Poll: Free will, does it exist?

[Sad Robot]

I was unsure whether this should go here or the religion sub-forum; mods: feel free to move this.

Some time ago I used this quote in another thread, it is a translated quote from a book written by a physicist. I am not a physicist, however, his view seemed so reasonable I have more or less adapted this point into my amalgamation of beliefs I call "me".

I believe that my psyche is a process, a capitalist system of molecular factories with no hard core, no five year plan, and no designer I could call my "self". It is not seated only within my brain but my whole body is involved in maintaining my sense of self. I believe that my experience of myself is a patchwork of small pieces, that I've been many people and that even as we speak, different versions of myself appear in my brain, versions that take control of me depending on the situation. I believe that my will is not free but that all my actions, opinions, needs and thoughts are the results of a dance of atoms and molecules governed by the laws of physics, lacking any spiritual guidance. I believe that my sense of self is a comforting lullaby selected in evolution, a narrative echoing in my consciousness, constructed by my brain in order to maintain an illusion of continuity and control.

Do you agree with the idea or not? And how so?

 

[AkJay]

Well, define what exactly "free will" is, and I can tell you if it exists or not, at least, that's what I am programmed to say.

 

[dududf]

Peoples definitions of Free Will vary, from person to person.

For example, my definition of free will is choosing yes or no in that poll!

 

[gregitaly]

I believe that we all have a destiny. nuff said.

 

[Aardvark]

No. Everything is set in stone and cannot be changed. All posts here made in support of or against the idea of free will are only being made because they have to be made. Those of you reading this post were predestined to do so.

 

[skyfire_freckles]

We choose. We choose and we could have chosen differently. Free will.

If our options are dictated by chance and genetics, fine. We choose among them. So, if you like, will, but not totally free will. Self determination within limits.

"You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice
if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice
you can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose free will"

 

[Insanum]

well thats basically saying you are filling in for the needs of your body, wether that be food, shelter, etc.

Its all the basic needs selection.

Answer me this; Have you ever got up early one morning & gone out for a run/drive or even just done something completely spontaneous & out of the ordinary?

If you have not, try it, It makes you feel great if done well.

And yes, I do believe in free will.

 

[Zacharine]

Funny thing about physics is that in quantum world determinism breaks down.

So even if you believe that laws of physics pre-determine your every action, there is still a degree of randomness within the 'system'. Thus making perfect predetermination within the brain-system and outside world fundamentally impossible.

I do believe in free will. Because to do otherwise would mean to no one is really responsible for their own actions. And I find that thought repugnant.

EDIT: and regarding the OP: I do not think that free will is the result of anything spiritual, nor are our choicces pre-determined by laws of physics or anything else for that matter. Science has shown us that humans thoughts can have a direct and measurable effect on ones own brains. Thinking certain things causes certain neurons to fire. Thus, the act of thinking chaces the current state of the thinkers brain, introducing a non-predeterminable variable to the system.

 

[TheLastCylon]

Yes, because I pressed the "yes" button in your poll.

 

[GreyWolf257]

I don't necessarily believe this theory. I think that people have complete control over their minds (unless they are mentally insane or otherwise mentally retarded).

 

[Kriptonite]

Sure, but I can understand that person's ideas. I'm pretty sure that people have free will, just some less than others...

 

[AutumnGold]

yes. im gonna exert mine right now by telling you your a fucking idiot

 

[carpathic]

There can be no such thing as total free will.

There are the laws of physics - I cannot leave my window and expect to float upwards (without breathing in FAR more helium than might be considered safe).

If there is a God, and if it is omnipotent and omniscient then free will is not possible as all of your actions were determined at whatever the beginning of time is. (Depending on whether you count something knowing what you do before you do it to be free will. Also raises the ugly head of God setting the universe in motion such that there can be nothing other than the choices made, or one of a very few choices based on literally uncountable other decisions taking place off-camera as it were. Some very interesting ideas from Quantum Computing raise their ugly heads here...)

And I just realized that I lack the energy to totally complete this post...stupid bad days..

 

[Sad Robot]

My definition of "free will" was, I think, addressed in the quote I provided. That "free will" is an illusion that exists only in our minds, and really all "choices" aren't so much choices in a philosophical sense but merely movement of atoms that was set in motion a long time ago and play out as a rationalization produced by our brain because, a phenomenon that was selected in evolution.

We choose. We choose and we could have chosen differently. Free will.

If our options are dictated by chance and genetics, fine. We choose among them. So, if you like, will, but not totally free will. Self determination within limits.

We tend to think we could've chosen differently but could we really have? If you were back in any given situation without the benefit of hindsight, wouldn't you have chosen exactly the same way you did when it happened? Whether or not you felt unsure about how you chose would be irrelevant.

 

[Sad Robot]

Funny thing about physics is that in quantum world determinism breaks down.

So even if you believe that laws of physics pre-determine your every action, there is still a degree of randomness within the 'system'. Thus making perfect predetermination within the brain-system and outside world fundamentally impossible.

Whether or not there is perceivable randomness within the system, how does that leave us in control of our actions in any way?

I do believe in free will. Because to do otherwise would mean to no one is really responsible for their own actions. And I find that thought repugnant.

It may be a repugnant thought but how would that make it any less real?

Science has shown us that humans thoughts can have a direct and measurable effect on ones own brains. Thinking certain things causes certain neurons to fire. Thus, the act of thinking chaces the current state of the thinkers brain, introducing a non-predeterminable variable to the system.

Yes, absolutely, but aren't all thoughts and actions and events in the universe merely movement of atoms and sub-atomic particles governed by the laws of physics?

 

[skyfire_freckles]

My definition of "free will" was, I think, addressed in the quote I provided. That "free will" is an illusion that exists only in our minds, and really all "choices" aren't so much choices in a philosophical sense but merely movement of atoms that was set in motion a long time ago and play out as a rationalization produced by our brain because, a phenomenon that was selected in evolution.

We choose. We choose and we could have chosen differently. Free will.

If our options are dictated by chance and genetics, fine. We choose among them. So, if you like, will, but not totally free will. Self determination within limits.

We tend to think we could've chosen differently but could we really have? If you were back in any given situation without the benefit of hindsight, wouldn't you have chosen exactly the same way you did when it happened? Whether or not you felt unsure about how you chose would be irrelevant.

Given that there is no way to know that, no, I don't think I would have chosen differently. I chose the way I did because of who I was at that moment, a state that is the result of chance, biology and previous choices, and I made what I felt was the best choice at that moment given those factors and with the information I had. But! I could have chosen differently. That's where free will exists.

 

[Sad Robot]

yes. im gonna exert mine right now by telling you your a fucking idiot

That you believe you are in control of your actions doesn't prove you are. It's only your experience of it.

 

[Commander Jack Rankin]

A man chooses. A slave obeys.

 

[Sad Robot]

Given that there is no way to know that, no, I don't think I would have chosen differently. I chose the way I did because of who I was at that moment, a state that is the result of chance, biology and previous choices, and I made what I felt was the best choice at that moment given those factors and with the information I had.

Yes, this is how I feel of all my actions as well.

But! I could have chosen differently. That's where free will exists.

So what do you base this theory on?