Not exactly the same as this, but men have something very, very similar. That is, that whenever a man disagrees with the Hive Mind, he's called "gay" and a "******."
Example: "That's quite a nice dress, although it is a bit short..."
"Wow, dude, you're such a ******. Didn't know you lick dicks in your ass hole so much."
Cue "[your name here] likes cocks!" at every single chance they get.
Edit: Also, don't know about the rest of you, but seeing the people who heckled you and beat you up claim to be what they heckled you and beat you up for being makes my fucking blood boil.
Edit 2:
ClockworkPenguin said:
I know next to nothing about music or football, and have often been trapped in conversations about them where it was increasingly apparent that I was going to be found out (like when I didn't know the name of the top striker for the team I nominally support), and you know what happened when I was? nothing they where fine with it.
Well, Vista *shudder* came out in 2006, although I do appreciate that schools tend to be both conservative and infrequent when it comes to IT procurement. I'm not at all sure why figuring out how to get to text shell somehow makes one a "fake" geek though. Besides, if you're so many years out of school , why are examples from such a long time ago even relevant to this thread? Still bitter about "fake" geeks from your schooldays? Insecure?
Because when your friends are saying stuff that an actual CS will laugh at thinking 'the naive fools" (such as thinking that the ASP.NET user is an admin account created by the admins themselves that they can try and change the password to, and then start making 'scripts' to use as a virus, which is just totally wrong) and then when I tell them that what they're doing is both impossible and stupid, I'm told to shut up because I apparently don't know anything, which is hardly fair.
Where it's relevant to me is probably something I should've explained in my first post. When I see that 'fake geek girl' meme, I see it as a 'fake geek culture'. I have nothing wrong with girls being geeks, I don't prejudice in that way. I treat it as all people are non-geeks until proven otherwise, because of what I've experienced. I've been laid into for years now because I'm a total geek (I play games constantly, I study computer science, I play Magic etc.). But then when, for instance, The Big Bang Theory became fairly popular over here people were all 'aww yeah geeks are cool', 'Sheldon Cooper is so funny' 'yeah, I'm a geek', and granted that while Sheldon Cooper is pretty damn funny, they start saying they like and are part of geek culture and associate it with that. They then say that they like being geeky and you end up with that 'ironic geek' fashion culture.
But when something comes up and my 'geekiness' becomes a topic of discussion, I'm then shunned, because 'All geeks are Sheldon Cooper', introverted, socially incompetent weirdos who obsess about games and comics and etc. over everything else. This then makes them think that all actual geeks are like that and reinforces this false and fairly insulting stereotype. What a lot of these people don't realise is that your average geek doesn't usually look like your 'average geek', they're just normal people who happen to be interested in geeky stuff. I was at a friend's wedding reception the other night and I was talking to one of my friends there about various geeky subjects (the technology of id games, why UT2004 was such a competitive game and how UT3 got rid of it all, the 'controversy' of Windows 8 (not) going to be locked down, those sort of things). Now, this guy says he's been gaming for years and loves studying and doing computer science and all that stuff, and yet when you look at him, he's a smart looking guy, he's got an attractive girlfriend and his life's perfectly normal. Another example, when I started going to Friday Night Magic in my hometown, everyone there just seemed like normal people who happen to play Magic. A further example, one of my friends who I lived with in halls of residence at uni is a total gamer and techie, and he's also a well-built MMA fighter who's heavily invested in the sport.
DO you see what I'm getting at? The reason this meme gets to me is because I know many people who are like it, and they help reenforce the stereotype that we've got to live with.
That is true, however science fiction actually needs (OK, some of the needs, at least) new technology, unavailable at the moment, and some results of using it. Often it's also set in the future with large-ish changes to the world and/or the governing bodies. Firefly covers all this - new technology, changes brought tot he world, political shifts. Hence it's science fiction. As AdumbroDeus said, you're talking about the difference between hard and soft sci-fi, not between "sci-fi" and "not sci-fi". By comparison, it's like saying that a green apple is different to a red apple - while true, the both are still apples.
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and 1984 are science fiction, too, as much as cyberpunk and space operas.
So in conclusion i have to say this is not an attack on women, its an atack on people who are pretenders, social leeches who have latched on to our chosen fandoms.
i agree to this.
Right now in Japan, geeky is cool, and in many fashion magazines, "cool" people mention how they also like "geeky" things just so that they sound "cool". ( does that make sense?)
kinda like, "look at me, i m so fashionable, cool, and get laid all the time but still understand geeky things which makes me eclectic and openminded".
Those type of people are getting bashed by the "real geeks", in a similar way the girl geeks are elsewhere.
I guess the bottom line is that geeky people dont like half ass geeks.
[quote/]that an attack on the fake female geek is considered an attack on women, rather then on fake geeks.[/quote]
and this is the grey area...somone who was "obviously faking it" I would find grating on some level...but the fact is its an unfortunate sterotype that previls that girls dont like such things
and much like women being judges on their looks first and foremost in society, in some cases a womens "legitimacy" will come under question simply because shes female...which is just really fucking annoying/tired after a while
[quote/]I'm sorry it has come to this, but the fact is that essentially everyone who calls themself a gamer girl is not a gamer. If you were a gamer, you'd call yourself a gamer, not a gamer girl. Gamer girl is code for "not really a gamer."[/quote]
not sure I'd call myself a "girl gamer" but you might want to be careful there..some just might weather on purpose or otherwise...you can;t speak definitivly for everyone
[quote/]The fact is that if women do get "geek checked" more often then guys (which i doubt), its because women predominately wanted nothing to do with geeky things until geek suddenly became chic.An now that geekyness is trending, a large amount of pretenders of the fairer sex have shown up to cash in. This kind of social manipulation is common whenever something new becomes popular, the only real difference is that we are the first group self aware enough to notice.[/quote]
not our problem....besides, "legitimacy" is really not somthing people should dwell on, yet somtimes do
[quote/]So yeah, if a guy geek checks you, geek check him right on back. An if you can't then chances are you are a pretender.[/quote]
this is my problem right here....standards differ, I fucking hate Tolkein and have barely seen any Anime..yet I could talk all day about the latest games (but not retro ones) where does the line get drawn? do I not get a club pass because I havnt seen the starwars films?
[quote/]An if you happen to be a newbie who is interested in testing the waters & maybe getting in to something geeky, thats 100% cool, just don't pretend to be one of us yet.[/quote]
yeah...what the fuck is that? you make it sound like a game/cult..I;d say if somone is [b/]genuine[/b] then thats all is needed...you know if you want to hink about it that way
[quote/]Geek culture is a culture of shared battles & an even longer shared history, you wouldn't pretend to be a supporter of a football team after watching a single football game, so why do you think it'd fly with us?[/quote]
so is there like gang initiation and tatoos and stuff?..seriously...
[quote/]So in conclusion i have to say this is not an attack on women, its an atack on people who are pretenders, social leeches who have latched on to our chosen fandoms.[/quote]
this is my problem right here....standards differ, I fucking hate Tolkein and have barely seen any Anime..yet I could talk all day about the latest games (but not retro ones) where does the line get drawn? do I not get a club pass because I havnt seen the starwars films?[/quote]
Yes, this really annoys me too. The reason why I prefer to not call myself a geek - I can go at lengths about World of Darkness - from the setting, to the mechanics and how both interact or whatever. I can also go at length about Legacy of Kain - theories, observations, explanations related to the story (it has timetravel in it. It's complicated stuff). I guess one can call me a geek based on these. But I'm not really the same as a Star Trek fan. I have very little knowledge about, say, Marvel heroes. So, one could also call a trekkie comic book fan a "geek", too and yet me and them would have nothing in common, really.
"Rage on Nerds -- Here to Stay".
-If she's a 'nerd' then jolly good, no one should be raging. But if she's revelling in the notoriety then no, I don't think she will be 'here to stay'. I think that's the exact opposite of what the behaviour pattern will be. The quintessential 'Booth Babe' is not going to be in line for the midnight screening of Star Wars or archiving pristine Maxx comics or any other activity that doesn't involve showboating.
On guys: I find the opposite more often than not. I don't think I've ever come across as a guy masquerading as a 'nerd'. I've met a ton of guys who are closet gamers though. Video games, comics, tabletop games, D&D, M:tG, etc. They want to live the pop life while secretly enjoying nerdy pursuits.
I think the very fact that you are using that picture invalidates whatever argument you are trying to make. I know girls who are "nerdy" "geeky" etc.
They don't look or dress in that manner. Nor do they adhere to the stereotypes personified by the girl in that picture.
this is my problem right here....standards differ, I fucking hate Tolkein and have barely seen any Anime..yet I could talk all day about the latest games (but not retro ones) where does the line get drawn? do I not get a club pass because I havnt seen the starwars films?
Yes, this really annoys me too. The reason why I prefer to not call myself a geek - I can go at lengths about World of Darkness - from the setting, to the mechanics and how both interact or whatever. I can also go at length about Legacy of Kain - theories, observations, explanations related to the story (it has timetravel in it. It's complicated stuff). I guess one can call me a geek based on these. But I'm not really the same as a Star Trek fan. I have very little knowledge about, say, Marvel heroes. So, one could also call a trekkie comic book fan a "geek", too and yet me and them would have nothing in common, really.
You are a geek htough. Doesn't matter which part of fandom you self identify with, your knowledge plus you enthisiasm makes you a geek. Doesn't really matter how you self identify.[/quote]
Yes, I am. I did say it before, I'd agree if somebody else called me one, however I wouldn't say anything of the sort of "I am a geek" because it's mostly meaningless. It only says that I have deeper interest in some non-mainstream hobby. I'd much prefer to say where exactly my interests lie - roleplaying games, video games, etc, otherwise what's the point? It's much like saying "I'm from " - sure it gives some information about you, but you are not the same as the rest of your fellow countrymen. Take, say, two Canadians and they may have nothing common to talk about. Take two people interested in, say, Star Trek, and it doesn't really matter that one is from Germany, the other from Australia.
"Rage on Nerds -- Here to Stay".
-If she's a 'nerd' then jolly good, no one should be raging. But if she's revelling in the notoriety then no, I don't think she will be 'here to stay'. I think that's the exact opposite of what the behaviour pattern will be. The quintessential 'Booth Babe' is not going to be in line for the midnight screening of Star Wars or archiving pristine Maxx comics or any other activity that doesn't involve showboating.
Seriously, all the posts in all the threads created about this stuff... you ever seen a guy say he's super excited to have ladies near even if they give less than a fuck about gaming?
Cause I haven't.
Nor have I ever recieved notoriety (the good kind, which I assume you mean) for being a lady.
I mean, I've gotten shit for it.
My point is... if I had ever wanted attention for being a girl, I would not go to the nerd community. I know they've got such stunning examples of malehood, but I'm more likely to get a positive response pretty much anywhere else.
I see the `here to stay` thing more about people who don't want girls in `their` hobby (and sadly those people are around).
I've never experienced it myself, though i have had a marriage proposal already over ME3 multiplayer (hmmm...). there are some truly nerdy girls as there are truly nerdy men, (we really do exist fellas!) just as there are pretenders in both genders. I think girls cop more flack for it because we are getting pushed into the spotlight recently (male nerdiness is a long established thing)
You know, as one who wears their reproductive organs on the inside, I've never really had any issues with this. Although, usually, to prove my "nerd cred," I just join in on whatever conversation is going on with topical information (listening to someone talk League of Legends and saying "omg, I luv LoL!" instead of "omg, get your head out of your butt, Kayle is a totally awesome champ" just seems awkward anyway...). I guess if people are silently judging me, I'll never know, but from personal experience, those who are silently judging and dismissing you for your gender aren't usually the humans I want to be talking with anyway...
Yes, yes, another F&*£@%?#^ thread about gender! Turn away now for the sake of your own sanity.
I read an article on The Mary Sue this morning which made me wonder...
http://www.themarysue.com/geek-girl-meme/#0
The main idea boils down to this: "...the persisting idea that tells people it's ok to nastily call women out for not being 'authentically geeky' enough. It's basically the idea that you can use that old middle school tactic of calling people 'posers' because they don't adhere to your own particular rules as to what qualifies a 'geek'..."
Is there a male equivalent of this phenomenon? Obviously I've only ever experienced the geek gatekeeper horror from the female side - Do guys ever get quizzed about their geek cred before they're accepted as a 'true' geek? Are there some geek circles which are as hostile to newbie males as they are to females?
I'm interested from a 'I want to know more about why this happens in geek culture' standpoint more than a 'AAAAAAAA MEN ARE OPPRESSING ME!' one, so if we can get through this conversation without it devolving into a whiny argument about which gender whines the most I think we'd all be very happy (Ah, impossible dreams...).
EDIT: 2nd option should read 'No, but only because men don't enter geek culture just to get attention like some women do'
The short answer is that pretty much every clique or group out there has it's gatekeepers, and boys run into them all the time. What's unusual is that we're seeing girls QQing about it, with the general attitude seeming to be that it's wrong for them to go through this kind of thing just because they are girls. There is also the perception that geek peer groups are open to everyone, when that isn't really true.
There are also a few points to consider.
#1: ... and perhaps the only truely gender related issue here is simply that geeks and nerds are by their nature used to being exploited, and having girls not wanting to have anything to do with them. Unlike movies, the nerd does NOT usually wind up with the girl even hanging out with them. The exception is typically when a girl wants something, and nerds are allegedly easy for girls to exploit due to their famous lack of female attention. As such approaching a group like this tend to involve a lot of suspician and paranoia.
#2: Nerds and Geeks are not a clique you "join" and generally approach/show up in the same area as, and hope for acceptance and to eventually go from the backround to one of the guys. They tend to exist due to universal rejection by everyone else, the interests geeks and nerds share being ones that have taken to an extreme that the rest of the social order wants nothing to do with them.
See, liking Star Trek, Comics, etc... does not make one a nerd, it's when it goes to the point of obsession to you not fitting in.
A lot of girls claiming to be nerds don't get this, not being "nerdy enough", something that is transparent enough by being accepted by other groups. If your not an outcast your not a real nerd of geek.
These rebuttal pictures, and videos like "Geek and Gamer Girls" (Team Unicorn I think they were called) seem to miss the point entirely, girls that can fit in with the rest of society are not going to be TRUE nerds. Your average member of a lot of the known "pro-girl geek" groups wouldn't be laughed out of a nightclub just on apperances sake, and guys would be willin to endure that for apperance along. They by definition (fair or not) are accepted on a level that prevents nerd dom.
Not to mention the simple fact that a girl who is at least average or above doing the "geek" thing is again going to merit a "what are you trying to get out of me?" response. Kind of what's influanced the "Frag Dolls" to an extent, given that they exist largely to sell Ubisoft products to nerds, and thus to many wound up filling the same basic niche of booth babes or one of the models standing around awkwardly at the SPIKE Video Game Awards for a paycheck, when your dealing with a target audience that is used to being burned socially, they aren't easy to fool or sell, and actually begin to expect it when it's not present.
On a lot of levels I feel for girls who have these kinds of interests and are looking for people to share them with, but at the same time you have to understand where these barriers are coming from. It's not due to misogynism per se. Especially on the social front, if some guy like a school Football quaterback wanted to play AD&D with you or chat about anime you'd be a bit suspicious, and in school be expecting "oh hey, can you helpme with my homework" or "can you cover for me?".
I'll also say (like some others) that nerds and geeks are NOT all accepting either, there are outcasts within the outcast community, if you read things like "Encyclopedia Dramatica" that should be obvious, as well as just noticing the general reaction to furries, bronies, and those with bizzare, fantasy-based sex fetishes. You as a geek probably know what Vor or Guro are for example, but now consider your reaction to people who pretty much live that obsession, if your not part of that group, even if you count as a geek, you probably tend to keep too much of it out of your social circle.
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