Poll: Guns, are they good or bad?
- Thread starter chinese_democracy
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Bullshit. Some are from black market. A lot would be just from stealing from civilians homes or getting a friend to buy a gun and filing off the serial numbers.
Take a look at the school shootings. Did they use the black market? No. They got them from dear ol daddys closet. End of story.
And don't blame me for not being able to understand your poor choice of words. Besides, if they use knives then there is always the choice of using pepper spray or tasers. As I said to the person above. You have options. You just want to use guns for the sake of it.
Oh and end of discussion. Gun nuts fail to use common sense so I will not debate further with them.[/quote]
For a guy complaining that other are not using common sense you sure seem to be lacking it. Right now you are twisting logic for the sole purpose of trying to make you right. You have no proof where people are getting guns, and are rage quiting because you know you can't properly defend your argument with out relying on twisting information.
Bullshit. Some are from black market. A lot would be just from stealing from civilians homes or getting a friend to buy a gun and filing off the serial numbers.
Take a look at the school shootings. Did they use the black market? No. They got them from dear ol daddys closet. End of story.
And don't blame me for not being able to understand your poor choice of words. Besides, if they use knives then there is always the choice of using pepper spray or tasers. As I said to the person above. You have options. You just want to use guns for the sake of it.
Oh and end of discussion. Gun nuts fail to use common sense so I will not debate further with them.[/quote]
For a guy complaining that other are not using common sense you sure seem to be lacking it. Right now you are twisting logic for the sole purpose of trying to make you right. You have no proof where people are getting guns, and are rage quiting because you know you can't properly defend your argument with out relying on twisting information.
i say that they are good and i can back it up there was a city in japan that banned guns entirely and the crime rate stayed the same as did the homicide rate because nobody had a gun they just used knives instead and there is a city in Texas where you have to have a gun in your possession at all times and the crime reate is nearly nothing
so here the question would you rob a bank if you knew nobody had a gun or would you rob it if you knew every single person had a gun where if you point yours at the teller 30 people would point a gun at your back
so here the question would you rob a bank if you knew nobody had a gun or would you rob it if you knew every single person had a gun where if you point yours at the teller 30 people would point a gun at your back
Bullshit. Some are from black market. A lot would be just from stealing from civilians homes or getting a friend to buy a gun and filing off the serial numbers.
Take a look at the school shootings. Did they use the black market? No. They got them from dear ol daddys closet. End of story.
And don't blame me for not being able to understand your poor choice of words. Besides, if they use knives then there is always the choice of using pepper spray or tasers. As I said to the person above. You have options. You just want to use guns for the sake of it.
Oh and end of discussion. Gun nuts fail to use common sense so I will not debate further with them.[/quote]
For a guy complaining that other are not using common sense you sure seem to be lacking it. Right now you are twisting logic for the sole purpose of trying to make you right. You have no proof where people are getting guns, and are rage quiting because you know you can't properly defend your argument with out relying on twisting information.[/quote]
Looks like we have ourselves a winner here!
Take a look at the school shootings. Did they use the black market? No. They got them from dear ol daddys closet. End of story.
And don't blame me for not being able to understand your poor choice of words. Besides, if they use knives then there is always the choice of using pepper spray or tasers. As I said to the person above. You have options. You just want to use guns for the sake of it.
Oh and end of discussion. Gun nuts fail to use common sense so I will not debate further with them.[/quote]
For a guy complaining that other are not using common sense you sure seem to be lacking it. Right now you are twisting logic for the sole purpose of trying to make you right. You have no proof where people are getting guns, and are rage quiting because you know you can't properly defend your argument with out relying on twisting information.[/quote]
Looks like we have ourselves a winner here!
I've said this a million times already:
Guns aren't good or bad. That's like saying "Hammers are good/bad" or any other tool. Guns are inanimate objects. People are good or bad. It's like Frank Miller said:
"My feeling is that the hero has now been defined by phrases like the odious one that we were all raised with - crimes does not pay. Of course it pays, you schmuck. That's not why we don't do it. We don't do it because it is wrong."
Since most people are decent, it makes sense to have widespread gun ownership, to keep the non decent ones in check. When only the police/military have guns, you get a police state/massive jump in crime fairly quickly.
Lastly, guns (of any classification) aren't built to kill people/things. Guns are built to move a small pin a very short distance. You can't even say that bullets are meant to kill, as you can find everything from wax bullets, to rubber, to pyrotechnic bullets that exist to seemingly be a way more expensive alternative to fireworks.
Guns aren't good or bad. That's like saying "Hammers are good/bad" or any other tool. Guns are inanimate objects. People are good or bad. It's like Frank Miller said:
"My feeling is that the hero has now been defined by phrases like the odious one that we were all raised with - crimes does not pay. Of course it pays, you schmuck. That's not why we don't do it. We don't do it because it is wrong."
Since most people are decent, it makes sense to have widespread gun ownership, to keep the non decent ones in check. When only the police/military have guns, you get a police state/massive jump in crime fairly quickly.
Lastly, guns (of any classification) aren't built to kill people/things. Guns are built to move a small pin a very short distance. You can't even say that bullets are meant to kill, as you can find everything from wax bullets, to rubber, to pyrotechnic bullets that exist to seemingly be a way more expensive alternative to fireworks.
Yup, you got me. Boiling it down to a flame war now. I hate to make this some sort of schoolyard shenanigan, but you attacked me first. And now you have the nerve to call me an idiot. Your so called "points" have no backing whatsoever, just because you feel like guns shouldn't be allowed makes my opinion that guns should be allowed "dumb" or "bad"?Avykins said:
I don't want to claim my victory, especially on an internet forum, but you backed down so quickly that I couldn't help myself. Now just leave the topic if you have nothing else to say about the OP.
Two fuzz in britian were shot to death by a criminal with guns.Vuljatar said:
I say arm EVERYONE. Why? I bet you rape cases would go down if rapists had to ponder if Jannie's got a gun.
I bet muggings would go down when that thug around the corner is pondering how quick of a draw you are, and wether risking his life is worth 52 dollars and 8 cents.
I bet you school shootings victim total would go down. When that kid takes down his first victim Four teachers putting multiple bullets each in his hide would definetly do wonders in stopping him from taking a second.
Banning ANYTHING only harms the innocent, as criminals will always have a way to get ahold of it. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE FUCKING CRIMINALS!
And honestly, theres 3 big reasons I don't want guns banned. 2 of them are very out there, but the main one will pull it all back into perspective.
3. If the government decided to turn America into a militant dictatorship, I want my pistol and box of bullets in my hand.
2. I feel sorry for the poor SoB who tries a militant take over of any US town, ESPECIALLY heavily wooded ones with lots of hunters XD
1. If you take away my gun, I will just buy a crossbow or machete. Take away my crossbow or machete, and I will sharpen a stick or use a board soaked in oil. Take away my sharpened stick or board, and I will pick up a rock and bash your brains in, take away my rock, and I jab a pencil in your neck.... See where I am going with this? Look at the rate of knife crime in Britian compared to knife crimes in America.
"The new figures indicate that in the year 2007-8 there were some 277 deaths from stabbings in England & Wales alone (the highest recorded figure for 30 years). This represents an average death toll as a direct result of stabbings of over 5 for every week of the year! "
"However, there have also been recent rises. In the 12 months to July 2007 the Met saw a 3.5% rise in firearms offences in London - up from 3,485 to 3,607 incidents."
Hmm.. shouldn't that number be 0.. or in the low ones through tens.. seeing as guns are banned and all... hmmm... I wonder why...
Point is, people will kill people any way they can, and people can only bring these people to justice usually AFTER the person in question has done said murder. Taking away our right to bare arms is not only unconstitutional, it is also just tossing a damp cloth over a patch of mold. Yeah it makes the problem of the mold SEEM to go away, but in the end, the mold will quickly rear it's ugly head in the form of cloth mold rather then floor mold. I'd rather be armed and able to defend myself against a man with a gun, rather then have to learn to knife fight a man with a gun.
Damn, I forgot what the exact term for this was, but what you're doing is taking one facet of something about a state (its stance on gun-ownership) and then building your argument around that one facet. Crime is a complicated beast that people spend their whole lives studying. By assuming that, you leave out a huge portion of possibilities. It's like talking about the American Civil War, if you generalize and just say "slavery" you're leaving out a huge portion of other things that played a part in causing the war. However, that may not be quite a good example, because slavery WAS a huge part of the Civil War and the role of gun laws in state crime rates is not determined.Vuljatar said:
Oh, and I'll take the risk of sounding like a douche and not simply a spirited debater by saying that if you wish to respond to me, do so in a constructive manner (yours was quite constructive, I've just encountered too many people who aren't on this site not to take the precaution), otherwise, I won't bother with a response.
So this is my 2 cents. I think guns should be outlawed just to make our legal system a little more consistent. If the point of anti drug laws are in place to protect the citizens from a deadly substance because they don't know better to not use them, then they should have the same policy on guns.
The average redneck often argues "why should I give up my gun when I am a responsible and safe gun owner?" Well my selfish friend, because it will save tens of thousands of lives. You are getting defensive over a luxury. It's the only purpose guns have in America, recreation. Lets get real here. Unless you sit there with gun in hand waiting for shit to happen you are never going to have the opportunity to properly protect yourself in the event of a robbery or something (you aren't Dirty Harry dude, grow up) and cold blood murders almost always are committed by the people the victim knew. The real reason you want your gun is for recreational BS. So next time you come back home from the range or a hunting trip just ask yourself if that was worth 12,000 people.
"even if you make them illegal they will still be on the streets, they get their guns illegally from other countries." No, the guns are purchased legally in the states and then sold illegally. And if you control the number guns and ammo( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFcVwDw4YLE ) being sold legally (like not selling them at all) inevitably the costs of guns on the street will skyrocket, you can figure out the rest.
The average redneck often argues "why should I give up my gun when I am a responsible and safe gun owner?" Well my selfish friend, because it will save tens of thousands of lives. You are getting defensive over a luxury. It's the only purpose guns have in America, recreation. Lets get real here. Unless you sit there with gun in hand waiting for shit to happen you are never going to have the opportunity to properly protect yourself in the event of a robbery or something (you aren't Dirty Harry dude, grow up) and cold blood murders almost always are committed by the people the victim knew. The real reason you want your gun is for recreational BS. So next time you come back home from the range or a hunting trip just ask yourself if that was worth 12,000 people.
"even if you make them illegal they will still be on the streets, they get their guns illegally from other countries." No, the guns are purchased legally in the states and then sold illegally. And if you control the number guns and ammo( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFcVwDw4YLE ) being sold legally (like not selling them at all) inevitably the costs of guns on the street will skyrocket, you can figure out the rest.
I understand what you are trying to say and I agree whole-heartedly. It isn't about gun laws, its more about standards of living, employment, education, the whole nine yards really. This is why people turn to crime, without poverty...people really wouldn't have a need to run around trying to find a gun to rob someone, but that sadly, is not the world we live in.Dancingman said:
Unless of course...I completely misunderstood your post. If so, disregard this! =P
Living in the country with the strictest weapon laws of Europe, I'm actually surprised there are, according to the only source I found, about 125.000 illegal weapons.(few years old so let's adjust it up to 150.000) I assumed there would be more of them, especially with about 17 million people living here. 1 in every 114 people would own an illegal weapon and with all the registered guns there might be 1 for every 100 people, the first source I found for "guns per person america", which was about as old as the other source(2006 for first, 2007 for this one) stated there were 90 registered guns per 100 people.
Gun related crimes are rare here, and while only criminals use them, they're often used to deal with other criminals.
That said, guns aren't bad. I can understand owning something to protect your family with(I have a very dirty and sharp knife in my room) but would you really need anything more powerful than what grimspice [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.132766.2971149] showed?
Gun related crimes are rare here, and while only criminals use them, they're often used to deal with other criminals.
That said, guns aren't bad. I can understand owning something to protect your family with(I have a very dirty and sharp knife in my room) but would you really need anything more powerful than what grimspice [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.132766.2971149] showed?
Excuse me Malta is an island of only 400,000 people where as the US is a famous melting pot where over 300,000,000 people of varying ethnicities, religions and social standing must co-exist unlike Japan where the guy next door will almost certainly speak the same language and have a similar upbringing so conflict is rare. Also Japan has the highest suicide rate of any industrialized nation and the lowest birthrate so the fact that people are killing themselves off faster than people are being born to replace them is not a good thing. You should use as an example [http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm] of a nation with a huge and diverse population living in peace without guns like Great Britain [http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF05.htm] that last year only had 42 murders involving handguns or shotguns versus 11 using other weapons. Although the fact that they still occur regardless of them being effectively banned since 1997 shoots a tiny little hole in your opinion.Mordwyl said:
Now American society does not believe that pulling the triggers will solve every problem just most of them. Ask any Somali pirate holding an American hostage in a boat, in the ocean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUfj2DtolDU[/youtube]
I agree that my first post was an oversimplification--I was trying to condense my opinion into a quick, small post.Dancingman said:
I certainly don't think that gun laws are the only deciding factor in state-to-state crime rates, but I do believe that they are one of the primary ones. Country-to-country is a different matter, because there are far more differences between the United States and Japan, for example, than there are between Texas and Washington D.C.
EDIT:
That's the opposite of the way I believe the government should go about it.chinese_democracy said:
Drugs need to be legalized, too. Laws that are primarily protecting people from themselves are bullshit--if someone wants to fuck themselves up, let them go ahead.
I don't believe Americans should give up their guns. A ban would cause a whole variety of new problems for Americans to deal with. But a gun register or *at least* stricter laws on guns would be preferable than the current system of *right to bear arms, privilege to kill*.
Guns are awesome. They look cool, they are badass, and they make loud noises and kill things.
Unfortunately, at least half (I'm thinking more like nine tenths) of people are dumb.
Badass guns + Dumbass people = Sorry guys, It just doesn't work.
At least make it so you need a license to get them (of course then you get in the bother of having to set up good beauracracy (Is that an oxymoron? (Aargh triple brackets)))
I'm for banning them, but then I don't live in america, so I suppose it doesn't affect me.
Unfortunately, at least half (I'm thinking more like nine tenths) of people are dumb.
Badass guns + Dumbass people = Sorry guys, It just doesn't work.
At least make it so you need a license to get them (of course then you get in the bother of having to set up good beauracracy (Is that an oxymoron? (Aargh triple brackets)))
I'm for banning them, but then I don't live in america, so I suppose it doesn't affect me.