Poll: Frankie Boyle challenged over Down's Syndrome joke
- Thread starter Crayzor
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This takes me back to something Jimmy Carr was talking about on a live show.
Something like racist jokes are fine because that's exactly what it is, a joke. Real racism isn't fine.
I suppose this is the same thing. If Frankie Boyle says something about downs syndrome and it's a joke then why should anyone be bothered.
I like how the people that complain probably don't even have downs syndrome.
Besides, Frankie's in the paper every week for 'insulting' some minority group, these people have to take into account that his jokes are mostly about how shit Scotland is.
Something like racist jokes are fine because that's exactly what it is, a joke. Real racism isn't fine.
I suppose this is the same thing. If Frankie Boyle says something about downs syndrome and it's a joke then why should anyone be bothered.
I like how the people that complain probably don't even have downs syndrome.
Besides, Frankie's in the paper every week for 'insulting' some minority group, these people have to take into account that his jokes are mostly about how shit Scotland is.
QFT.Liberaliter said:
And on a similar note, I have Autism and don't give two shits if people make Autistic jokes (Admittedly, Autism is usually not as serious as Down's, but I'm trying to make a point here)
theres one rule in censorship
either everythings fair game for comedy or nothing is, its all about time and location.
it would have been innappropriate or possibly offensive if he had chose to say this joke at say a disabilty benefit show but the fact his this was his show so if the woman was so offended, it is fairer for her to leave than him, as im sure she was in the minority and there is no reason why she would be obligated to stay.
either everythings fair game for comedy or nothing is, its all about time and location.
it would have been innappropriate or possibly offensive if he had chose to say this joke at say a disabilty benefit show but the fact his this was his show so if the woman was so offended, it is fairer for her to leave than him, as im sure she was in the minority and there is no reason why she would be obligated to stay.
He can say it all he wants. I'm familiar with the man, and I'm well within my rights to say I think he's a hateful ignorant douche.cuddly_tomato said:
However, there's one major difference between this "preacher" and comedians that some find offensive, like Boyle. This guys serious. I have no problem with people saying anything for comedic value, and I'm not about to say Phelps should be fined or something for saying this. But the reason I don't hate Boyle is because he was joking.
I don't believe either should be punished, because I like free speech. However, you asked for the difference, there it is. One's joking, one's serious.
Free Speech means you can say whatever you want. Even if other people take offence. If he actively encouraging any harm to come to people with Down's Syndrome? Nope. Is there any genuine malice behind his statement? I don't think.
But nope, HURR DURR WE MUST RESPEKT EVRY1 OMG YOU CAN'T CALL IT BAA BAA BLACK SHEEP ANYMORE THAT'S HOR-FENSIVE!1!11!
But nope, HURR DURR WE MUST RESPEKT EVRY1 OMG YOU CAN'T CALL IT BAA BAA BLACK SHEEP ANYMORE THAT'S HOR-FENSIVE!1!11!
I am a huge fan, ok, an obsessive fan of almost all comedy, from 1950s radio thru to people like Frankie Boyle, Jimmy Carr and many others. (I don't really 'get' silent comedy, even tho I understand there's a lot of skill and talent on display, it just doesn't really work for me.)
The above Joe brings up the issue of doing this kinda material at a disability gig, but Jimmy Carr was doing a benefit gig for wounded soldiers, and made the comment, based on the number of amputees in the audience that 'say what you like about the war, but we'll have a great paralympic team next time around.'
That line got so much media coverage for being offensive to 'our troops', yet the audience loved it, comedy actually including them and crafted specially for them, instead of being the usual show trawled out every night. I think the main problem seems to be that Boyle was doing lazy, schoolyard humour about Down's Syndrome kids, and if you're not being funny, then you're being offensive. My rule is that if you laughed, you've just ruled yourself out of being allowed to complain.
Now to me, Frankie Boyle and all stand up comedians have the right to say pretty much what the hell they like, when it's their stand up show, and people have paid to obtain tickets to choose to see him. My only real problem with the whole thing is that he handled the audience moment extremely badly. From what I can see she probably made a mistake going into a front row, knowing that she had a ***** in her emotional armour that could have come up, just as I avoid front row seats in stand up shows, because I've got a few reasons I'd be an easy target.
If she hadn't been in his eyeline, she could have chosen to leave and demand a refund after he crossed her 'line', although I also see that while I defend his right to do that material, he really should have had something planned for if he was called out on it. The way he dealt with a difficult situation seemed horribly unprofessional and I expect it cost him some fans.
However, one comedian I hugely respect who most people will not have heard of, is Jerry Sadowitz, who makes Frankie Boyle look like Macintyre on an afternoon talk show doing his safest stuff. He does the harshest material I've ever heard, has tiny audiences, never gets on radio or TV, but accepts that and won't change just to get a cushy slot on Saturday nights and some voiceover work selling mobile phones.
In the end, everyone has the right to say what they like, and everyone else has the right to judge them on those words. It's partly why I, along with many comedians, was totally against the law to ban relgious hatred, because it was so overpowered, and really, I think, always need are the current laws.
If I say 'Go and kill some muslims', it's no different to 'go and kill some librarians', its a death threat and illegal, you don't need extra laws to protect particular groups, especially if those groups go out of their way to make themselves targets, but that's for another thread.
TL;DR version:
If it's funny, it's not offensive, by the sound of it, the material was lazy and not funny enough to counter the offensive nature, therefore he loses this round. However, I've heard him go far further, but because there was good material, it passes.
It was rumoured he fell out with Russell Howard because he said that if Russell ever quits comedy he can don a bloodstained romper suit and go on stage as a Baby P tribute act.
To me DS jokes WOULD be far less offensive than that, if they'd been well crafted, but it sounds like he recycled a bunch of old Joey Deacon stuff from the 80s and got burned.
The above Joe brings up the issue of doing this kinda material at a disability gig, but Jimmy Carr was doing a benefit gig for wounded soldiers, and made the comment, based on the number of amputees in the audience that 'say what you like about the war, but we'll have a great paralympic team next time around.'
That line got so much media coverage for being offensive to 'our troops', yet the audience loved it, comedy actually including them and crafted specially for them, instead of being the usual show trawled out every night. I think the main problem seems to be that Boyle was doing lazy, schoolyard humour about Down's Syndrome kids, and if you're not being funny, then you're being offensive. My rule is that if you laughed, you've just ruled yourself out of being allowed to complain.
Now to me, Frankie Boyle and all stand up comedians have the right to say pretty much what the hell they like, when it's their stand up show, and people have paid to obtain tickets to choose to see him. My only real problem with the whole thing is that he handled the audience moment extremely badly. From what I can see she probably made a mistake going into a front row, knowing that she had a ***** in her emotional armour that could have come up, just as I avoid front row seats in stand up shows, because I've got a few reasons I'd be an easy target.
If she hadn't been in his eyeline, she could have chosen to leave and demand a refund after he crossed her 'line', although I also see that while I defend his right to do that material, he really should have had something planned for if he was called out on it. The way he dealt with a difficult situation seemed horribly unprofessional and I expect it cost him some fans.
However, one comedian I hugely respect who most people will not have heard of, is Jerry Sadowitz, who makes Frankie Boyle look like Macintyre on an afternoon talk show doing his safest stuff. He does the harshest material I've ever heard, has tiny audiences, never gets on radio or TV, but accepts that and won't change just to get a cushy slot on Saturday nights and some voiceover work selling mobile phones.
In the end, everyone has the right to say what they like, and everyone else has the right to judge them on those words. It's partly why I, along with many comedians, was totally against the law to ban relgious hatred, because it was so overpowered, and really, I think, always need are the current laws.
If I say 'Go and kill some muslims', it's no different to 'go and kill some librarians', its a death threat and illegal, you don't need extra laws to protect particular groups, especially if those groups go out of their way to make themselves targets, but that's for another thread.
TL;DR version:
If it's funny, it's not offensive, by the sound of it, the material was lazy and not funny enough to counter the offensive nature, therefore he loses this round. However, I've heard him go far further, but because there was good material, it passes.
It was rumoured he fell out with Russell Howard because he said that if Russell ever quits comedy he can don a bloodstained romper suit and go on stage as a Baby P tribute act.
To me DS jokes WOULD be far less offensive than that, if they'd been well crafted, but it sounds like he recycled a bunch of old Joey Deacon stuff from the 80s and got burned.
Quite right, which is why here in Australia you can't call certain species of plant (Xanthorrea preseii) 'black boys' any more (which was their very common name when I was growing up). Now it's gotta be called a 'grass tree'.Mantonio said:
I'm not the biggest fan of Frankie Boyle, hell I think his stand ups are rubbish, but he can be funny. He largely gets away with saying things that are well over the boarders of taste 'cos that's just what he does. I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to have a serious go at him.
But still, I wouldn't have found it all that funny as from what I've heard he's just ripping into them like he does with everything else. Compair Frankie's disabled jokes to ones done by Michael McIntyre ("What do we expect people parked in disabled spaces to do? Stop, open the door and then a second later fall out?"). Same subject but the latter is funnier then the former.
But still, I wouldn't have found it all that funny as from what I've heard he's just ripping into them like he does with everything else. Compair Frankie's disabled jokes to ones done by Michael McIntyre ("What do we expect people parked in disabled spaces to do? Stop, open the door and then a second later fall out?"). Same subject but the latter is funnier then the former.
I think he should be allowed to make whatever jokes he wishes. The thing that annoys me the most about the article is how she went to see his show with full knowledge of the type of jokes he makes. It's not like he kept his humour clean and family friendly and suddenly made fun of Down's Syndrome children. It's only when humour begins to slide into political concepts and creating hatred for certain groups that it becomes not okay.
I also had to laugh at this part:
I also had to laugh at this part:
If her idea of beautiful and intelligent is a Down's Syndrome child, I can't help but wonder what her husband looks like and how intelligent he is...
Not sure how safe it is to repeat some of these quotes, but to any Boyle fans, if you ever get a chance to see Jerry Sadowitz perform live, do it, he'll usually find some way to offend every member of the audience at least once. A few sample lines, from the 80s to recently...
'Nelson Mandela, what a c***, Terry Waite, f***ing bastard...you lend some people a fiver and never see em again.'
He was punched out by an audience member at the Montreal comedy festival, after just his opening line, making him probably the shortest act ever to play there, after merely saying:
"Hello moosefuckers! I tell you why I hate Canada, half of you speak French, and the other half let them."
At a show soon after the tsunami that killed thousands, he said 'I know how those fuckers felt when that wave hit, because I once drank a glass of water too quickly.'
"I have a lot of admiration for rapists as they have to work in the dark."
He probly got the most notoriety when Jill Dando was murdered, as all he had to say was 'I was upset to hear that she'd been murdered - (spoilered for being the worst one of the lot)
He's hard going in a way, but completely, inhumanly remorseless in his tearing holes in differences, holy cows, tragedies, anything. Of course, having read some of his life story, I can see where some of the bitterness and darkness comes from.
'Nelson Mandela, what a c***, Terry Waite, f***ing bastard...you lend some people a fiver and never see em again.'
He was punched out by an audience member at the Montreal comedy festival, after just his opening line, making him probably the shortest act ever to play there, after merely saying:
"Hello moosefuckers! I tell you why I hate Canada, half of you speak French, and the other half let them."
At a show soon after the tsunami that killed thousands, he said 'I know how those fuckers felt when that wave hit, because I once drank a glass of water too quickly.'
"I have a lot of admiration for rapists as they have to work in the dark."
He probly got the most notoriety when Jill Dando was murdered, as all he had to say was 'I was upset to hear that she'd been murdered - (spoilered for being the worst one of the lot)
as if I'd known Jill Dando was to be shot on the Saturday, I'd have raped her on the Friday, as it happened I had to make do with the Sunday.
He's hard going in a way, but completely, inhumanly remorseless in his tearing holes in differences, holy cows, tragedies, anything. Of course, having read some of his life story, I can see where some of the bitterness and darkness comes from.
Also, I feel I'm monopolising the thread, but I don't get the hate towards Macintyre either.
(yes, after I've been supporting some of the most offensive material ever uttered, just above)
To me, stand ups like Peter Kay and Michael Macintyre are good, funny, entertaining guys, who've had the fortune to be in the right place at the right time, and what seems to be forgotten, is they both spent years doing crappy 10 minute 'open mic' spots for no money, followed by getting paid £20 for a 20 minute set, usually with a 6 hour round trip and getting home at 2am.
The 'instant fame' very rarely comes instantly, and while I've got a lot of respect for the edgy, darker comics, I think it can be very difficult to be funny, yet not lock out a large section of your potential audience with swearing or adult content.
Now I'm not saying Kay or Macintyre are as great as they're made out to be, just that they're not the crimes against humour that the other side makes them out to be either. Personally, if I want 'parent safe' comedy, I'll turn to Tim Vine, Harry Hill, or Milton Jones, for a great set with no 'dodgy' material.
People may begrudge Kay his success, but the facts are someone like Boyle never will have that level of success as he chose to limit his audiences thru his act,and I imagine he's quite happy with what he's got. Also, Macintyre, hell no-one, deserved the Daily Mail saying he was their favourite comedian, that's just a horrible thing to do to someone just starting their career, it's the exact opposite of their Kick Ass 1 star review that convinced me the movie would be wonderful, exciting and fun.
(yes, after I've been supporting some of the most offensive material ever uttered, just above)
To me, stand ups like Peter Kay and Michael Macintyre are good, funny, entertaining guys, who've had the fortune to be in the right place at the right time, and what seems to be forgotten, is they both spent years doing crappy 10 minute 'open mic' spots for no money, followed by getting paid £20 for a 20 minute set, usually with a 6 hour round trip and getting home at 2am.
The 'instant fame' very rarely comes instantly, and while I've got a lot of respect for the edgy, darker comics, I think it can be very difficult to be funny, yet not lock out a large section of your potential audience with swearing or adult content.
Now I'm not saying Kay or Macintyre are as great as they're made out to be, just that they're not the crimes against humour that the other side makes them out to be either. Personally, if I want 'parent safe' comedy, I'll turn to Tim Vine, Harry Hill, or Milton Jones, for a great set with no 'dodgy' material.
People may begrudge Kay his success, but the facts are someone like Boyle never will have that level of success as he chose to limit his audiences thru his act,and I imagine he's quite happy with what he's got. Also, Macintyre, hell no-one, deserved the Daily Mail saying he was their favourite comedian, that's just a horrible thing to do to someone just starting their career, it's the exact opposite of their Kick Ass 1 star review that convinced me the movie would be wonderful, exciting and fun.
Frankie goes out of his way to make fun of everything and anything. And as a result is edgy and a great laugh.
This woman's mistake was believing that she's allowed to laugh at everyone else without being targeted at a sensitive area of her life.
'Shut up you whiny *****' basically sums up my point of view.
This woman's mistake was believing that she's allowed to laugh at everyone else without being targeted at a sensitive area of her life.
'Shut up you whiny *****' basically sums up my point of view.