Poll: Gender Identity

[Something Amyss]

Also, trans males have a chance of going bald, that's some scary stuff >_>

Try being a transwoman with hair loss.

More seriously, it might be the family I was raised in, or the country, or the society, or whatever, but the reason I went on for so long without realizing was that I really didn't know about the "male" privilege as a thing before I started hearing about it outside the people I spoke with. I've had men who wash and cook and women who builds and drive trucks and pay the bills around me for too long, I suppose. Even so, I've acted as a guy for as long as I can remember, and even as a child I was happier when I was mistaken for a guy.

I grew up on the corner of redneck and hippie, so I can sort of see it happening both ways. Hell, sometimes I could sort of see it at the same time.

Basically, I agree with the "It's not a choice. It's just how it is," thing. Not to mention, identifying as anything that's not your physical sex kinda removes most privileges. :/

Yeah, I mean, I don't know firsthand, but I seriously doubt saying "No, actually, I'm a dude. Ignore the bits I was born with" would in any way make things easier. Or grant more privilege.

To be frank, I kind of wish it was a choice, because then I could totally choose to not feel this way.

 

[Evil Moo]

[Another post]

It absolutely is semantics, if I understand your posts correctly. It would seem we agree on pretty much everything except phraseology, which is largely irrelevant to the reality of the situation. If people feel disrespected by my own internal lexicon, that's very much their problem, more so as it is entirely irrelevant to them and will never affect them in any way. I'm not sure why you're suddenly lecturing me on respect and equal rights as if I'd just advocated segregating the trans individuals or something.

And if you must push the issue, a brief look around yields 3 main definitions for gender: sexual characteristics ranging from just biological to that and behavioural, physiological etc (which is what I'm happy with), societal/cultural roles (which seems somewhat irrelevant to the identity issue) and gender identity (which seems like a bad definition... What does the gender in gender identity mean? Another gender identity to make gender identity identity and so on? Or is it back to the physiology or the roles again?). It is just a pet peeve on terminology, not a 'mindset' on gender or transgender issues. It affects no one but myself.

People can identify as whatever they want. It means nothing to me. I will treat them with the same suspicion and paranoia as everyone else regardless.

 

[Vault101]

In my opinion the idea of a male being trapped in a female body (or the reverse) is ridiculous, it goes against the natural order which created you as you are,

natural order?...what the hell is that?

its nothing...thats what it is...nothing alongside "superfoods"

[quote/]and even religion where you are defying a deities will for you to be born as you are.[/quote]
preeeeeeety sure religion ain't an issue...in fact does the bible say anything about trans people? that would be interest...also interesting is that in some native American tribes a trans person was considered "of two spirits/worlds"

[quote/]I think the ability to accept yourself for who and what you are is far more impressive than surgery, that will cause you to become something which is neither male nor female. Unless you are already rather androgynous 99 times out of 100 the surgery will make you look like a cross dresser (in my opinion) and people will be able to spot you.[/quote]
not always, trans people can what they call "pass" and even then say...Laverne Cox (actress from OITNB) may be slightly taller and have a deeper voice, but she looks like a woman (and a beatuiful one at that) and the fact we all know she transitioned doesn't really matter

and you know some people just like to be androdgenous?

[quote/]I dont think being a woman in a mans body means you are a mistake. I think it means you are gay and should spend less on surgery and more time on finding a gay male to be with.[/quote]
[i/]it doesn't mean your fucking gay[/i]

who you want to have sex with and what your gender is are two different things

[quote/]
I am just an advocate of self acceptance.[/quote]
you can pre face it all you want....but your just misinformed

 

[Something Amyss]

While I am somewhat tempted to put this to the test ("For science!" and all that), something as drastic as HRT seems like it would be at least a little traumatic on the system regardless. I think experimenting on myself is a little beyond the line I'm willing to cross to satisfy my curiosity. Hmmm... I wonder if hormone removal therapy is a thing... Would probably break some vital system I'm sure...

Well, I mean, they make drugs that block testosterone, which transwomen take to offset the natural production. This is only necessary as long as the testicles remain, but it is worth pointing out that not all transwomen feel the need for/can afford SRS or even castration. That's mostly a tangent, though.

I mean, it blocks testosterone production. I'm not sure about estrogen. To my understanding, it's largely unnecessary in transmen because testosterone has a way of shutting that whole thing down. I could be wrong, but no transmen I've ever known has mentioned a blocker.

Still, the "dramatic" nature is one of the reasons I wouldn't recommend it. As with any drug, there are always side effects.

My ignorance in biology limits my knowledge of what other factors there are. Really, there, I would be referring to subtle interactions between internal systems like hormones and say, genetics/epigenetics for example. Factors that we might not have even discovered yet as well. But yeah, that's mostly speculation for the sake of my own rationalisation.

Well, there's no evidence genetics plays into this. I can't say it doesn't, only that there's no proven link. Undiscovered factors, perhaps, but we seem to have accounted for much of it in the hormonal cycle of the womb impacting brain and body development. Men and women have brains that are developed differently (different, not inferior/superior). Men and women also show different activity levels when using their brains for various tasks, too. In the limited amount of study done, transmen are more like men and transwomen are more like women in similar tests.

Now, the brain is still a mystery and so is identity as a whole, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect a brain that acts like a woman's to have some expectation, yes. This is still somewhat contested, but that seems to be more on the grounds that some people find it insulting. In any case, it's hard to pin down the exact nature of identity. Especially when you consider split brain experiments and the various personalities that can come from what is ostensibly the same mind.

It's all a bunch of wibby-wobbly, brainy-wainy stuff.

....It got away from me, yeah.

I swear every dictionary I look at says otherwise.

Dictionaries don't make the rules. They're a lagging indicator of language use, which is why slang is often late to the party. It further usually doesn't offer full context of words. Dictionaries are a good stepping off point, but hardly the end-all.

I do not feel the need to divide further since I don't think there is much of a difference between me and, for example, my aforementioned friend.

Sounds like your definition is arbitrary, then.

Or can my friend now identify as cis as well, since her biological sex (visible parts anyway) and gender identity now do line up as desired?

Is she able to? Yes. Is it accurate? No.

As for the gay label, that part's not gonna change. There is actually a big difference between me and a heterosexual female. Hence the label.

And there is actually a "big" difference between someone born cisgendered and someone born not. Hence the label.

See, the same argument applies.

That's the peril of statistics. Since most people who identify as "other" or trans are more likely to vote on such a poll as these questions are more on their mind. I think the actual % out of all people is smaller than that or it's a very trans, "other" heavy forum.

I voted cis male, I'm boring.

It's the peril of self-reporting. However, there does seem to be a higher rate of transfolk in nerd communities. Or openly transfolk in nerd communities. There being another important difference. It's hard to get accurate and real statistics on groups like gays and transgendered individuals because the current climate is still a tough one.

 

[Something Amyss]

[i/]it doesn't mean your fucking gay[/i]

who you want to have sex with and what your gender is are two different things

Hell, a LOT of transwomen are lesbians and transmen are gay. This has always seemed like the worst rationalisation ever.

 

[Vault101]

Hell, a LOT of transwomen are lesbians and transmen are gay. This has always seemed like the worst rationalisation ever.

its just another example of people not understanding trans people....hell untill recently there was a lot I didn't know...

 

[Vault101]

I would hope that those that define themselves as trans have done similar homework before assigning themselves said definitions. There are many who are genuinely born with a brain that has been developed along the lines of one gender while the body developed into the other gender. I would hate to see the plight of those people marginalized by those who simply made a conscious choice to attempt to be the opposite of their biological gender out of some misguided idea that gender is a choice/social construct. The brains chemistry and structure should be the ultimate arbiters on this.
.

if its what they truly want and are willing to do (depending on if were talking hormones/surgeery I'm not an expert on that) then whats the issue? its not exactly easy, to do such a thing you not only risk losing your familiy and freinds but you practially put your own safty at risk...

or if I want to be androgenous and call myself neither why can't I? (well ok that would be a pain in most social situations)

it reminds me of this idea of saying being Gay isn't a choice....its an important distinction to make yes, but it gets to a point where you think "if it were a choice would it be the wrong one? must we keep spinning this "woe is me I cannot help being gay" narrative to apease potential bigots? who has the problem here? gay people or society?

 

[Vault101]

Also, trans males have a chance of going bald, that's some scary stuff >_>

I've wondered about this...is it because the Hormones/testosterone make you more suseptible to male pattern baldness/premature baldness? I know that some women can get really thin on top...

 

[Something Amyss]

its just another example of people not understanding trans people....hell untill recently there was a lot I didn't know...

Well, you're trying at least. A for effort.

it reminds me of this idea of saying being Gay isn't a choice....its an important distinction to make yes, but it gets to a point where you think "if it were a choice would it be the wrong one? must we keep spinning this "woe is me I cannot help being gay" narrative to apease potential bigots? who has the problem here? gay people or society?

This is one of those things that tears me. On the one hand, it's really untrue that gays (as a whole) choose to be gay and plenty to suggest that sexuality is (normally) inborn. On the other hand, I think that misses one of the big things here: people tend to argue that sexuality is a choice because of the subtext that if sexuality is a choice, they can discriminate based upon it. And I think that's kind of horrible. I think most people who decided to be gay would probably not enjoy it much, but if that's what they want, why the hell do we care?

And would picking on a born homosexual be worse than picking on someone who chose to be gay?

And, I mean, yeah, it's still not correct to say homosexuality is a "lifestyle choice," but....I think we're missing the big picture.

 

[Callate]

This has "been around" before, but presents some research that suggests that gender differentiation may well exist from birth:
As far as how I actually identify, it would be "male". I am perfectly fine with people identifying me as cis-male in discussions about gender, but in terms of how I self-identify, the existence of transgender or intersex individuals doesn't factor in; there's no particular reason it should.

 

[smithy_2045]

I identify as a person that deliberately skews the results of polls on the internet.

But more seriously, it's something I give no thought to because ultimately there's no need to label what I am. It just creates needless division.

 

[Vault101]

This has "been around" before, but presents some research that suggests that gender differentiation may well exist from birth: .

I don't like the title of that documentry..to imply things aren't "eaqual" is to imply one is better than the other,rather than just different. I don't care if we do have inate things based on gender, when its used to enforce harmful sterotypes then thats what I have issue with

 

[Callate]

I don't like the title of that documentry..to imply things aren't "eaqual" is to imply one is better than the other,rather than just different. I don't care if we do have inate things based on gender, when its used to enforce harmful sterotypes then thats what I have issue with

Agreed, though I think we should also be careful in trying not to suggest that one gender is better than the other to not impose that there's anything wrong with males doing "typically" masculine things or females doing "typically" feminine things, at least so long as those things aren't inherently harmful. Sometimes the willingness I hear of parents to crow on social media about their boys wearing pink or their girls playing with trucks causes me to worry that we're just preparing to screw up the next generation in a slightly different way.

My daughter loves the Lord of the Rings, and swords, and computers, and is turning out to be quite good at math, and I think that's all great. But she also loves purple, and make-up, and aspires to be a mother, and that's all great, too.

 

[FPLOON]

*reads poll*
So... I'm a cis male, then? That would explain what I should be identifying as these days... Although, I still personally find the act of crossdressing to be very awesome to me!

Not sure if that last part matters in the grand scheme of things, but I digress... (I hide no secrets!)

 

[-Dragmire-]

Cis male then, I guess. Still sounds weird to me. Sis male, kiss male? Regardless of which way is the proper way to pronounce that word correctly, I'm finding it to be a rather awkward word to say out loud. Or is it supposed to be "chis" where the c takes the sound of ch like ciao?

You say it with a "z" sound at the end, rather than an "s" sound. Think of it as rhyming with the first "s" in "business".

Ah, that certainly does sound better than my initial guesses.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

"cisgendered" what the fuck does that mean? *looks it up* Oh. I'm never EVER going to use that term. I am male, I was born male, and I identify as male.

Whats so wrong with the word? Its a simple descriptor, like "blonde", "blue-eyed", "latino", or "heterosexual"

Because it sounds stupid. Also, despite having looked it up, I'm still not clear on what the "cis" part is supposed to mean. Not that I read the article that extensively.

 

[Eamar]

Well actually the men are not caring thing is innate (not saying that man can't be good caregivers, there are many cases where men are very talented at it actually, just that it doesn't come as natural to them). I've seen a study where a random group of men and a random group of women were said to wait in two rooms, with a twist; the rooms were filled with babies in beds. Being babies, naturally, they started crying in both cases and while the men just stood there awkwardly waiting to be relieved from this nightmare the women started picking up the babies and comforting them. A mother will also be woken up by their child crying while the dad just stays asleep.

I agree the women are bad at engineering thing is bull though. Because that isn't an inherent biological thing like the caring thing is, that is purely a societal thing (as there are countries where women outnumber men in engineering fields).

That doesn't prove anything about innateness though. You could just as easily argue that their reaction was due to social conditioning, or even just having less experience handling babies than the average woman (again, due to social norms etc). Not saying I can prove that, I certainly can't based on that study alone, but that goes both ways.

 

[Eamar]

Because it sounds stupid.

So? Lots of words sound stupid if you stop and think about it. Banana. Bamboozle. Wobble. Diphthong. I could go on, this is actually kinda fun.

Also, despite having looked it up, I'm still not clear on what the "cis" part is supposed to mean.

"Cis" is Latin, like "trans". It means "on the near side", whereas "trans" basically means "across"/"on the far side". For example, the Romans talked about Cisalpine Gaul, which was the bit of Gaul on the same side of the Alps as Rome, and Transalpine Gaul, which was the bit they had to cross the Alps to get to.

So basically, the word "cisgendered" is a perfectly logical counterpart to "transgendered". Of course, no one's asking anyone to describe themselves as cis (or indeed trans) in day to day life, but it's useful in scientific or statistical scenarios like this one.

EDIT: Fixed a quoting fuckup.

 

[Vault101]

Because it sounds stupid.

So? Lots of words sound stupid if you stop and think about it. Banana. Bamboozle. Wobble. Diphthong. I could go on, this is actually kinda fun.
.

Boondoggle! is a real word

as in a feel most of my job is just a Boondoggle..