Poll: Gender Identity

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Nimcha

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Nimcha said:
That's... completely different.
It's always completely different.

First, sexuality is independent of gender. I am first and foremost female.
Okay, that doesn't have anything to do with why you would choose a divisive label. Yes, sex and gender identity are different. So what? What has that got to do with the question at hand?

Second, people should be free to choose their own label. If someone identifies as female or male or intersex or whatever, I will respect that.
That also doesn't answer the question of why you would choose a divisive label, only that you are free to choose. Which I don't think anyone's contesting. You argued that the cis label was not productive and that it was divisive. Dividing people on sexuality works on the same level, by any apparent reasoning I can arrive at on your behalf. You've argued they're completely different, but not made a case for why or answered why you would actually choose to counterproductively and divisively label yourself. Now, is it your right? Absolutely. But that doesn't address anything of relevance here.
I've already answered that in another post. I do not feel the need to divide further since I don't think there is much of a difference between me and, for example, my aforementioned friend. Or can my friend now identify as cis as well, since her biological sex (visible parts anyway) and gender identity now do line up as desired? Apparently not, because cis implies you had those things at birth. So even though me and my friend are now identical in both gender identity and sexual 'parts' there is still supposed to be a different label for both of us. I object to that.

As for the gay label, that part's not gonna change. There is actually a big difference between me and a heterosexual female. Hence the label.
 

mitchell271

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A gaming site is mostly heteronormative males. And no one is surprised.
Cool that we have some diversity though!
 

Nimcha

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MarsAtlas said:
Nimcha said:
Good thing that I didn't say any of that then! Labels are very useful indeed. I do actually, as you say, have an objection to the cis label itself. I've literally said that. You're arguing a strawman here, we pretty much agree on labels in general.
Then why would you ever have a problem with the label "cis"? Its a simple descriptor label, no different from "brunette", "student", "hemophiliac", or "heterosexual".
I've explained in an earlier post. It creates extra division where there sometimes is, for all intents and purposes, none.
 

Evil Moo

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Feb 26, 2011
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MarsAtlas said:
Evil Moo said:
I am biologically male, so to identify as anything else would simply be inaccurate. At the same time I don't feel like classing myself as cis-male, as it would seem to imply that there is some secondary characteristic that can either align with or against the biological traits. I don't feel this to be the case.
Feel against that all you like, there's evidence that gender identity resides in the brain, and that the gender identity of the brain can be misalligned with the body's sex.
So, would I be right in saying that it is the brain (or part of it) developing with a bias towards one sex? Sounds an awful lot like biological sex to me. Why separate out the gender identity bit as if it is some special, non-biological element? To me, saying the gender identity of the brain can be misaligned with the body's sex, is exactly the same as saying: a part of the body's sex can be misaligned with the rest of the body's sex, which makes much more sense to me.

MarsAtlas said:
I am a consciousness in a male body. Is my consciousness supposed to be gendered in some way?
Your consciousness is, in part, a manifestation of physical characteristics of your brain. Things that physically alter your brain affect your mind, period. One's mind isn't separated from physical influence, and people started abandoning that concept back in the 1800s.
Of course the state of my brain affects my mind. But again, the physical state of my brain would surely be the root of the issue and still firmly biological. The resultant conscious thoughts, merely a symptom of sorts, not dependant on some vague and floaty gender sense that is somehow independent of the body.

Bleh.
 

-Dragmire-

King over my mind
Mar 29, 2011
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Cis? What the hell is... Uh, not sure, skip.

Trans. nope: does not apply.

Aaaaand... Other... did I miss something? What the hell kind of choices are those!?

I gotta be missing something here. Quick, self! To the New Tab!

[small]...googling...[/small]

[small]...wiki link...[/small]

[small]...reading...[/small]


Oh! Ok, I get it now.

Cis male then, I guess. Still sounds weird to me. Sis male, kiss male? Regardless of which way is the proper way to pronounce that word correctly, I'm finding it to be a rather awkward word to say out loud. Or is it supposed to be "chis" where the c takes the sound of ch like ciao?

To answer the Poll, I[small],male,[/b] feel appropriate in my upbringing and how it lines up with my sense of self and my sexuality so the.
 

Silvanus

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Nimcha said:
I've explained in an earlier post. It creates extra division where there sometimes is, for all intents and purposes, none.
It may be relevant in a medical scenario. Or, it may be relevant if statistical research is being carried out. Nobody's asking that people describe themselves in certain ways in the real world-- that's up to you.

Hixy said:
Worth it...... Fucks given = zero
Careful, Cloud, you could cut yourself on all that edge.
 

Evil Moo

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Feb 26, 2011
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MarsAtlas said:
[insert post here]
So once again it boils down to semantics. I've never liked the whole gender isn't sex thing. I swear every dictionary I look at says otherwise. Not to mention every use of the word I've heard up until the last year or so, and even then only on the internet and mostly on this forum, is the difference maintained. But this is an argument I've had too many times, so I'll leave it at that.
 

Silvanus

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Evil Moo said:
I swear every dictionary I look at says otherwise. Not to mention every use of the word I've heard up until the last year or so, and even then only on the internet and mostly on this forum, is the difference maintained.
Well, the difference is also maintained by the World Health Organisation [http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/] and the A.P.A. [http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/sexuality-definitions.pdf]. Remember that dictionaries are primarily guidebooks on general usage; they are not ultimate authorities.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Jasper van Heycop said:
Well actually the men are not caring thing is innate (not saying that man can't be good caregivers, there are many cases where men are very talented at it actually, just that it doesn't come as natural to them). I've seen a study where a random group of men and a random group of women were said to wait in two rooms, with a twist; the rooms were filled with babies in beds. Being babies, naturally, they started crying in both cases and while the men just stood there awkwardly waiting to be relieved from this nightmare the women started picking up the babies and comforting them. A mother will also be woken up by their child crying while the dad just stays asleep.
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whose to say that was fully inate? if you don't have mcuh expereince with babies (guys don't get encouraged to fwan over and hold others babies) then you sure as hell don't want anything to do with them....I probably wouldn't have done that...

also I used to be weirded out by babies and not know what to do with them, that is untill my sister had one and I spent a lot of time around her...I wouldn't hold her unless I absolutly have too but I don't feel like I'm going to break her just by looking at her
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Hixy said:
A perfectly fine point except that all the arguments on here are so broad. It's just ''rabble rabble gender roles are bad''. How are they? When are they? Give me specific examples of when this is a barrier for someone. I am generally interested.
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becauce they place preassures and expectations on you based only on your gender

-guys can't be care givers
-guys cant show emotions beyond anger
-guys can't be feminine at all in their mannerisms
-guys have to be strong
-guys have to earn all the money
-guys have to have lots of and lots of sex

-women can't be strong
-women are dirven by their emotions
-women are bad at math/science
-women want babies
-so many babies
-BABIES!!!!
-women must be feminine
-women can't have too much sex otherwise theyre sluts
-women can't not want sex otherwise theyre fridgid

all of thease are bullshit, and if you don't fit into gender roles well...youre gonna have a hard time
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Jasper van Heycop said:
They don't? Seems pretty normal around where I live (though the fawning is mostly done by other parents). Fair enough, cultural differences I guess...
well they kinda do but it seems different with women...they go nuts over them like theyre free candy....to be fair though babies can be really cute