Poll: Father in rural Germany finds his young son likes to wear dresses; does the same to show solidarity.

[miketehmage]

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To clear things up, I couldn't give less of a shit about what that little boy wears, but the reality is we don't live in a perfect world and most people aren't as accepting as the people on this website.

So for their own sake "Boys shouldn't wear dresses" - To quote my earlier post.

Why?

Because it leads to shit.

And to the person saying that all kids will tease each other, yes I agree but what kind of parent gives them ammunition?

EDIT: Also am I the only one that thinks it's nice that there is some gender specific clothing? A woman in a nice dress is just a nice thing to see. As is a man in a suave suit.

EDIT 2: Also, A kilt IS NOT a dress. And I would be far more approving of a kilt. The skirt of men.

 

[Fwee]

I was just telling a couple female friends how jealous I am of their dresses. I wish I was allowed to wear something so comfortable-looking during such a hot summer.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

While i find this kilt talk very manly id love to point out: Kids dont give a fuck. Hes like 5? The kids at school would see a kilt the same as a skirt. They dont have the culture making a HUGE difference between the two until the are much older. They will see a skirt. And treat them the exact same.

 

[Rascarin]

It would be deeply saddening if his mother was raising him to become the type of man who wears dresses. Although, this is outside the realm of possibility since she despises effeminacy in males as much as I do.

Effeminate males? You mean gay men? You realise that thats just how they are born, and it has exactly nothing to do with what clothes you put them in.

And as for your earlier comment about "men being men and women being women", I'm going to guess you've never spoken to a trans person in your life. People are people. Men can be women. Women can be men. We are not binary.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

"Son. Be glad you're pretty enough to wear them, unlike your unlucky caveman of a father."
Edit: Also, Kits are awesome. I'd probably encourage him to wear a kilt instead so that he'd be all badass and shit. And then slowly but surely make him dress like a kilted punk by the time he's a teen. What.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

The kilt has a long storied cultural history of being worn by rough living, sheep stealing, claymore wielding bearded Scotsmen. The menswear of Imperial Rome and Hellenic Greece are associated with the high points of European antiquity.

What exactly are the wider cultural implications of an ankle length red dress with spaghetti straps? And why publish a picture of the boy wearing that particular garment over pretty much anything that could have been chosen over all the possible types, styles, cuts, patterns and colours that would've been equally valid choices had the child been given real choice in what to wear?

At this stage the parents are being no more abusive than any other parents who try to live vicariously through their children. But it's about thirty year too early to tell whether or not Germany should crown him their father of the year.

 

[JeffBergGold]

It would be deeply saddening if his mother was raising him to become the type of man who wears dresses. Although, this is outside the realm of possibility since she despises effeminacy in males as much as I do.

Effeminate males? You mean gay men? You realise that thats just how they are born, and it has exactly nothing to do with what clothes you put them in.

And as for your earlier comment about "men being men and women being women", I'm going to guess you've never spoken to a trans person in your life. People are people. Men can be women. Women can be men. We are not binary.

No, I don't mean gay men. A male can be gay without being effeminate.

 

[CMDDarkblade]

It would be deeply saddening if his mother was raising him to become the type of man who wears dresses. Although, this is outside the realm of possibility since she despises effeminacy in males as much as I do.

Effeminate males? You mean gay men? You realise that thats just how they are born, and it has exactly nothing to do with what clothes you put them in.

And as for your earlier comment about "men being men and women being women", I'm going to guess you've never spoken to a trans person in your life. People are people. Men can be women. Women can be men. We are not binary.

If he is referring to gay men then I suppose I am obligated to be at least slightly offended, but I'll deal with that later. Anyways, while it is indeed possible that there are more than two genders and gender roles and those are social constructions. Biological sex is indeed binary if at the very least in terms of human chromosomal sex: we have an "X" chromosome for female but if a "Y" chromosome is introduced then it is male, but as far as I know a "Z" chromosome that denotes a third sex does not exist.

 

[Phasmal]

It would be deeply saddening if his mother was raising him to become the type of man who wears dresses. Although, this is outside the realm of possibility since she despises effeminacy in males as much as I do.

Effeminate males? You mean gay men? You realise that thats just how they are born, and it has exactly nothing to do with what clothes you put them in.

And as for your earlier comment about "men being men and women being women", I'm going to guess you've never spoken to a trans person in your life. People are people. Men can be women. Women can be men. We are not binary.

If he is referring to gay men then I suppose I am obligated to be at least slightly offended, but I'll deal with that later. Anyways, while it is indeed possible that there are more than two genders and gender roles and those are social constructions. Biological sex is indeed binary if at the very least in terms of chromosomal sex: we have an "X" chromosome for female but if a "Y" chromosome is introduced then it is male, but as far as I know a "Z" chromosome that denotes a third sex does not exist.

Are you forgetting intersex people?
People with XXY?
People being born intersex or with ambiguious genitals is not that uncommon. Wikipedia says 1% of live births.

 

[Rascarin]

If he is referring to gay men then I suppose I am obligated to be at least slightly offended, but I'll deal with that later. Anyways, while it is indeed possible that there are more than two genders and gender roles and those are social constructions. Biological sex is indeed binary if at the very least in terms of chromosomal sex: we have an "X" chromosome for female but if a "Y" chromosome is introduced then it is male, but as far as I know a "Z" chromosome that denotes a third sex does not exist.

Actually, there are more than two sexes. Classic XX and XY. There's also YY, XXY, XXX, XXYY, XO...

This page also goes into some detail on the different physical and mental manifestations of sex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

Obviously, yes in "normal" (and i hate using that word) circumstances you only get the classic two. But neither sex or gender are binary. I know a woman who is XO, and my fiance is trans, as well as having several other trans friends. Gender and sex binaries and their enforcement are harmful.

 

[CMDDarkblade]

If he is referring to gay men then I suppose I am obligated to be at least slightly offended, but I'll deal with that later. Anyways, while it is indeed possible that there are more than two genders and gender roles and those are social constructions. Biological sex is indeed binary if at the very least in terms of chromosomal sex: we have an "X" chromosome for female but if a "Y" chromosome is introduced then it is male, but as far as I know a "Z" chromosome that denotes a third sex does not exist.

Are you forgetting intersex people?
People with XXY?
People being born intersex or with ambiguious genitals is not that uncommon. Wikipedia says 1% of live births.

Yes, but that is still using the same two sex chromosomes. It doesn't matter what combination of "X"s and "Y"s a person has, a person is biologically female only if they have a "X" chromosome and nothing else. A person that has an "Y" chromosome is biologically male no matter how many "X" chromosomes they have. Therefore, the third sex would be someone who has a "Z" chromosome no matter how "X" or "Y" chromosomes they have.

 

[CMDDarkblade]

Actually, there are more than two sexes. Classic XX and XY. There's also YY, XXY, XXX, XXYY, XO...

This page also goes into some detail on the different physical and mental manifestations of sex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

Obviously, yes in "normal" (and i hate using that word) circumstances you only get the classic two. But neither sex or gender are binary. I know a woman who is XO, and my fiance is trans, as well as having several other trans friends. Gender and sex binaries and their enforcement are harmful.

I'm aware that there are different combinations of "X" and "Y" and that the phenotype expression can get mutated resulting in intersex people, but intersex people are still between two biological sexes on a spectrum. A true third sex (and I don't mean to use that term pejoratively or to dehumanize intersex people) needs a unique third chromosome: "Z", "W", "V", whatever it's called, in addition to "X" and "Y" to make a distinct third sex that can be clearly identified along side male and female.

 

[NemotheElvenPanda]

How is being effeminate a bad thing in the first place? So some guys like pretty things and are genuinely demure, so what? How's that anyone else's issue?

 

[JeffBergGold]

I don't see a connection between those things. How does putting on a dress make you a woman, and how can you achieve a balance by rigidly enforcing different clothing for another gender?

I never stated putting on a dress makes one a woman. Men who have a desire to wear female clothing are usually effeminate.

Heck, latin dancing shoes for men often have heels.

Boots also have heels. I never equivocated heels to dresses.

Do you have any idea how sexy women find it when you're good enough to purchase dedicated shoes for it?

Appeal to approval? Maybe for a shoe fetishist most women dont find male dance shoe purchases sexually arousing.

Same for my sport. Kickboxing shorts are wide as can be,

I find it strange you can equivocate wide shorts to a dress. Please don't be upset if I dismiss this comparison.

only slightly bifurcated but for the rest identical to a skirt

As a person who has participated in kickboxing and worn kickboxing shorts I can confirm this is a blatant untruth.

to provide you with as much movement space as possible because tight shorts don't work for midkicks and highkicks.

Also a blatant untruth. I've seen everything from roundhouses to sbk's delivered in restrictive clothing.

Does that make the sport feminine?

Does what make the sport feminine? Between the red herrings strawmen and logical leaps I kinda got lost on how you came to this conclusion. Can you clarify for me?

 

[Froggy Slayer]

If he is referring to gay men then I suppose I am obligated to be at least slightly offended, but I'll deal with that later. Anyways, while it is indeed possible that there are more than two genders and gender roles and those are social constructions. Biological sex is indeed binary if at the very least in terms of chromosomal sex: we have an "X" chromosome for female but if a "Y" chromosome is introduced then it is male, but as far as I know a "Z" chromosome that denotes a third sex does not exist.

Actually, there are more than two sexes. Classic XX and XY. There's also YY, XXY, XXX, XXYY, XO...

This page also goes into some detail on the different physical and mental manifestations of sex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

Obviously, yes in "normal" (and i hate using that word) circumstances you only get the classic two. But neither sex or gender are binary. I know a woman who is XO, and my fiance is trans, as well as having several other trans friends. Gender and sex binaries and their enforcement are harmful.

I followed the link, and I now know what a pegina looks like. Kind of like the ovipositor from a facehugger, if anyone is wondering; probably where Giger got the inspiration.

Oh, and you shouldn't be so leery about using the term 'normal'. Having definite male or female genitalia is the norm, just as heterosexuality is the norm. Does that mean that intersex people or homosexuals should be persecuted for their abnormality? Hell no! It makes you different, and as they say, variety is the spice of life.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

If he is referring to gay men then I suppose I am obligated to be at least slightly offended, but I'll deal with that later. Anyways, while it is indeed possible that there are more than two genders and gender roles and those are social constructions. Biological sex is indeed binary if at the very least in terms of chromosomal sex: we have an "X" chromosome for female but if a "Y" chromosome is introduced then it is male, but as far as I know a "Z" chromosome that denotes a third sex does not exist.

Actually, there are more than two sexes. Classic XX and XY. There's also YY, XXY, XXX, XXYY, XO...

This page also goes into some detail on the different physical and mental manifestations of sex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

Obviously, yes in "normal" (and i hate using that word) circumstances you only get the classic two. But neither sex or gender are binary. I know a woman who is XO, and my fiance is trans, as well as having several other trans friends. Gender and sex binaries and their enforcement are harmful.

There may all be variations of XX and XY but there are still only men and women, unless you know of a third group of humans that have neither a penis or vagina and reproduce sexually or asexually

 

[Rainboq]

No way in hell would I let my son do that. Let it be known that I respect this man and what he is doing for his son. I just wouldn't do it personally. My son doesn't even have access to a dress. At least I would hope he doesn't.

Why wouldn't you want that? If you don't mind me asking.

Because I'm for men being men and women being women. There are enough effeminate males already, there needs to be a balance.

So you're for the upholding of the traditional, arbitrary gender boundaries? Why?

 

[JeffBergGold]

No way in hell would I let my son do that. Let it be known that I respect this man and what he is doing for his son. I just wouldn't do it personally. My son doesn't even have access to a dress. At least I would hope he doesn't.

Why wouldn't you want that? If you don't mind me asking.

Because I'm for men being men and women being women. There are enough effeminate males already, there needs to be a balance.

So you're for the upholding of the traditional, arbitrary gender boundaries? Why?

I believe the sexes are equal but different.