Poll: Games aren't gay enough.

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Rascarin

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krazykidd said:
mgirl said:
krazykidd said:
And in all honesty , Without relying on emotion . Whats the difference between heterosexuality / homosexuality and pedophilia?
The difference is is that heterosexuality and homosexuality is mostly expressed through a loving relationship between 2 consenting adults, and pedophilia is often expressed through the abuse and rape of innocent children and I can't believe I've had to say that more than once now.
Those are the rules of the society we live in . Rules that are constantly changing . It has absolutely nothig to do with the "nature" of things . People didn't like the idea , thus it's illegal . You were taught to hate pedophilia , therefor you do . Just like generation before you were taught to hate homosexuality . Like i said in my previous post . At a basic level , there is no difference . The difference lies on an emotional , therefor subjective level .
The difference is that it is proven that victims of paedophilia - the children who are raped/abused, etc - suffer for it. This is a fact.

The same is NOT true of homosexual relationships. A child cannot understand sex, and thus cannot give consent. Homsexual relationships are consentual, and are not harmful.

Yes, some people may be born as paedophiles and unable to help their feelings. However, actions as a result of these feelings are harmful.

Comparing homosexuality and transgender issues to paedophilia and bestiality? You are wrong, sir. Completely wrong.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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Sneezeburger said:
It boils my blood when people compare being gay to pedophilia.
Likewise. The best response is to Report and Ignore. That's what I did. Others have already called the individuals in the thread out on their actions - now's the time to bring the Mods down on those who are being offensive.

Click Report, then add to ignore list (well, you don't need to do that second part, but I find it helps my blood pressure).

mgirl said:
Ditto. Make sure that, after your response that you use that Report button. The only way to keep offensive behavior (like this) off of the Escapist is to Report it when it happens.
 

Thistlehart

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krazykidd said:
mgirl said:
krazykidd said:
And in all honesty , Without relying on emotion . Whats the difference between heterosexuality / homosexuality and pedophilia?
The difference is is that heterosexuality and homosexuality is mostly expressed through a loving relationship between 2 consenting adults, and pedophilia is often expressed through the abuse and rape of innocent children and I can't believe I've had to say that more than once now.
Those are the rules of the society we live in . Rules that are constantly changing . It has absolutely nothig to do with the "nature" of things . People didn't like the idea , thus it's illegal . You were taught to hate pedophilia , therefor you do . Just like generation before you were taught to hate homosexuality . Like i said in my previous post . At a basic level , there is no difference . The difference lies on an emotional , therefor subjective level .
While yes, society is always in a state of flux, I hesitate to concur with your implication that, eventually, sex with children will be acceptable, despite the harm it does/may do.

Could we simply be spouting off learned attitudes? Perhaps. Might those who were victims of child molesters be less damaged/traumatized if society didn't see these things as horrific and sick? It is certainly possible. Is it likely you're going to be able to appeal to people with this sort of logic, right now, with attitudes being what they are? Highly unlikely. Should you try to be less ham-handed in explaining your points? Most certainly.

I think I understand what you are trying to say, however, you are also saying something else.

heterosexual sex = socially acceptable & objectively harmless
homosexual sex = recently socially acceptable & objectively harmless
sex with a child = currently socially unacceptable but objectively harmless

ergo

sex with a child is objectively no different than sex with a consenting adult.

I think, that in order to get your point across, you are going to have to provide compelling arguments that having sex with a child is not potentially harmful and also that children are capable of providing consistent legal consent. As it is, society, and in many cases the medical and psychological community, believe it is quite harmful. Granted, the same groups used to (and in some cases still do) think the same thing about homosexuality, and many of those ideas are being proven groundless.

Considering that, I must point out to you that, whatever your logic is on the matter, when you compare homosexuals to pedophiles (pedophile =/= child molester, but often people fail to recognize the difference) you are (to put it bluntly) pissing in people's Cheerios.

Edit: I need to work on my proofreading.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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Mar 16, 2011
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Are people nuts? The reason why homosexuality is different from pedophilia is because pedophilia is not consensual while gay sex is between two consenting adults.

I'm worried that I have to point this out at all, come on guys. :|

OT: I get annoyed with how much lesbian pandering to men there is in games especially since it feels like there is a lack of straight relationships for central female characters like Lara Croft.
 

Zaik

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Considering that the actual percentage of the world population that is gay is something like 1%-10%, I find it odd that it comes up as often as it does.

Seems pretty 4th wall breaking to just cram a gay character into everything just to appease the pc police.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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Boudica said:
While I agree that the comparison is rather... shitty, they are right in the sense that pedophilia is a sexual preference (and a perversion, mind) and both homosexuality and heterosexuality are defined as sexual preferences.
Pedophilia is a desire to rape.* It may not be an individual's fault, but it is an inherently destructive desire. Rape always causes harm. Even if the individual never acts on the urge, it will likely have an effect on their mind, leading to, as you noted, potential suicide.

I will not stand silent while people use technicalities as a defense while they compare gay people (like myself) to rapists.

I will not stand silent while people use the proven-wrong slippery-slope fallacy to attack the gay community.

And I will Report any who attempt the above. Because they are homophobes hiding behind rational language and fallacious argument, and I will not stand silent and let homophobes attack me or those like me.

Edit: Oh, and one last thing. When people use the word pedophilia, 99.9% of the time, they mean those who have acted on it and raped one or more children. You can say "oh, it's a technicality, it's just a preference" all you like, but that's not what the purpose of using the argument you're defending is. The purpose is to compare gay people to rapists in the minds of that 99.9%, not to argue about the 0.1% who separate the meanings between desire from action.

Edit 2: * That is, the only way to fulfill such a desire would be to cause harm to a child. I do not mean to say that all pedophiles are rapists - many choose to be better people than that and never act on their desires. Why? Because they know that to act on it would he harmful. I do not mean to be insulting to those who choose not to harm, and I'm sorry if I implied otherwise.
 

Fappy

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I came away from Persona 4 thinking Kanji was more likely bisexual than anything else. He's actually one of my favorite characters from that game. It is probably the best the topic of sexual identity has ever been addressed in a mainstream game.

In my opinion games don't need more gay for the sake of it, they need more gay where it feels natural to the story. If you want your game to have commentary on contemporary culture it works well.
 

mew4ever23

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I see what you're saying, but it's really, really pointless. I'm not gonna care much about a character's sexuality while I'm busy defeating that massive dragon over there and saving the planet for the umpteenth time.

Give me a well written character that's likable, and I will like them. Otherwise... let's just say I will find a way to murder them.
 

CrimsonBlaze

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This is one of the things that irks me about gaming and media in general. When there is an obvious absence of a certain gender, race, sexual orientation, religious belief, etc., people tend to blame the creators of such media for being racist, [insert sexual orientation here]-phobes/phobic, anti-[insert religion here], etc. So some developers will just include an arbitrary or token character in the next work and people would either finally quiet down or complain about the lack of importance the token character has.

Listen people, if a certain gender, race, sexual orientation, religious belief, etc. is not featured in some media production, it's nothing personal; the creators just decided that they were not going to include that gender, race, sexual orientation, religious belief, etc. in the game and forcefully doing so will just diminish the integrity of the work as a whole. I'm glad that there are games like Persona 4 that dares to not only explore the sexuality of a main character, but also do it well. That doesn't mean that every game before it that didn't is bad, and it shows that games could be used as a medium to both explore and learn about other subjects including gender, race, sexual orientation, religious belief, etc.

In all my fictional works, to this day, I have only created one gay character and she is awesome. She's likable, funny, headstrong, caring, flirtatious, AND a lesbian. I didn't intend to portray her as a lesbian, I just did. Her sexuality doesn't play a huge role in the story, but the way she interacts with other characters and the way she approaches the world would have been completely different if she were straight, and even then, she would still be an awesome character.
 

VeneratedWulfen93

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Vault101 said:
VeneratedWulfen93 said:
Okay my comments were hurtful, I kinda meant for it to be because I'm a bit of a hateful prick. However I still want an answer to this resolved. People are born gay, can discover they are gay or move through a phase. They are called gay. people could be born a paedophile, discover they are one or move through a phase and these people are hated and abused rather than given the means to reform themselves. If its a sickness cure it, just remember that people once considered being gay an illness.

@mgirl It was my ignorance that caused that. I was unaware that paedophiles had to rape or whatever. I believed it was just the term for having sex with an under-age partner.
uh huh...so now your back peddling out of that double hole you dug

because you then took another non conventional but harmless relationship (age difference) and compared it to paedophilia...nice going

weather or not paedophelia is a sickness (it seems more like an unfortunate fetish but I'm no experet) It still should not be compared to homosexuality because aside from the "harms no one" factor..."what to do with paedophiles" is a SEPERATE issue alltogther...in regards to that people should understand you cant make people just "go away" there needs to be a solution for those to prevent them from offending...

I'm also somwhat bothered by your previous comments about england...I mean I could just as easyly say "well where I come from furries are everywhere and completly open about it! whats the problem bro?"
I don't see myself in a hole. people got offended by words I said on the internet. Oh my bleeding heart. Thank you for answering my question however and resolving the matter. I now know more than I did before which is why we ask questions. I can finally give my opinion on gay in games.

Its alright as it is. The few non-cliche characters we have are enough for now so long as a big deal isn't made of it. I had my suspicions of Dethmold in the Witcher but only had these confirmed when I burst into his room and let Roche chop his balls off then slit his throat. Not because he was gay but because he he was a dickhead.

As for the stuff about 'where I live' thats the point. I make my assumptions based on what I've experienced and like I said I never noticed a big deal. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen though but its just that in my area I've never seen nor heard of anything about stuff like drastic beatings of people. Each new experience is something to consider and revise my opinions upon.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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Boudica said:
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm very bisexual (well, kind of pansexual with my various kinks) and am not meaning to insult any sexuality, but heterosexuality and homosexuality mean what? You are attracted to certain groups. It doesn't mean you want to rape them. So while any act a pedophile committed on a child would indeed be rape (a child can never consent) it's hurtful to say they WANT to rape anyone.

My problem is, if we keep treating pedophiles and child molesters like synonyms, we will never get closer to helping prevent the problem. We need to allow people with desires to come forward and help them not to act on them.

Can you see where I'm coming from? I want to help people that want help, not defend child molesters.
See my Edited post above. You are part of that 0.1% who understands the difference in that definition. You are not the target of the slippery-slope argument. That argument exists for one and only one purpose - to create fear about homosexuals and bisexuals like yourself and myself.

You can try to help people all you like. I'm going to go on with my attacks on those homophobes who hide behind paper thin definitions and subtle manipulation of facts to slander the gay community. On this forum, that means Reporting them.
 

Sneezeburger

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Boudica said:
Bara_no_Hime said:
Boudica said:
While I agree that the comparison is rather... shitty, they are right in the sense that pedophilia is a sexual preference (and a perversion, mind) and both homosexuality and heterosexuality are defined as sexual preferences.
Pedophilia is a desire to rape. It may not be an individual's fault, but it is an inherently destructive desire. Rape always causes harm. Even if the individual never acts on the urge, it will likely have an effect on their mind, leading to, as you noted, potential suicide.

I will not stand silent while people use technicalities as a defense while they compare gay people (like myself) to rapists.

I will not stand silent while people use the proven-wrong slippery-slope fallacy to attack the gay community.

And I will Report any who attempt the above. Because they are homophobes hiding behind rational language and fallacious argument, and I will not stand silent and let homophobes attack me or those like me.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm very bisexual (well, kind of pansexual with my various kinks) and am not meaning to insult any sexuality, but heterosexuality and homosexuality mean what? You are attracted to certain groups. It doesn't mean you want to rape them. So while any act a pedophile committed on a child would indeed be rape (a child can never consent) it's hurtful to say they WANT to rape anyone.

My problem is, if we keep treating pedophiles and child molesters like synonyms, we will never get closer to helping prevent the problem. We need to allow people with desires to come forward and help them not to act on them.

Can you see where I'm coming from? I want to help people that want help, not defend child molesters.
@Boudica

I have to say, regardless of if i agree or not - i respect you at least articulating your arguement honestly and as unoffensively as possible.

In terms of humanity, your probably right. But whoever has the job of re-educating or reforming or whatever it is we do to help people born that way..i wouldn't want it.

I think its a difficult issue, and frankly most of the discussion over it comes from people without the right mix of Objectivity and Experience (a pretty impossible request i know) that would conclude a truly 'correct' answer.

But i have to say when i hear the word pedophile i think active child predator. As do a lot of people, maybe a different word for people who have noticed there perversion but have not acted upon it, and wish help? I know pedophile is already the correct term for that but i think its been redefined as an active child rapist in alot (too many to change) peoples minds.

I don't know, honestly.
 

Maxtro

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Feb 13, 2011
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Boudica said:
Maxtro said:
I would simply not play a game that had a homosexual lead.
How do you know any of the women or men you've played as, from Mario to Samus, aren't gay or bi? Did they tell you?
And that's the key. Their sexuality isn't important and most people just assume those characters are heterosexual anyways.

But if it ever, came out, that Mario and Donkey Kong, etc are officially gay, I would never play one of their games again.