Poll: Gay Marriage

[Faps]

Only on paper, but no church, since the church has been against homosexuality for 2000 years so that would be blasphemy

But you used to go to Hell for eating meat on a friday so why can't they change their opinion on gay marriage?

 

[vamp rocks]

People are not born gay. There is no basis for it in evolutionary theory (in development centered around reproduction for continuation of a species, why would homosexuality, which produces no offspring, be mutated into someone?), and if you believe in creation, to Bible speaks out against homosexuality, so it would not be something created by God, but something corrupted by Satan. Either way, homosexuality is not biological: it is a choice.

id have to disagree with you...

altho i dont think there is a "gay gene" or something like that i do not beleive it is a choice.. i myself am gay and i didnt wake up one morning and be like.. "hmmm.. you know what.. im gonna like guys now just for the hell of it..." i just started noticing guys more than girls... i wish it was a fucking choice because then i would have been straight... for six years i tried to deny i was gay.. i tried dating and having sex with girls and the only way i could do it was by thinking about a guy the entire way through.. i didnt want to be gay but i have come to terms with the fact that it is who i am...

so please, dont sit there and preach saying being gay is a choice.. when you dont know anything of the matter.. did you sit there when you hit puberty and think... "hmmm.. you know what i think im gonna go with the girls..." no, you didnt.. you just noticed that girls were attractive to you and guys werent... the same way the gay people notice guys and not girls

 

[Mekado]

Who cares if someone wanna marry someone else the same sex as they are ? I really don't see what the problem is there ?

-Yeah but it'll give them adoption right!
So ? many gay people i know would be much better parents than many straight white-trash homegrown heterosexual couples i know
-Yeah but it'll be awkward to explain to their kids
So ? is that YOUR problem ? if they see fit to live with someone the same-sex, i'm guessing they've had their share of explaining difference to someone else, i'm willing to bet they won't see a problem explaining it to their kids
-Marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman
Says who ? the church ? the same church that's been "loving" their altar boys for centuries ? the same church that was at his strongest during the middle-ages (where homosexuality definitely wasn't a problem or a stigma) see the irony there ? I believe marriage is a sacred union *between 2 people that loves each other*

Then again, the church (especially the catholic one, don't hate me i'm catholic! ) was never a bastion of innovation, they have a very hard time accepting same-sex marriage, but bear in mind to *truely* obey the church you're also not supposed to use condoms or any sort of birth control and no sex before marriage(so anyone really do this because of the church?)

Most of the "problems" i've seen people having with same-sex marrige has to do with religion, are we not secularized yet ?

Note : funny thing is i do believe there is a god, i also believe he's NOT the stern "don't do that!" father figure the church says him to be.I really think he couldn't give a flying fu*k about same-sex marriage as long as we live "a good life" Really if we were supposed to follow a phonebook (have you seen the bible?) of rules and regulations we'd have been born robots.

 

[Captain Blackout]

I started my own church. We are looking to eventually sue the state over gay marriage based on religious discrimination. How dare you tell me I can't marry the person God blessed through a Taoist minister.

One other thing to anyone interested: I did the math, the gay gene(s) exists.

What "math" would that be?

FYI: see the debate about the gay gene between me and NinjaX before replying. ( pg 9 of this thread)

1: Genetics isn't strictly "survival of the fittest". It's far more interesting and fascinating than that. Too many people use boiled down Darwinism to supplant a fuller comprehension.

2: Sexuality isn't either/or. An entire spectrum exists and much of it is influenced by aspects that are genetically grounded.

3: Homosexuality was endorsed in ancient Sparta in such a way as to promote the flooding of the species with genes that would help influence towards homosexuality and bi-sexuality.

This list goes on and on and on, and each point has a far fuller explanation but I thought this would make a good start to preserve wall-o-texting.

 

[MatumbeJack]

The fact that it is still illegal ANYWHERE is absolutely fucking awful!
The church insists that homosexuality is wrong. Well as OP said gays are born gay and they are no different from heteros. Same species and same DNA isn't it? The church is a terrible terrible thing (well, all religion is).
I fight for gay rights entirely and believe there should be nothing to stop 2 men or 2 women from expressing their eternal love for one another

Okay, this I couldn't let go.

People are not born gay. There is no basis for it in evolutionary theory (in development centered around reproduction for continuation of a species, why would homosexuality, which produces no offspring, be mutated into someone?), and if you believe in creation, to Bible speaks out against homosexuality, so it would not be something created by God, but something corrupted by Satan. Either way, homosexuality is not biological: it is a choice.

And you are being completely intolerant of religion, and no offense, but usually when people are, it is out of ignorance. Some religions are horrible, yes, but not religion as a whole. Not at all.

Evolution is an imperfect mechanism, and offspring are prone to mutation, which in itself makes a genetic basis for homosexuality entirely possible. Changes take place so slowly that even useless or harmful genes are kept in circulation for quite a length of time.

Whether or not homosexuality is inborn or elective is a deeper and more complex issue than most posters seem to realize.

There is not a specific lump of DNA code that urges same-sex relations - it may indeed be a complex network of genetic misfirings interfering with human psychosexual development, offsetting the physiological climate of the brain through chemical imbalance, or a whole messy plethora of other possibilities.

More importantly, most contemporary studies of human sexuality have found that the natural human animal averages out to something we would recognize as effective bisexuality. This is obviously underrepresented, but reasons for this are thought to lay in cultural discouraging of such behavior.

Also, could someone define what they mean when they say it is 'by choice'?

 

[DrDeath3191]

I believe gay marriage should be legal. A man and a woman should be able to be married regardless of their sexual preferences.

-That means I voted 'no'-

 

[Faps]

Only on paper, but no church, since the church has been against homosexuality for 2000 years so that would be blasphemy

But you used to go to Hell for eating meat on a friday so why can't they change their opinion on gay marriage?

what you eat meat on friday??!! (just joking)

Well they have preached against it much harder than eating on friday, and they cant just go around changing holy law, its not up to them to change things anyway, some things are better left the way they are.

That is a silly view, the church will continue to lessen in importance if it doesn't change and adapt to the modern world. The core principles of Christianity are peace and love, denying a group of people the right to show and consummate their love in the eyes of god because people 2000 years ago didn't like it is just too daft for words.

 

[Semitendon]

well, i'm gay so im obviously for it... lol

people should be able to marry whomever they choose..

one of the arguments i have heard agaianst gay marriage is that people said that if gay marriage is allowed it will be taught in schools that gay marriage is legal. Well, yes, yes it will. And what's so bad about that? Isn't it appropriate that us, and our future kids are taught state law? And if that's in violation of anyone's religious rights, let's stop celebrating holidays like Martin Luther King Day and stop racial equality from being taught in our schools. Let's make blacks and whites drink from different water fountains again! After all, they're "different", kind of the same way that gays are "different" than straights?

Allow me to clarify.

1. The church goers aren't really all about the legal aspect as they are the moral one. From their point of view, if homosexual marriage is legal, than the idea that the gay lifestyle is ok begins to be accepted and then taught. They don't like this mainly because they don't want their kids being told that something that is clearly outlined in the Bible as wrong, is ok. Although you didn't say it, I am also going to throw this in here to: Most religious people are not hateful, raging, maniacs who want to kill homosexuals. They are people who happen to disagree with the homosexual lifestyle based on their religion. ( that's not to say that there aren't hateful, raging, maniacs out there, it's just a much smaller amount than people are led to believe.)

2. The "being gay is the same as being black", argument holds no water at all. Gay people are not born gay, ( for more on this, see the debate between Ninja X and myself on pg 9 of this thread) whereas black people are born black.

 

[Faps]

Only on paper, but no church, since the church has been against homosexuality for 2000 years so that would be blasphemy

But you used to go to Hell for eating meat on a friday so why can't they change their opinion on gay marriage?

what you eat meat on friday??!! (just joking)

Well they have preached against it much harder than eating on friday, and they cant just go around changing holy law, its not up to them to change things anyway, some things are better left the way they are.

That is a silly view, the church will continue to lessen in importance if it doesn't change and adapt to the modern world. The core principles of Christianity are peace and love, denying a group of people the right to show and consummate their love in the eyes of god because people 2000 years ago didn't like it is just too daft for words.

That your subjective opinion not what everyone else thinks, the primary point of the church being that marriage is the union of a man and woman under god, and they are expected to make children and form the natural bond as they should, whilst gay marriage wont produce anything, other than adopted children that will 100% be gay as well, and the church shouldnt adopt to everything modern, in that way under the cross there would be a coca cola sign

There is absolutely no proof that children adopted by a gay family will be gay themselves, that is such an ignorant and small minded view.

 

[MatumbeJack]

well, i'm gay so im obviously for it... lol

people should be able to marry whomever they choose..

one of the arguments i have heard agaianst gay marriage is that people said that if gay marriage is allowed it will be taught in schools that gay marriage is legal. Well, yes, yes it will. And what's so bad about that? Isn't it appropriate that us, and our future kids are taught state law? And if that's in violation of anyone's religious rights, let's stop celebrating holidays like Martin Luther King Day and stop racial equality from being taught in our schools. Let's make blacks and whites drink from different water fountains again! After all, they're "different", kind of the same way that gays are "different" than straights?

Allow me to clarify.

1. The church goers aren't really all about the legal aspect as they are the moral one. From their point of view, if homosexual marriage is legal, than the idea that the gay lifestyle is ok begins to be accepted and then taught. They don't like this mainly because they don't want their kids being told that something that is clearly outlined in the Bible as wrong, is ok. Although you didn't say it, I am also going to throw this in here to: Most religious people are not hateful, raging, maniacs who want to kill homosexuals. They are people who happen to disagree with the homosexual lifestyle based on their religion. ( that's not to say that there aren't hateful, raging, maniacs out there, it's just a much smaller amount than people are led to believe.)

2. The "being gay is the same as being black", argument holds no water at all. Gay people are not born gay, ( for more on this, see the debate between Ninja X and myself on pg 9 of this thread) whereas black people are born black.

Wait, they're not 'born homosexual?'

How do you know that when most respectable psychological, genetic, and medical professionals admit that they don't have (and that there currently does not exist) a concrete answer? I'd like to see your basis for this blunt and generalized conclusion.

 

[Doug]

2. The "being gay is the same as being black", argument holds no water at all. Gay people are not born gay, ( for more on this, see the debate between Ninja X and myself on pg 9 of this thread) whereas black people are born black.

Wait, they're not 'born homosexual?'

How do you know that when most respectable psychological, genetic, and medical professionals admit that they don't have (and that there currently does not exist) a concrete answer? I'd like to see your basis for this blunt and generalized conclusion.

Agreed, there is currently uncertainy in science about if 'gayness' is environmental or genetic - seems like a mix of both. Add to that, you can't 'debate out the truth' unless you have solid evidence and interruptation of that evidence which is rational. Not that I've read your debate, so you might be quoting scientific journal, just that most forum debates don't.

 

[CrashBang]

The fact that it is still illegal ANYWHERE is absolutely fucking awful!
The church insists that homosexuality is wrong. Well as OP said gays are born gay and they are no different from heteros. Same species and same DNA isn't it? The church is a terrible terrible thing (well, all religion is).
I fight for gay rights entirely and believe there should be nothing to stop 2 men or 2 women from expressing their eternal love for one another

Okay, this I couldn't let go.

People are not born gay. There is no basis for it in evolutionary theory (in development centered around reproduction for continuation of a species, why would homosexuality, which produces no offspring, be mutated into someone?), and if you believe in creation, to Bible speaks out against homosexuality, so it would not be something created by God, but something corrupted by Satan. Either way, homosexuality is not biological: it is a choice.

And you are being completely intolerant of religion, and no offense, but usually when people are, it is out of ignorance. Some religions are horrible, yes, but not religion as a whole. Not at all.

Give me proof that people are not born gay. I have several gay friends and all discovered their attraction to men during puberty. They never made any conscious choice.
And I'm not ignorant. I was christened, sent to a Church of England school, studied RE and came to the conclusion that people believe in heaven and hell out of a fear of no afterlife. People believe in God in order to have a feeling of guidance and an imaginary friend to turn to when shit hits the fan. I cannot understand why, in this day and age, people still choose to worship a higher being. Man is stronger than God.
And the fact that the Bible states that homosexuals are corrupted by Satan PROVES that christianity is a terrible (and ignorant, very very ignorant) thing

 

[cobra_ky]

I have one thing which I am confused about, How is someone "born" gay??

If memory serves there is no way this is at all possible. If you believe in evolution, then it is survival of the fittest. Any genetic gene inspiring homosexuality would be fazed out immediately, due to the fact that a creature which cannot reproduce is automatically resigned to extinction. And since evolution takes millions of years to accomplish, then it is logical to assume that there were cavemen and cavewomen with the gay gene. Since they relied mostly on instinct they would have followed on their sexual urges, and promptly caused their own extinction. Some would say " but Semi, we have proof that animals follow homosexual urges" I just don't see the connection there. My dog will hump anything, even a human leg, it's not so much a matter of reproduction as it is a matter of brain power. Humans can immediately identify another human they want to have sex with, animals seem to hump anything they can mount.

there's a number of problems with the science in you argument, and i don't know enough about biology to explain them all, but here's a few errors:

1. Homosexuals are capable of reproduction. Even if you're attracted to the same gender, societal pressure or other factors may still cause you to have heterosexual intercourse. ironically, "gay genes" survived because the idea of gay sex was quashed instead.

2. Sexuality is much, much more than just sexual reproduction. Gay animals don't just hump each other; they live together, raise children, and engage in other, non-sexual activities generally reserved for mating pairs. <a href=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8096453.stm>here's an example

EDIT: not to mention the fact that recessive genes exist.

And if you go for the church view, God hasn't created any homosexuals.

depends on which church you get your views from.

Personally, I think homosexuality is a matter of environment rather than being "born that way" We know that certain people raised in a certain environment will be drawn to certain things. Often these people may not like what they are drawn to, and desire to change the patterns in their life, but it never seems to work. i.e. the woman continually attracted to abusive males. I think homosexuality is like that, not a conscious choice, and an all together natural urge feeling, but is not actually developed at birth.

It's difficult to say. I think it's a confluence of factors, both social and biological. Gender and sexual identity are both subjects science knows astoundingly little about, as both seem to be related with the early development of brain structure.

 

[Semitendon]

I started my own church. We are looking to eventually sue the state over gay marriage based on religious discrimination. How dare you tell me I can't marry the person God blessed through a Taoist minister.

One other thing to anyone interested: I did the math, the gay gene(s) exists.

What "math" would that be?

FYI: see the debate about the gay gene between me and NinjaX before replying. ( pg 9 of this thread)

1: Genetics isn't strictly "survival of the fittest". It's far more interesting and fascinating than that. Too many people use boiled down Darwinism to supplant a fuller comprehension.

2: Sexuality isn't either/or. An entire spectrum exists and much of it is influenced by aspects that are genetically grounded.

3: Homosexuality was endorsed in ancient Sparta in such a way as to promote the flooding of the species with genes that would help influence towards homosexuality and bi-sexuality.

This list goes on and on and on, and each point has a far fuller explanation but I thought this would make a good start to preserve wall-o-texting.

Lets look at your points one by one.

1. Okay, so I did use the old term to describe evolution. I realize that it is a more complex system than just "survival of the fittest" but the more complicated aspects of it only further my point.

2. I agree that sexuality is genetically grounded, that's how we ( and other species) are able to reproduce. Which is exactly my point, there is a reason we all have sex. Let me simplify my view: A species which cannot reproduce, has no place in the evolutionary system.

3. I don't really understand what you are going for here. I am guessing that you are equating the spartans with prehistoric man in an effort to prove that man would have given thought to the continuation of his own species. If I am right in this assumption, than your equation Spartan = prehistoric man is really ( as you say) bad "math", but maybe I got your meaning mixed up, so please clarify this one for me.

 

[TheTygerfire]

The simple truth is- homosexuality is born not chosen.

THIS 1000X THIS

You can't chose to be gay. What people don't get is that being gay and being effeminate are separate things. Take away the lisp and the teenage girl attitude and they're still gay.

FYI, I hate flamers like Perez Hilton that make everyone uncomfortable. if you watch Bruno, that's how a gay person SHOULDN'T act.

 

[cobra_ky]

And Ninja, evolution never would have developed the "gay gene" in the first place. For some reason, evolution says that we went from asexual reproduction to sexual reproduction (which seems less efficient to me, but whatever), which would have been heterosexual, of course. A "gay gene" would never have been developed in the first place.

Genes are introduced via random mutation. i'm not sure how this precludes a "gay gene" from existing.

 

[Semitendon]

2. The "being gay is the same as being black", argument holds no water at all. Gay people are not born gay, ( for more on this, see the debate between Ninja X and myself on pg 9 of this thread) whereas black people are born black.

Wait, they're not 'born homosexual?'

How do you know that when most respectable psychological, genetic, and medical professionals admit that they don't have (and that there currently does not exist) a concrete answer? I'd like to see your basis for this blunt and generalized conclusion.

Agreed, there is currently uncertainy in science about if 'gayness' is environmental or genetic - seems like a mix of both. Add to that, you can't 'debate out the truth' unless you have solid evidence and interruptation of that evidence which is rational. Not that I've read your debate, so you might be quoting scientific journal, just that most forum debates don't.

No, I admit, no scientific journals here. I, like everyone else here, am stating my opinion. One of the reasons I do this is for people to come up with a case against what I think. In this way I hope to either justify my position or have someone logically point out where the holes are in my theory. I am not here to fight, flame, or get everyone pissed. I am here to learn.