Poll: Female protagonist day.

[CloudAtlas]

Yet in spite of them, in spite of numbers, in spite of trends, in spite of market predictions presumptions and assumptions, games that expand the boundaries, games that challenge social norms, games like journey, bayonetta, lollipop chainsaw, limbo, tomb raider, mass effect 3, dragon age, dragon age 2, Spec ops the line, FTL and innumerable other titles out there still get made and still buck trends in spite of that.

Which kind of trend do Bayonetta and Lollipop Chainsaw "buck"?

Enlighten me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the very thing feminists are fighting against? Being treat differently? A day devoted to cater to female gamers with female protagonists seems like a thing they'd be very much against. I might be wrong, in fact I probably am. But I always saw feminism as an ideal to be treat the same as men, so unless we have some "Male protagonist day", this seems to be pretty backward for the goals of that fight, if my knowledge stands true.

I can't speak for actual feminists, but since I'm apparently some kind of gaming feminist, perhaps I'm qualified enough to make a comment. No, I don't think you are wrong. I also fail to see what purpose such a day would actually serve. It reminds me at "Girl's Days" for science and engineering professions (and correspondingly, "Boy's Days"). Those days are a good thing, I think, but what would be the analogy here? To make publishers aware that female gamers exist and they'd be just as happy to be catered to as the guys are? I'm pretty sure they know that.

I believe there are plenty of other ways that require equally little effort but lead to better results in making games more appealing to women.

And, yea, I agree with Morgan Freeman as well.

 

[Esotera]

Great idea, but will there actually be enough games available that people haven't already bought featuring female protagonists? The only single game I own that has a good female character in it is Half Life 2, and Alex isn't exactly an outstanding example. As someone stated in another thread, she's the bare minimum in what should be expected in a character of any gender.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Not a chance. I don't need a special day to throw games with female protagonists a bone like they're paraplegics competing in a foot race. When a game comes out that looks interesting, I try to buy it. End of story. I'm more likely to think that a game looks interesting if it has a protagonist who is in some way non-standard, so there are actually a fair number of games with female protagonists sitting on my shelf and I have two more pre-ordered. Contrary to popular belief, being a white, heterosexual American male with short brown hair does not mean that I want to fantasize about being yet another generic muscular white dude with no interesting character traits.

If you want a 'female protagonist' day that would mean anything, make it a day for releasing new ports of old games with female protagonists that everyone's forgotten about (I will never get angry at anyone who re-releases Mischief Makers).

 

[itsthesheppy]

Really, the fact that there is so much pushback against what is, really, an incredibly innocuous idea just belies how really not-okay we are, as a culture, with the whole gender thing. Talk about 'doth protesting too much'.

"A day focusing on female characters? Why do we need that? Huh? Why not celebrating EVERYONE, if you want equality?! Huh?! I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WOMEN! I SEE EVERYONE AS EQUAL! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!"

Calm down, guys. It's as if we pointed out that your hair looks like a toupee. You can either shrug your shoulders, or you can go on a three-paragraph rant about how ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS the suggestion was to make, OF COURSE ITS NOT A TOUPEE, I'D NEVER WEAR ONE, AAAAAH!, whereupon I'd be convinced beyond all doubt that it's a toupee.

 

[DoPo]

Calm down, guys. It's as if we pointed out that your hair looks like a toupee. You can either shrug your shoulders, or you can go on a three-paragraph rant about how ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS the suggestion was to make

I find it funny because 1. you're one of the few people who actually wrote three paragraphs and 2. nobody has spent the time and effort ranting like you suggest people are doing.

 

[itsthesheppy]

Calm down, guys. It's as if we pointed out that your hair looks like a toupee. You can either shrug your shoulders, or you can go on a three-paragraph rant about how ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS the suggestion was to make

I find it funny because 1. you're one of the few people who actually wrote three paragraphs and 2. nobody has spent the time and effort ranting like you suggest people are doing.

I find this funny because your face.

No seriously though, you should be able to see it. This is how it starts, every time. Here comes the tidal wave of anti-feminism nonsense trotted out by people calling themselves "equalists" and so forth. It just makes me loopy because honestly, if you don't wanna participate in something like that, just ignore the thread. It drops to the third or fourth page and evaporates into eternal obscurity. But when everyone excitedly piles on to make absolutely sure that they think the idea is really stupid I can't help but feel that there's a hidden motivator at work.

 

[Coppernerves]

Designating female protagonist day would do nothing, as it would be solidified as an exception alongside the 364 day status quo of male protagonists. If you want to make a statement with your wallet, then buy quality games with female protagonists whenever you find them and let market forces do their thing.

Also, how did Dragon Age or FTL challenge social conventions?

Also this ad is assuring me that I'm the 999,999th visitor to this page...from a town of 30,000. Good try, ad.

This is the most awesome post by someone with a white wolf for their avatar that I've ever seen.

 

[DoPo]

But when everyone excitedly piles on to make absolutely sure that they think the idea is really stupid I can't help but feel that there's a hidden motivator at work.

Where did you see "everybody" piling to...do what you said there? There are just short of 30 responses so far, from just over 20 people in total. And not even the majority are what you described.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Calm down, guys. It's as if we pointed out that your hair looks like a toupee. You can either shrug your shoulders, or you can go on a three-paragraph rant about how ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS the suggestion was to make

I find it funny because 1. you're one of the few people who actually wrote three paragraphs and 2. nobody has spent the time and effort ranting like you suggest people are doing.

I find this funny because your face.

No seriously though, you should be able to see it. This is how it starts, every time. Here comes the tidal wave of anti-feminism nonsense trotted out by people calling themselves "equalists" and so forth. It just makes me loopy because honestly, if you don't wanna participate in something like that, just ignore the thread. It drops to the third or fourth page and evaporates into eternal obscurity. But when everyone excitedly piles on to make absolutely sure that they think the idea is really stupid I can't help but feel that there's a hidden motivator at work.

Why wait for any of this to actually happen when you can be morally-indignant now, right!?

I don't think the thread was made for people who like the idea to pat themselves on the back in the knowledge that the idea is awesome. There is a bloody poll after-all asking the question "is this a good idea?"

OT: I'm fairly indifferent to the idea. I bet developers would love it though.

 

[Lilani]

Enlighten me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the very thing feminists are fighting against? Being treat differently? A day devoted to cater to female gamers with female protagonists seems like a thing they'd be very much against. I might be wrong, in fact I probably am. But I always saw feminism as an ideal to be treat the same as men, so unless we have some "Male protagonist day", this seems to be pretty backward for the goals of that fight, if my knowledge stands true.

And that is the rub with a lot of issues with minorities these days. Schools and organizations and the like draw a lot of attention to things like Black History Month and Women's History Month and the like, purporting them to be evidence that black people and women are gaining the recognition they deserve these days. And it's true: they force us to think about the noteworthy events regarding black people and women that we might not normally go over in school curriculum.

But here's the thing: If there's a feeling there aren't enough women and black people in our normal history curriculum, then why don't we just fix our curriculum? There's a video on YouTube where Morgan Freeman speaks about black history month. He says that he doesn't want it, and that black history is American history. And I'm with him. The media is prone to doing things like this as well. Movies like Remember the Titans and The Blind Side are touted as signs that we are "so over" racism and sexism, because we make these movies that show women and black people succeeding regardless of their starting position or environment.

However, most movies that come out these days are still have a young, white male as the lead actor. It seems young white male is the "default" setting for a main character in a movie, and they only bother rolling out the minorities or the women is once they start needing to fill in the colors of their political-correctness rainbow with some token characters, or when the movie is exclusively about women being women or black people being black. It is rare to see a movie with a non-white or female lead that doesn't have to be non-white or female. Like, imagine if Battleship was lead by a black guy instead of a white guy, or if Dear John was about a hispanic couple. As far as I can tell, neither of these changes would change anything about what happens in those films. So what's the deal? If we're "so over" racism and sexism, then why is the media still so afraid of showing us some non-white people in charge for a change? Or afraid of having a movie about a woman that isn't about female-specific problems (chasing guys, fighting sexism, motherhood, etc).

These big events that we do to try and eliminate racism and sexism and whatever other -isms are holding us back are doing more to illustrate exactly why we aren't over these things yet. The longer we continue to pretend being black or hispanic or female is a big fucking deal, the longer society will view it as a big fucking deal, and the longer it will take us to be "over" it once and for all. I'm not saying we should become colorblind and stop owning our identities and heritage, however your identity and heritage should be something you celebrate and exemplify every day. Not something you shove into a month so that the people who don't share your identity or heritage feel less guilty.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

How about we have "Well-written protagonist day" instead? I guarantee you that with better written protagonists, and antagonists, will come more women characters. Trying to divide the existence of characters by "male" and "female" rather than "poorly written" and "well-written" is idiotic.

Personally, I'm not buying Amy just because the protagonist is female, and I'm not buying Beyond Good and Evil because the protagonist is female. I'm refusing to buy Amy because its shit, and I'm all over Beyond Good and Evil because its a fantastic game. If a publisher and/or developer want to focus on only male protagonists because they don't think women can be in games, then so be it, it'll be on them, and I'll vote with my wallet. Plenty of people seem to be doing that already with Bioshock Infinite, among others.

I would totally get behind "Well-written protagonist day!"

The trouble is well-written protagonists are as rare as hell, someone should do something about it.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

No, for a few reasons.

1. I do not want to incentivise the creation of games with female protagonists to the point where a female protagonist is used for financial reasons, in the same way male protagonists are used currently in order to not confuse or upset the supposedly fragile audience. There should be no advantage either way and the character should fit with the game. This of course will not happen from a few people buying games deliberately as opposed to the entire consumer base doing what they always do, but that is the principle behind my disagreement.

2. Games with female protagonists do not universally have good female protagonists. I would rather support a game with a well-thought-out male protagonist than a shallow eye candy female one. Also, I do not want to discriminate against games in which there are good female NPCs, but still male protagonists.

3. Not everyone can simply buy a game for ideological reasons. Especially those given to buying from retailers. This idea has a high barrier to entry in that games are not the cheapest things around and Valve is unlikely to put on a sale just for the participants.

4. For the same reason I despise superfluous and counterproductive events like womens' rights day, black history month, and if there were one I would also be against a white history month or mens' rights day (celebrated in Malta as I've just found out, thankfully I don't live there). It is human rights and history. Singular. We need to stop differentiating while we're trying to integrate.

In short: just buy games you want to see more of whenever you want, which is pretty much what you do anyway. I trust none of you deliberately buy shitty games just to support the industry or something.

 

[Yuuki]

This idea is even worse than Sony's G.I.R.L scholarship.

I want to play as a character who is well-written, their gender is completely irrelevant.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

Enlighten me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the very thing feminists are fighting against? Being treat differently? A day devoted to cater to female gamers with female protagonists seems like a thing they'd be very much against. I might be wrong, in fact I probably am. But I always saw feminism as an ideal to be treat the same as men, so unless we have some "Male protagonist day", this seems to be pretty backward for the goals of that fight, if my knowledge stands true.

I don't think this is 'about' the women in and of themselves or about treating them differently, but rather making a statement to publishers that the gaming community at large is more open to diversity than they appear to currently estimate, and that big-budget AAA games don't need to 'play it safe' with a gruff, 30-something, white, straight or sexually disinterested male on the cover to ensure a return on their investment. The point is that publishers are already treating women differently by seeing female protagonists as a risk by default, and something should be done to show them that this is based on assumptions that are inaccurate, so that eventually the scales will be balanced and a 'Female Protagonist Day' won't be needed.

Now, that's not to say I agree with the idea (I don't all things considered), I just don't think that was the point of what the OP was getting at.

OP: While I think your heart is in the right place, I don't see this working. What I see happening, were it to become a thing, is for publishers all to release only 1 game a year with a female protagonist, scheduled for release on 'Female Protagonist Day'. It would be less of a motivator for publishers to see women as just as appropriate for protagonists as men, and more of a 'Get Out of Jail Free' Card, where they can make the bare minimum of effort for the one day they'll know it will produce a big return for them, and call it "progress".

 

[Doclector]

EDIT: Screw it, I regretted this post as soon as I posted it, I just don't have the words right now to describe what I actually think without someone misinterpreting it and starting a massive shitstorm.

Bottom line, nice idea, but I just don't see it working right now.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

Oh good, a day dedicated to spending my money(which I might not have any) on a game I probably won't want, just because it has a female protagonist(not saying that I'm turned off by female protagonists, but imagine on this day when you're supposed to pick one up and the only options are some perverted game like X-Blades or some crappy game, money well spent!)

 

[chiefohara]

Really, the fact that there is so much pushback against what is, really, an incredibly innocuous idea just belies how really not-okay we are, as a culture, with the whole gender thing. Talk about 'doth protesting too much'.

"A day focusing on female characters? Why do we need that? Huh? Why not celebrating EVERYONE, if you want equality?! Huh?! I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WOMEN! I SEE EVERYONE AS EQUAL! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!"

Calm down, guys. It's as if we pointed out that your hair looks like a toupee. You can either shrug your shoulders, or you can go on a three-paragraph rant about how ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS the suggestion was to make, OF COURSE ITS NOT A TOUPEE, I'D NEVER WEAR ONE, AAAAAH!, whereupon I'd be convinced beyond all doubt that it's a toupee.

im surprised by the the amount of resistance to it as well.

Diversionary tactics have been nitpicking, taking it out of context, or extreme interpretation of whats there.

The way some people are posting you'd swear i was either making them buy a game at gunpoint, or deliberately trying to widen the chasm between male and female gamers.

I regret sharing the idea now.

 

[chiefohara]

Enlighten me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the very thing feminists are fighting against? Being treat differently? A day devoted to cater to female gamers with female protagonists seems like a thing they'd be very much against. I might be wrong, in fact I probably am. But I always saw feminism as an ideal to be treat the same as men, so unless we have some "Male protagonist day", this seems to be pretty backward for the goals of that fight, if my knowledge stands true.

I don't think this is 'about' the women in and of themselves or about treating them differently, but rather making a statement to publishers that the gaming community at large is more open to diversity than they appear to currently estimate, and that big-budget AAA games don't need to 'play it safe' with a gruff, 30-something, white, straight or sexually disinterested male on the cover to ensure a return on their investment. The point is that publishers are already treating women differently by seeing female protagonists as a risk by default, and something should be done to show them that this is based on assumptions that are inaccurate, so that eventually the scales will be balanced and a 'Female Protagonist Day' won't be needed.

Now, that's not to say I agree with the idea (I don't all things considered), I just don't think that was the point of what the OP was getting at.

OP: While I think your heart is in the right place, I don't see this working. What I see happening, were it to become a thing, is for publishers all to release only 1 game a year with a female protagonist, scheduled for release on 'Female Protagonist Day'. It would be less of a motivator for publishers to see women as just as appropriate for protagonists as men, and more of a 'Get Out of Jail Free' Card, where they can make the bare minimum of effort for the one day they'll know it will produce a big return for them, and call it "progress".

Fair enough, i guess you can't force a convention on a beast like the gaming industry without it doing its best to exploit it

 

[itsthesheppy]

Really, the fact that there is so much pushback against what is, really, an incredibly innocuous idea just belies how really not-okay we are, as a culture, with the whole gender thing. Talk about 'doth protesting too much'.

"A day focusing on female characters? Why do we need that? Huh? Why not celebrating EVERYONE, if you want equality?! Huh?! I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WOMEN! I SEE EVERYONE AS EQUAL! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!"

Calm down, guys. It's as if we pointed out that your hair looks like a toupee. You can either shrug your shoulders, or you can go on a three-paragraph rant about how ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS the suggestion was to make, OF COURSE ITS NOT A TOUPEE, I'D NEVER WEAR ONE, AAAAAH!, whereupon I'd be convinced beyond all doubt that it's a toupee.

im surprised by the the amount of resistance to it as well.

Diversionary tactics have been nitpicking, taking it out of context, or extreme interpretation of whats there.

The way some people are posting you'd swear i was either making them buy a game at gunpoint, or deliberately trying to widen the chasm between male and female gamers.

I regret sharing the idea now.

They piled on me too. It's okay buddy. You just erred in trying to suggest a little pro-woman stuff on a forum that, let's face facts here, has some serious problems with ladies. It's a gaming forum, though, and you can pretty much expect it anywhere.