Poll: From science, with love

[Danny Ocean]

In all seriousness; nothing you listed really seemed like anything outside what a normal person would do. Using 'calculated phrases' and 'psychological reasoning' in conversation is what most people would attribute as social skills, not science.

I wouldn't even consider using "science" as a way of explaining it. To me it just sounds like common sense.

Sounds to me like you're making more of this than it actually is.

This, this, and this express my thoughts on the matter pretty well. It's not a science, it's social skills.

If it extends to more than social skills, it's called being manipulative. That's not really allowed, but, let's be honest, it happens all the time anyway.

When you run through conversation possibilities and choose which words you think will result in the least amount of conflict, I don't consider it social skills. Social skills are knowing the right words to say at that moment. Science is working them out beforehand.

That's what everyone does.

If you're expecting an argument, you run over ways it can play out in your head over and over again to try and find the right words to reduce conflict or win or get what you want.

I think you're just splitting hairs to make yourself sound clever. Nothing so far seems like the use of science, just application of empathy and a little consideration/manipulation.

 

[Screamarie]

You're being very vague and therefore I can't really say for certain, but generally I have to say no. Lucky for you your girlfriend is pretty easy going I guess, but if it were I would be pissed to know that my boyfriend used "tricks" to bring about an expected behavior that he wanted and to get me to think the way that he wants me to (at least that's how you're describing it).

If you don't like your partner's behavior discuss it with them or break it off, if you can't handle conflict then maybe you should resolve it before a problem arises, but it's not right for one person in the relationship to just decide they know what's best for the two and manipulate things to make it go that way.

 

[Direwolf750]

Unless it's using chemistry to doping her, I don't see the problem. You mean is it okey for you to MANIPULATE HER? By the use of your knowledge of the human mind and body-reactions?

More or less, yeah. I'm not doping her or anything drug related, just to clear that up.

Manipulating someone is never a very nice thing to do. It might be good for them in the end (manipulating spouse/lover/child into something you know they need, but hate doing), or easier for both of you (manipulation to prevent a fight), but in the end it comes down to being dishonest, and it simply isn't very nice.
However, sometimes, you have to judge the upsides and the downsides. Is it better to manipulate/lie, and take the bad karma for being an ass, than to end in an argument that will break the relationship? Probably is.

If you really can manipulate someone with true skill, and use it just for your advantage or getting your way, it's wrong. If you do it because you love her, it's okey, but still I'd rather take another path, if another path would yield the same endresults.

I'm no stranger to doing this to my partners, for whatever reasons, and in the end you tend to feel a bit lousy, or downright self-loathing.

I did feel guilty, until I told her about it, and now I'm not sure if I feel guilty or relieved...both in a way.

 

[Quaxar]

ALSO EDIT: I haven't used any drugs whatsoever in this relationship unless chocolate counts...

From what I know about women it's worse than giving her pure heroin. You should be ashamed of yourself!

Also, you're a clever guy and I like that. Keep experimenting, maybe you'll become a bestselling author one day or something.

 

[esperandote]

so basically


Yeah, thats kinda rude.

 

[Direwolf750]

You're being very vague and therefore I can't really say for certain, but generally I have to say no. Lucky for you your girlfriend is pretty easy going I guess, but if it were I would be pissed to know that my boyfriend used "tricks" to bring about an expected behavior that he wanted and to get me to think the way that he wants me to (at least that's how you're describing it).

If you don't like your partner's behavior discuss it with them or break it off, if you can't handle conflict then maybe you should resolve it before a problem arises, but it's not right for one person in the relationship to just decide they know what's best for the two and manipulate things to make it go that way.

I don't mean to say that we don't discuss issues we have with each other, we do, quite a lot. And I don't just make things the way I want them, if she doesn't want something, I don't force her to do it. Perhaps manipulate was a bad choice of words, but I haven't made her do anything. The problem is defining the line between convincing someone with logic and changing the way they think with science. I've seen myself use both.

 

[HeartagramMan]

ALSO EDIT: I haven't used any drugs whatsoever in this relationship unless chocolate counts...

From what I know about women it's worse than giving her pure heroin. You should be ashamed of yourself!

Also, you're a clever guy and I like that. Keep experimenting, maybe you'll become a bestselling author one day or something.

No drugs in THIS relationship? Indicating drugs have been used in previous ones?

 

[Realitycrash]

Unless it's using chemistry to doping her, I don't see the problem. You mean is it okey for you to MANIPULATE HER? By the use of your knowledge of the human mind and body-reactions?

More or less, yeah. I'm not doping her or anything drug related, just to clear that up.

Manipulating someone is never a very nice thing to do. It might be good for them in the end (manipulating spouse/lover/child into something you know they need, but hate doing), or easier for both of you (manipulation to prevent a fight), but in the end it comes down to being dishonest, and it simply isn't very nice.
However, sometimes, you have to judge the upsides and the downsides. Is it better to manipulate/lie, and take the bad karma for being an ass, than to end in an argument that will break the relationship? Probably is.

If you really can manipulate someone with true skill, and use it just for your advantage or getting your way, it's wrong. If you do it because you love her, it's okey, but still I'd rather take another path, if another path would yield the same endresults.

I'm no stranger to doing this to my partners, for whatever reasons, and in the end you tend to feel a bit lousy, or downright self-loathing.

I did feel guilty, until I told her about it, and now I'm not sure if I feel guilty or relieved...both in a way.

Unless I knew exactly what you did, or have done on several occasions, I don't know how to comment. How did she react?

 

[Direwolf750]

Unless it's using chemistry to doping her, I don't see the problem. You mean is it okey for you to MANIPULATE HER? By the use of your knowledge of the human mind and body-reactions?

More or less, yeah. I'm not doping her or anything drug related, just to clear that up.

Manipulating someone is never a very nice thing to do. It might be good for them in the end (manipulating spouse/lover/child into something you know they need, but hate doing), or easier for both of you (manipulation to prevent a fight), but in the end it comes down to being dishonest, and it simply isn't very nice.
However, sometimes, you have to judge the upsides and the downsides. Is it better to manipulate/lie, and take the bad karma for being an ass, than to end in an argument that will break the relationship? Probably is.

If you really can manipulate someone with true skill, and use it just for your advantage or getting your way, it's wrong. If you do it because you love her, it's okey, but still I'd rather take another path, if another path would yield the same endresults.

I'm no stranger to doing this to my partners, for whatever reasons, and in the end you tend to feel a bit lousy, or downright self-loathing.

I did feel guilty, until I told her about it, and now I'm not sure if I feel guilty or relieved...both in a way.

Unless I knew exactly what you did, or have done on several occasions, I don't know how to comment. How did she react?

She said that I was clever and that she liked that about me. That was about it.

 

[Quaxar]

ALSO EDIT: I haven't used any drugs whatsoever in this relationship unless chocolate counts...

From what I know about women it's worse than giving her pure heroin. You should be ashamed of yourself!

Also, you're a clever guy and I like that. Keep experimenting, maybe you'll become a bestselling author one day or something.

No drugs in THIS relationship? Indicating drugs have been used in previous ones?

Good point. Though if the CIA is allowed to test LSD in drinking water, I think he should be too. Y'know, for science.

 

[Direwolf750]

ALSO EDIT: I haven't used any drugs whatsoever in this relationship unless chocolate counts...

From what I know about women it's worse than giving her pure heroin. You should be ashamed of yourself!

Also, you're a clever guy and I like that. Keep experimenting, maybe you'll become a bestselling author one day or something.

No drugs in THIS relationship? Indicating drugs have been used in previous ones?

Nope, none.

 

[Realitycrash]

Unless it's using chemistry to doping her, I don't see the problem. You mean is it okey for you to MANIPULATE HER? By the use of your knowledge of the human mind and body-reactions?

More or less, yeah. I'm not doping her or anything drug related, just to clear that up.

Manipulating someone is never a very nice thing to do. It might be good for them in the end (manipulating spouse/lover/child into something you know they need, but hate doing), or easier for both of you (manipulation to prevent a fight), but in the end it comes down to being dishonest, and it simply isn't very nice.
However, sometimes, you have to judge the upsides and the downsides. Is it better to manipulate/lie, and take the bad karma for being an ass, than to end in an argument that will break the relationship? Probably is.

If you really can manipulate someone with true skill, and use it just for your advantage or getting your way, it's wrong. If you do it because you love her, it's okey, but still I'd rather take another path, if another path would yield the same endresults.

I'm no stranger to doing this to my partners, for whatever reasons, and in the end you tend to feel a bit lousy, or downright self-loathing.

I did feel guilty, until I told her about it, and now I'm not sure if I feel guilty or relieved...both in a way.

Unless I knew exactly what you did, or have done on several occasions, I don't know how to comment. How did she react?

She said that I was clever and that she liked that about me. That was about it.

Then you didn't do anything that was out-right horrible (trust me, noone will say "Gosh, that's clever!" if you manipulate them into not taking that job they are offered, because you smoothly yet without being detected crushed their self-esteem and made it clear that it would be better for them if they stayed unemployed with you. Not that I have done this, mind you. Was an example).
Problem solved.

 

[Vorocano]

It's mind gaming. It's, to my mind, no worse than a gal "playing hard to get" or "saying the exact frigging opposite of what she means and assuming her man is psychic."

Is it right? Well, probably not, but it's no less right than playing mind games, which (according to the culture anyway) seems to be the womanly prerogative.

For example, the chocolate after sex thing is simple positive reinforcement. Hell, we use that to teach our children not to be psychos, why shouldn't we do it in relationships?

So I guess my thing is, as long as you're not lying or drugging her or something like that, I don't see it as being any worse than the usual "head games."

 

[Direwolf750]

so basically


Yeah, thats kinda rude.

Actually kind of like that, except combined with sex. I actually didn't know it was really a psychological thing until she told me about it as something she learned in her psychology book. And after a point, the action replaces the condition, so chocolate isn't actually necessary to provoke the action. I had started doing it because I knew she liked chocolate and I wanted to do something nice for her. Then I learned it was science :|

 

[Direwolf750]

Unless it's using chemistry to doping her, I don't see the problem. You mean is it okey for you to MANIPULATE HER? By the use of your knowledge of the human mind and body-reactions?

More or less, yeah. I'm not doping her or anything drug related, just to clear that up.

Manipulating someone is never a very nice thing to do. It might be good for them in the end (manipulating spouse/lover/child into something you know they need, but hate doing), or easier for both of you (manipulation to prevent a fight), but in the end it comes down to being dishonest, and it simply isn't very nice.
However, sometimes, you have to judge the upsides and the downsides. Is it better to manipulate/lie, and take the bad karma for being an ass, than to end in an argument that will break the relationship? Probably is.

If you really can manipulate someone with true skill, and use it just for your advantage or getting your way, it's wrong. If you do it because you love her, it's okey, but still I'd rather take another path, if another path would yield the same endresults.

I'm no stranger to doing this to my partners, for whatever reasons, and in the end you tend to feel a bit lousy, or downright self-loathing.

I did feel guilty, until I told her about it, and now I'm not sure if I feel guilty or relieved...both in a way.

Unless I knew exactly what you did, or have done on several occasions, I don't know how to comment. How did she react?

She said that I was clever and that she liked that about me. That was about it.

Then you didn't do anything that was out-right horrible (trust me, noone will say "Gosh, that's clever!" if you manipulate them into not taking that job they are offered, because you smoothly yet without being detected crushed their self-esteem and made it clear that it would be better for them if they stayed unemployed with you. Not that I have done this, mind you. Was an example).
Problem solved.

wasn't really a problem, I just wanted to hear what people thought about it. Although I probably solved that problem using the problem after all...

 

[Zaik]

I don't see anything wrong with it. I can see why someone would, but I personally wouldn't feel any guilt over it.

 

[justnotcricket]

It's all about your attitude to it. If your actions are transparent and genuinely motivated by a desire to not only improve your situation, but hers as well, then go right ahead. The reason you felt guilty about it is probably because you hadn't discussed these things with her, and therefore knew that, however kindly and positively motivated your actions were, you were treating her a little bit like a lab rat, or perhaps like you're training an animal. Which is very bad. Hence, once you talked about it, you felt better, and the situation became better.

If nothing else, remember that manipulation in relationships is very much a two way street =) Everyone does little things to get their way or make their life easier, you've just taken it a little more, uh, earnestly than others.

 

[BENZOOKA]

I've used tricks I've learned from psychology, biology and chemistry to boost our relationship

This sounds exactly like a normal relationship to me.

Yes. It is okay.

 

[Realitycrash]

Unless it's using chemistry to doping her, I don't see the problem. You mean is it okey for you to MANIPULATE HER? By the use of your knowledge of the human mind and body-reactions?

More or less, yeah. I'm not doping her or anything drug related, just to clear that up.

Manipulating someone is never a very nice thing to do. It might be good for them in the end (manipulating spouse/lover/child into something you know they need, but hate doing), or easier for both of you (manipulation to prevent a fight), but in the end it comes down to being dishonest, and it simply isn't very nice.
However, sometimes, you have to judge the upsides and the downsides. Is it better to manipulate/lie, and take the bad karma for being an ass, than to end in an argument that will break the relationship? Probably is.

If you really can manipulate someone with true skill, and use it just for your advantage or getting your way, it's wrong. If you do it because you love her, it's okey, but still I'd rather take another path, if another path would yield the same endresults.

I'm no stranger to doing this to my partners, for whatever reasons, and in the end you tend to feel a bit lousy, or downright self-loathing.

I did feel guilty, until I told her about it, and now I'm not sure if I feel guilty or relieved...both in a way.

Unless I knew exactly what you did, or have done on several occasions, I don't know how to comment. How did she react?

She said that I was clever and that she liked that about me. That was about it.

Then you didn't do anything that was out-right horrible (trust me, noone will say "Gosh, that's clever!" if you manipulate them into not taking that job they are offered, because you smoothly yet without being detected crushed their self-esteem and made it clear that it would be better for them if they stayed unemployed with you. Not that I have done this, mind you. Was an example).
Problem solved.

wasn't really a problem, I just wanted to hear what people thought about it. Although I probably solved that problem using the problem after all...

Watch House M.D
You will get an endless example of things not to do with manipulation. In fact, I bet you that you will feel what you do are small and overlookable things.

 

[newwiseman]

I sense the force is strong in this one.

The morality of manipulating animal behavior in human I feel boils down to original intent. Was your intent to get you rocks off and leave her or have a lasting relationship? You've already answered your own question there.

I too noticed I had a nack for influencing positive responses from people using everything from facial expressions and color of shirt, to manner of speech. The skill stems from my ability to read people, body language is real, LEARN TO SPEAK IT. This kind of behavior naturally occurs anywhere if your consciously aware of it or not, and being aware of your actions doesn't make you bad is makes you more HUMAN. Live guilt free in the knowledge you haven't abused your talent.