Poll: Gay Marriage

[Doug]

being lesbian, married and catholic, i guess i have a fairly good view on all that debate...

May I ask; what do you think of the UK's system, where homosexual marriage is simply called "Civil Union" and has all the benefits of heterosexual marriage?

i will quote myself

Second, it's an emotional thing. Remeber one thing. you are never raised gay. What i mean is that probably every parents raise their child as an heterosexual child. And it's ok and normal. Because homosexuality is generally only "declared" at puberty. So, when you grow you devellop an emotional view of marriage (ok it's probably more true for girls i admit). But when i was a child, i was playing with barbies dolls which is married with ken, we used to fantasise on what my marriage could look like, or who i will marry someday. then i'm 15 years old and i realise that i'm gay. it doesnt change that i was dreaming to be married someday when i was young or my emotional view on the thing. So to me the word mean something.

On a legal stand point. Civil union, if they give the same benefits as marriage (but it's not laways the case) is a good thing. But like i said the word itself mean something too. it have an emotional weight. i like to say that i'm married, not that civily united...

and in some place, gays can only have only civil union, but atheist can be married in a courthouse. if it's the same thing, why atheist can be married ?

I'm guessing its because a bunch of old religious farts start freting when they see marriage being allowed for gay people. But they'll die off sooner or later. Personally, I don't see why there has to be a difference between gay and straight marriage; especially with the social break downs over here.

 

[George Palmer]

woah...thats a slippery slope right there! Next thing you know people will want to marry turtles and pumpkins and fruit bats and stones and small patches of grass and...

...wait...let me remove my "stupid hat"....there much better...

People should be allowed to marry who ever they want.

 

[Faps]

There is absolutely no proof that children adopted by a gay family will be gay themselves, that is such an ignorant and small minded view.

oh please at least 90% turn out gay, its a fact, you grow up in the belief that its how its supposed to be and that you should be like your parents, its how a child's brain evolves by learning from its parents, maybe not in tv shows but thats the reality,perhaps you are the closed minded one. Heres a tip, visit other countries and see their view on religion and homosexuality, not every nation is USA or Scandinavia, im speaking for all people and all churches not just one place.

Can you prove this "fact"?

Maybe you should just think this through, if a child is so influenced by it's parents sexuality how do gay people even exist since they must be the child of straight parents.

 

[Assassin Xaero]

Why harm does it do letting them get married? None. Let them. And for fuck's sake... some women is marrying a roller coaster... and two people of the same gender still can't get married?

 

[cathou]

oh please at least 90% turn out gay, its a fact, you grow up in the belief that its how its supposed to be and that you should be like your parents, its how a child's brain evolves by learning from its parents, maybe not in tv shows but thats the reality,perhaps you are the closed minded one. Heres a tip, visit other countries and see their view on religion and homosexuality, not every nation is USA or Scandinavia, im speaking for all people and all churches not just one place.

hummm, if it's the case, why nearly 99% of gays come from straight family. My paretn were straight, my wife's parent were straight. in fact, every gay i know have straight parents. How strange since i grew up with the belief that straight was how it was supposed to be and that i should be like my parents...

 

[Bigeyez]

Only on paper, but no church, since the church has been against homosexuality for 2000 years so that would be blasphemy

But you used to go to Hell for eating meat on a friday so why can't they change their opinion on gay marriage?

what you eat meat on friday??!! (just joking)

Well they have preached against it much harder than eating on friday, and they cant just go around changing holy law, its not up to them to change things anyway, some things are better left the way they are.

That is a silly view, the church will continue to lessen in importance if it doesn't change and adapt to the modern world. The core principles of Christianity are peace and love, denying a group of people the right to show and consummate their love in the eyes of god because people 2000 years ago didn't like it is just too daft for words.

That your subjective opinion not what everyone else thinks, the primary point of the church being that marriage is the union of a man and woman under god, and they are expected to make children and form the natural bond as they should, whilst gay marriage wont produce anything, other than adopted children that will 100% be gay as well, and the church shouldnt adopt to everything modern, in that way under the cross there would be a coca cola sign

There is absolutely no proof that children adopted by a gay family will be gay themselves, that is such an ignorant and small minded view.

oh please at least 90% turn out gay, its a fact, you grow up in the belief that its how its supposed to be and that you should be like your parents, its how a child's brain evolves by learning from its parents, maybe not in tv shows but thats the reality,perhaps you are the closed minded one. Heres a tip, visit other countries and see their view on religion and homosexuality, not every nation is USA or Scandinavia, im speaking for all people and all churches not just one place.

And again I'm quoting you. First of all don't just make shit up like your doing here. It makes you look stupid and ignorant. Secondly by your logic everyone whos the offspring of a murderer, thief, or pyscho ends up being a murderer, thief, or pyshco. What about cases of twins where no parents are gay but one twin ends up gay, the other doesn't? According to your logic that shouldn't be possible because they were both raised in a straight household.

What about kids raised in gay households that are 100% straight? Again please don't make shit up. It just makes you look bad.

 

[rdaleric]

I don't really understand some religious people saying homosexuality is "against god" (like the awful picketing of AIDS vitims' funerals with "God hates fags" signs). If god made everyone, then this must mean god (if indeed you believe in such an entity) made homosexual people. So basically live and let live!

 

[Agema]

What about kids raised in gay households that are 100% straight? Again please don't make shit up. It just makes you look bad.

To be fair, he's possibly not making shit up, but telling us shit some other lying scumbag made up that he was told. After all, many bigots probably believe that 90% of kids brought up by bigots will turn out to be bigots, so they're pretty keen to spread their nonsense around.

 

[pwnzerstick]

I've actually given speeches on why it should be legal. Those speeches were in high school, granted, but still, my position is clear and adamant.

I live in California.

Irony is a *****. A stupid *****.

I live in Texas and I'm pro-gay rights

well ever since prop 8 passed it was ironic

 

[trelloskilos]

its adam and eve not adam and steve

OMFG! It's like...the wittiest thing anyone has...like....said on this forum...like...EVAR!




It wasn't even Adam & Eve for a start. I'm not going to bash the bible, but the early stories of Genesis are just that. Stories. - In the beginning, there was no-one around to write down what God did in the days before he created man.

...and if you are going to alienate an entire group of people from having the same rights as anyone else, try to establish actual reasons, rather than reading something off a T-Shirt in Westboro.

 

[ragamuffingirl]

I'm speaking only as an American woman:

The only problem with gay marriage would be a religious one and religion should play no part in US Government affairs. Sadly, I know that religion plays a huge part, particularly right wing "Christian" ideals, but it shouldn't. It seems on both sides of the US political fence (because we have no other choices given and no in between or moderate figure heads to speak of)you have politicians picking which pseudo-religious issue they want to use for publicity which will get grandma in Iowa to vote for them. It's not about personal freedom or dictionary definitions it's about power and money.

 

[DrDeath3191]

I don't really understand some religious people saying homosexuality is "against god" (like the awful picketing of AIDS vitims' funerals with "God hates fags" signs). If god made everyone, then this must mean god (if indeed you believe in such an entity) made homosexual people. So basically live and let live!

By that logic, God also made serial killers, rapists, and terrorists. Should we 'live and let live' for those people?
I'm not trying to compare gay people to terrorists or anything, but that logic is kind of silly.

And I just want to say this: Christians don't view homosexuality as a sin. That's a preference, that's something you can't help. What Christians view as sinful is having sex with someone of the same gender. The difference is that the latter is an action one chooses to do.

 

[Bigeyez]

its adam and eve not adam and steve

OMFG! It's like...the wittiest thing anyone has...like....said on this forum...like...EVAR!




It wasn't even Adam & Eve for a start. I'm not going to bash the bible, but the early stories of Genesis are just that. Stories. - In the beginning, there was no-one around to write down what God did in the days before he created man.

...and if you are going to alienate an entire group of people from having the same rights as anyone else, try to establish actual reasons, rather than reading something off a T-Shirt in Westboro.

Heh not only that but if you look at the early stories that used to be in the bible but were later taken out in our modern bible you find out that Eve was actually Adams second wife and his first was a woman named lilith that refused to serve under Adam and left the Garden of Eden. So what does that tell you about "Till Death Do Us Part" eh? haha but thats entirely off topic.

 

[Suikun]

Wow, reading through this thread gives me hope for humanity as a whole to not be biggoted idiots any longer. I'm reminded of a comic...

Spoiler

But truth be told, I'm not for gay marriage. A few people have said this already and I think it's a very valid point; marriage should be religious and shouldn't have state-based authority. This goes against the whole separation of church/state thing that our country was founded on.

"Civil Union" might not sound as fancy shmancy, but everyone should have a union rather than "marriage", opting to marry because of the religious rite, and union for the government bonuses. I believe it was England that had something about having marriage and civil unions grant the same exact rights just under different names, thus nixing the entire religious wrench thrown into the problem.

Being gay is a choice.

Forgive me for not finding the poster who put this in and quoting him directly, but I think that there's a few things I can throw in here, having done quote a bit of research on the subject. (Coming out for me wasn't pretty, and I had to prove to my parents that being gay was biological rather than a choice, or else they were going to send me to therapy to get me fixed.)

ALRIGHTY; first off there is numerous studies that have found that the right brain is larger in straight males and gay females than that of straight female's/gay male's. Evidence #1.

#2: Studies have found that the more males born to a mother, the more likely (as each son comes) that the child will be gay. The uterus' chemistry changes, and I'm going to guess it has something to do with the uterus providing more estrogen in place of testosterone with each male, and I'm also guessing that the inverse is also true for each female offspring.

#3: Homosexuality is rampant in nature. It's hard to argue that it's a choice, when animals who don't have the ability of higher thinking are doing it too.

#4: The hippocampus (not sure if I spelled it right, sorry), also is evidence. In gay males, the hippocampus is smaller than in straight males. The inverse is true for females (gay females have a bigger hippocampus than straight females).

#5: The oldest argument in the book. Go outside and look around. Choose someone, completely at random, to fall head-over-heels in love with. Regardless of what they look like, who they are, what gender they are, et cetera, you must fall completely and totally in love with them the way you'd do with a potential person of your choice. Can you do it? Of course not. This is outlining the same exact argument saying that it's a choice: you can chose who you love. Try it some time and tell me your results.


These are just five of the things that I can think of off the top of my head that support it's at least a good part biological. However, it is true that there are environmental factors that come into play (or so studies suggest) as well as the whole biological backup. But regardless of who/what/when/where you are, that's your business and why the hell should some bigoted, [religious text]-thumping, conservative jackass be right about who you are and what is or isn't right or wrong.

Last time I checked, loving someone never caused harm. Isn't that what "sin" entails? That it does something negative to the person who is being sinned against? Go through and check, and you'll find in every reasonable instance that this is true (murder, theft, lies, etc).

 

[Go Fighting In The War Room]

Seriously, there is no problem with it. Legalize it. There is nothing wrong with homosexuality and gay marriage. My mom works in the fashion buisness, and I've met alot of gay couples through her and all I can say is, what's wrong with it?

 

[rdaleric]

I don't really understand some religious people saying homosexuality is "against god" (like the awful picketing of AIDS vitims' funerals with "God hates fags" signs). If god made everyone, then this must mean god (if indeed you believe in such an entity) made homosexual people. So basically live and let live!

By that logic, God also made serial killers, rapists, and terrorists. Should we 'live and let live' for those people?
I'm not trying to compare gay people to terrorists or anything, but that logic is kind of silly.

And I just want to say this: Christians don't view homosexuality as a sin. That's a preference, that's something you can't help. What Christians view as sinful is having sex with someone of the same gender. The difference is that the latter is an action one chooses to do.

This is true, But i meant homosexuality as a preference, but anyway thats my fault for not explaining. Oh and a lot of Christians tend not to bother to differentiate between what you discribed, I myself have witnessed a gay couple walking hand in hand having " dont do that near us it's against god" shouted at them

 

[Jzolr0708]

There are two people who don't want Gay Marriage: Some Christians, and the "marriage is sacred" group/


I'm a Christian (Yes, yes, the rotten tomatoes and fruit are right over there) but for the love of God I think gay rights should be legal. I'm pretty sure that if the whole basis of my religion is that God LOVES Us and gave the ONLY SON he'd ever have for us, I'm fairly certain he's not going to make us burn in hell for having our soul mate be the same sex.

So then there's the point that Marriage is reserved to heterosexuals, and that it's sacred. To that I say BULL-SHIT. Marriage is basically a legalization of partnership between two people, and SHOULD be because they love each other. Gay couples probably love each other now more than most straight couples, seeing as we have more people inline for divorce these days than children at the Ice Cream truck on Free Ice cream day.

My point is, Homosexuality is FINE. I might not be Homosexual, but if my friend came out of the closet I'd support him. And if he made a petition about legalizing Gay Marriage, I'd sure as hell sign it.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Here is my position (Said to a homosexual friend):

"I dislike the idea of doing what you are doing, sir, but by God I will fight, maim and kill anyone who attempts to stop you from doing it!"


Interestingly, god actually dosen't mind homosexuality. It's just one of those amusing little things that's turned up in humanity, like chemical warfare, directory enquiries and Thai food.

 

[Bigeyez]

Wow, reading through this thread gives me hope for humanity as a whole to not be biggoted idiots any longer. I'm reminded of a comic...

Spoiler

But truth be told, I'm not for gay marriage. A few people have said this already and I think it's a very valid point; marriage should be religious and shouldn't have state-based authority. This goes against the whole separation of church/state thing that our country was founded on.

"Civil Union" might not sound as fancy shmancy, but everyone should have a union rather than "marriage", opting to marry because of the religious rite, and union for the government bonuses. I believe it was England that had something about having marriage and civil unions grant the same exact rights just under different names, thus nixing the entire religious wrench thrown into the problem.
*snip*

My disagreement with you here is that the Church or in this case the Catholic Church does not "own" marriage. Church ceromonies taking place in Christian churches is something that happened in the last ohh 400 years so in the span of things is actually kind of "new" when you think about it. While I'm not saying Churches should be forced to have gay marriages I see no reason why we need to change what the union is called. Gay marriages existed long before the rise of the Roman Catholiscm and will continue to exist.

Furthermore most marriages in olden times had NOTHING to do with the church. They either involved the gov't or no one at all. You simply decided you wanted to get married, had some witnesses, a ceremony and you were married. No church involvement at all.

In my mind anything less is still discrimination. It's like saying we should call marriages between blacks civil unions. Discrimination is discrimination is discrimination.

 

[dwightsteel]

Seriously, I don't get why this debate hasn't ended yet. This whole topic seriously blows my mind. I just can't wrap my head around it.

I mean, honestly? People talk about the institution of marriage, throwing around words like "sacred" and "sanctity", and then pretend that almost half of all marriages in the United States don't end, not in "till death to us part", but in "divorce, I get half your shit". And do I even need to bring up marital infidelity? It's estimated that anywhere between 30 to 60% of marriages in the U.S. will have a cheating spouse at some point in the relationship (look up Buss and Shackelford for the research). In fact, biological evidence (i.e., research on biology and reproduction) indicates that long-term monogamy is difficult for humans to achieve (see Barash and Lipton). Marriage hasn't been a "sacred" institution for a very long time.

With that being said, what difference does it make if two people of the same sex wish for that bond? Why should other people get to decide whether what they have for each other is "worthy" of a piece of paper that says they're married?

It's all hypocritical bullshit that religious conservatives wish to push on the populace. We don't live in the dark ages anymore, folks. We are supposed be moving past stupid prejudices. And nothing, in my book, is more stupid then ostracizing a group of people just because they aren't sexually attracted to the same gender that I am. That's should be about as important for other people as one persons preference for apples over oranges.