Poll: Game of Thrones/Song of Ice and Fire. Whose banner do you follow?

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BloatedGuppy

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loc978 said:
Among the ideals represented in the series, I'm most fond of the Stark/Baratheon alliance of Robert's rebellion
I think that if Robert had wound up with Lyanna for a wife and Eddard for a Hand right off the bat, the Seven Kingdoms would have prospered under his rule. Most of the downfall of the Kingdom can be blamed on Tywin Lannister, really (especially if you fault him for Cersei's actions after he essentially forced her to become the queen).
...as things stand at the end of A Dance With Dragons I identify most closely with the Brotherhood Without Banners; what's leftovers of Beric Dondarrion's outlaw band.
So (no spoilers;DR version), House Dondarrion. Lightning banner for me.
Really? You think TYWIN is to blame for the poor state of the realm? It's pretty much implied that Tywin has been the only thing holding the realm together through years of idiotic rule, from Aerys straight through Robert and then Cersei/Joffrey. I don't think it's a coincidence that things go completely to hell after he's killed.
 

loc978

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BloatedGuppy said:
loc978 said:
Among the ideals represented in the series, I'm most fond of the Stark/Baratheon alliance of Robert's rebellion
I think that if Robert had wound up with Lyanna for a wife and Eddard for a Hand right off the bat, the Seven Kingdoms would have prospered under his rule. Most of the downfall of the Kingdom can be blamed on Tywin Lannister, really (especially if you fault him for Cersei's actions after he essentially forced her to become the queen).
...as things stand at the end of A Dance With Dragons I identify most closely with the Brotherhood Without Banners; what's leftovers of Beric Dondarrion's outlaw band.
So (no spoilers;DR version), House Dondarrion. Lightning banner for me.
Really? You think TYWIN is to blame for the poor state of the realm? It's pretty much implied that Tywin has been the only thing holding the realm together through years of idiotic rule, from Aerys straight through Robert and then Cersei/Joffrey. I don't think it's a coincidence that things go completely to hell after he's killed.
Yup. Tywin held together a powerbase full of problems that he created. After he died, his idiotic system came crashing down.

Had Robert been surrounded with practical advisers whom he actually trusted (and were strong-willed enough to disagree with him), his rule would have been tempered by those people. John Arryn was a terribly weak Hand who let the king run rampant in his miserable debauchery.

Had Robert been in the marriage he desired surrounded by allies, he wouldn't have been the same obstinate jackass we all read/saw. Robert was a product of his surroundings and his failures. With a few more successes and a few more friends standing by him, he would have been a different man and a decent monarch.
 

dobahci

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BloatedGuppy said:
Really? You think TYWIN is to blame for the poor state of the realm? It's pretty much implied that Tywin has been the only thing holding the realm together through years of idiotic rule, from Aerys straight through Robert and then Cersei/Joffrey. I don't think it's a coincidence that things go completely to hell after he's killed.
I largely agree with you. Tywin may have been ruthless in war, but he understood well how to make a realm prosper during peacetime. However, he didn't have much of a part during Robert's rule, I think? He held the realm together during the time of Aerys, but eventually the rebellion occurred anyway due to the fact that Aerys was completely mad. And Robert never trusted the Lannisters well, so it was mostly Jon Arryn holding the realm together at that point. And Arryn would've been knocked off at one point or another by the Lannisters because of what he learned about Cersei and Jaime, and his murder is pretty much the event that brought about the entire chain of events that led to the war.

Tywin probably could've been a decent ruler, but usually gets tasked with cleaning up everyone else's messes, and unfortunately fails at that task more often than he succeeds at it (not quite his fault, there really was no helping the disaster that was Joffrey).

loc978 said:
Robert was a product of his surroundings and his failures. With a few more successes and a few more friends standing by him, he would have been a different man and a decent monarch.
I'm not sure I believe that. Everything in the stories seems to point to the fact that Robert was a charismatic warrior but simply wasn't made to be a king. He was too irresponsible. Even during wartime when he was at his peak, he still drank and whored like crazy, and when Eddard (probably the best influence Robert could've had at his side) was finally appointed Hand, he realized very quickly that there was little he could do to influence the king for the better. The real problems were created by Cersei, not Tywin.
 

El Dwarfio

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Imperius said:
Well I picked the house that was a facsmilie of my house IRL during the middle ages....No matter what they do I will always be behind them!
Yeah, I'm a Lancastrian so I should probably pick the Starks as well... but the Lannisters are so damn cool (not to mention rich) even if they are treacherous Yorkists.

House Martell are pretty cool as well, but for al their grandeur their impact seems to be a little underwhelming.
 

BloatedGuppy

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loc978 said:
Yup. Tywin held together a powerbase full of problems that he created. After he died, his idiotic system came crashing down.

Had Robert been surrounded with practical advisers whom he actually trusted (and were strong-willed enough to disagree with him), his rule would have been tempered by those people. John Arryn was a terribly weak Hand who let the king run rampant in his miserable debauchery.

Had Robert been in the marriage he desired surrounded by allies, he wouldn't have been the same obstinate jackass we all read/saw. Robert was a product of his surroundings and his failures. With a few more successes and a few more friends standing by him, he would have been a different man and a decent monarch.
I disagree with this assessment of Robert. It's made fairly clear that Lyanna was a lot less enamored of him than he was of her, and one of the reasons for this appears to be the fact that Robert was a loud, violent, lusty man even then. He was built for warfare, but not for ruling. He admits as much himself. He wanted to win the girl back. Instead he got a kingdom he never wanted and didn't know what to do with.

I also don't think Eddard would have made a good Hand. It's not so much that Ned Stark was too good a man to function in a pit of vipers, he was a man whose rigid code of personal honor made him far too inflexible to function politically.

Tywin is a political animal. He understands compromise, and he's willing to make unpleasant decisions when they are in the best interest of the realm. We can debate all day whether or not he's a good man or a good father. Kevin certainly thinks so...Tyrion does not...but whether the two of them are good men in their own right is also open to debate. But that he was a good HAND seems fairly evident.
 

Imperius

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El Dwarfio said:
Imperius said:
Well I picked the house that was a facsmilie of my house IRL during the middle ages....No matter what they do I will always be behind them!
Yeah, I'm a Lancastrian so I should probably pick the Starks as well... but the Lannisters are so damn cool (not to mention rich) even if they are treacherous Yorkists.

House Martell are pretty cool as well, but for al their grandeur their impact seems to be a little underwhelming.
Err but the Lannisters are based on the House of Lancaster...
Lannisport on the WEST COAST
CASTERly rock
A Golden Lion on a Red field...

lol.
 

El Dwarfio

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Imperius said:
El Dwarfio said:
Imperius said:
Well I picked the house that was a facsmilie of my house IRL during the middle ages....No matter what they do I will always be behind them!
Yeah, I'm a Lancastrian so I should probably pick the Starks as well... but the Lannisters are so damn cool (not to mention rich) even if they are treacherous Yorkists.

House Martell are pretty cool as well, but for al their grandeur their impact seems to be a little underwhelming.
Err but the Lannisters are based on the House of Lancaster...
Lannisport on the WEST COAST
CASTERly rock
A Golden Lion on a Red field...

lol.
Hey fuck off, dont be so scathing, I dont pay attention to this :p

I genuinely thought it was the other way round - oh well, just makes my choice all the more appealing.
 

darksakul

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While technically not a house, I would pick the Dothraki
 

Krantos

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None of the Above?

How about Snow? Or just Tyrion Lannister? Personally, I thought they were the only likable characters, so can I just make a separate house with those two?
 

Judgedread

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Honestly, I found the traditional houses to be overly boring. If I had to pick my favourite group it would have to be the Nights Watch. I found Jon Snow to be the most interesting character and he quickly became my favourite from the start. I have to say... my heart sunk after what happened at the end of A Dance with Dragons...

Jon Snow was one of the most sensible leaders left by the end of it. With Stannis being a close second. If they are both dead I shudder to think what will happen.
 

GrimTuesday

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I would probably choose the Starks, just because I like the North and their outlook on things. Although, I do really like House Royce (of the Vale) and the Umbers (of the North), but they are both sworn to greater lords, so its irreverent.

When I saw Others, I chuckled because that's the main term used for the White Walkers in the book.
 

Imperius

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Seems like Greyjoy isnt getting much love. They have cool islands, whats not to love?
 

Smiley Face

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dobahci said:
BloatedGuppy said:
Really? You think TYWIN is to blame for the poor state of the realm? It's pretty much implied that Tywin has been the only thing holding the realm together through years of idiotic rule, from Aerys straight through Robert and then Cersei/Joffrey. I don't think it's a coincidence that things go completely to hell after he's killed.
I largely agree with you. Tywin may have been ruthless in war, but he understood well how to make a realm prosper during peacetime. However, he didn't have much of a part during Robert's rule, I think? He held the realm together during the time of Aerys, but eventually the rebellion occurred anyway due to the fact that Aerys was completely mad. And Robert never trusted the Lannisters well, so it was mostly Jon Arryn holding the realm together at that point. And Arryn would've been knocked off at one point or another by the Lannisters because of what he learned about Cersei and Jaime, and his murder is pretty much the event that brought about the entire chain of events that led to the war.

Tywin probably could've been a decent ruler, but usually gets tasked with cleaning up everyone else's messes, and unfortunately fails at that task more often than he succeeds at it (not quite his fault, there really was no helping the disaster that was Joffrey).
Tywin's ruthlessly practical character, his evident military and economic prowess, means that he would likely have been a very effective ruler. Heck, he had the political savvy to get out of his job as Aerys' hand, unscathed. Not that there was any situation where he could have really come to direct power, but still.

A Baratheon-Stark government would have crashed and burned - Blind Honor combined with Pure Instinct, bad move. Stark wouldn't have let them engage in the lending practices that kept the kingdom afloat during Robert's reign, and neither of them had the economic skill to actually make money - nor would Stark stoop to dealing with any of the ones who did.

As for my house, I'm amazed that no-one has picked my favourite so far. House BAELISH.
Petyr is in the major leagues of people playing the great game, enough that it could be argued he's at the top, tied or not - and he's also got the most class.

He stays out of the eye of the other big players, and every time he shows up, it's with a major win. 1st is the whole Stark thing. Then he's sent as envoy to Renly's gang, as such avoiding all the chaos of Joffrey's reign, and at the 11th hour, Renly's crew saves the day at King's Landing. Then he gets the seat of Harrenhal (or something), uses it to court Lysa, secure more power, comes back for Joffrey's wedding, and then pulls all those coups at the Vale. He hasn't made a wrong step yet.

He's got style. He's polite, but he will stab you in the back in the most efficient way possible if you are in his way. Yeah, some people aren't going to like him for that, but you have to admire the skill with which he goes about it. Moreover, I honestly believe that if Ned Stark had been more rational or competent, willing to go ahead with his plan - secure Joffrey, and act as regent - he wouldn't necessarily have backstabbed him, Brandon Stark or no. But instead, Ned insisted on the 'honourable' path of just shouting 'STANNIS FOR KING' and leaving a localized power vacuum and serious legitimacy problems. WHY would Littlefinger allow that to happen?

And yet, I feel because of the whole Sansa thing, he'll eventually make a mistake, put himself in a vulnerable position, and get delayed karmic payback. And I don't want that to happen, he's played too well, and he isn't really a BAD guy on the level that more than half the other characters are.