Poll: Has the success of Call of Duty done more harm than good?

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Assassin Xaero

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Yes, but I also blame the success of Halo, too. When I say that, I mean, what the fuck happened to the fun in games? Like Doom, Quake, Serious Sam, Duke Nukem? Now everything is serious and boring with the Halo and Call of Duty mechanics. Also, when I was young and playing games (like Delta Force 2), you died after only a few bullets because they tried to be REALISTIC. Now people complain that jumping up 5 feet and sprinting fast aren't realistic, but they also complain if you can't survive an entire clip to the face? Shooters have lost their fun and been dumbed down for the "oh, well, if someone sneaks up behind me I should have a fair chance to shoot him, it isn't fair if they see me first and I can't kill them" noobs. Because everyone knows in real life when you go to war, if the other guy sees you first he'll call your name, wait for you to see him, and then start shooting at you 'cause it's fair that way.

chewbacca1010 said:
Eventually, like we did with World War Fucking One shooters, we will move on to new ground.
Don't you mean World War II? I don't recall that many WWI shooters, but WWII has been done to death (and still going).

GiantRaven said:
gigastar said:
Its approaching a stage where every non-CoD FPS is trying to be CoD.
Deus Ex: Human Revolution?
Brink?
Rage?
Bulletstorm?
Duke Nukem Forever?
Serious Sam 3?
 

ryai458

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Its a good game which forces other companies to be different if they want to compete, because sooner or later people will figure out you can't copy it and except people to buy a knockoff, yes I'm looking at you Medal of Honor.
 

Chewster

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Assassin Xaero said:
chewbacca1010 said:
Eventually, like we did with World War Fucking One shooters, we will move on to new ground.
Don't you mean World War II? I don't recall that many WWI shooters, but WWII has been done to death (and still going).
Whoops! That is what I get for posting while drowsy.

How embarrassing for me.

And still going you say? For the love of Mighty Thor, why? There cannot possibly be any battles left to recreate that haven't already been done.

And to think, I remember loving the first Medal of Honor games.
 

Nmil-ek

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delta46 said:
no, not after i saw this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0sGLmRtBag
So meathead starts taking drugs takes the effects gets hospitalised, now he can spend his life sitting infront of a pc editing together clips of teabagging for his cod montages set to drowning pool or some shit.

Inspirational.
 

anon_gamer1001

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the FPSngenre is just going through its years where everything is "realistic" and since COD is the best example of this everything is following it. Just like every fighter wanted to be mortal kombat or street fighter every shooter wants to be COD. It will pass eventually.
 

Assassin Xaero

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chewbacca1010 said:
Assassin Xaero said:
chewbacca1010 said:
Eventually, like we did with World War Fucking One shooters, we will move on to new ground.
Don't you mean World War II? I don't recall that many WWI shooters, but WWII has been done to death (and still going).
Whoops! That is what I get for posting while drowsy.

How embarrassing for me.

And still going you say? For the love of Mighty Thor, why? There cannot possibly be any battles left to recreate that haven't already been done.

And to think, I remember loving the first Medal of Honor games.
They have dinos now [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109122-Dino-D-Day-Still-Looks-Like-the-Best-World-War-II-FPS-Ever]. Call of Duty 1 and 2 were pretty fun, too, but now... ick. I think it was the new Red Orchestra coming out that was based in WWII, but I think I heard you play as the Germans.
 

GiantRaven

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gigastar said:
I said 'approaching' not 'at'.

Sorry if i gave the wrong impression.
Ah, I appear to have misread your post then. My apologies.

I really need to get a handle on that whole....reading properly thing.
 

Brawndo

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No.

You can make that argument for any genre with a highly successful series; other games will invariably try to parrot its features. For example, many MMOs try to be World of Warcraft, but you don't hear people making threads like this about it. Simply put it's popular to bash Call of Duty here, so people do so.

I think Call of Duty has outlived its stay and the developers should retire the series, but that does not deny the huge impact the series has had on competitive online FPS gaming.
 

bushwhacker2k

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GiantRaven said:
Rnr1224 said:
i believe that it has. every company wants to create a game very similar to cod because of the money that it keeps bringing in.
Every company? Really? You might be getting a little carried away there...
He was probably exaggerating somewhat, but it isn't an exaggeration to say that there are certainly a lot more similar FPSs around these days than there were a few years ago.

I wish they'd just hurry up and make the perfect FPS, so we could just play it when we're in the mood and stop having the spotlight taken up by more shiny new FPSs : /

But of course, on that note, perfection doesn't make as much money as releasing something with mild improvements year-after-year, does it nae?

Brawndo said:
For example, many MMOs try to be World of Warcraft, but you don't hear people making threads like this about it.
Actually... yes, I have seen a nice few of those.

But I agree that it is overall a popular thing to hate on because of the massive clonage people see going around. IMO WoW actually had more and worse clones than MW, and I'm fairly certain another popular game will come out soon and many other people will say "Hey! That game was cool, but there's this one little feature I think I could do better, time to make my own!"
 

Vibhor

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Not really, They popularized the WW2 scenario and since I didn't give a damn about the games I think they are just alright.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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I suppose the question is predicated upon yet another question, which is "harm to whom. Video games, perhaps more than other presumably artistic endeavors, fall victim to the "copy what the last popular thing was but iterate slightly" mentality, a trend that only grows worse as the cost of development of top tier games increases. This trend results in long periods of games that can be identified as "clones" of some other game and some of the earliest examples of such a trend are what defined our conceptions of game genres as a whole.

Consider, for example, the term "doom clone". While no one would honestly accuse a modern FPS of being a clone of an 18 year old DOS game at this point, consider the fundamental working ideas of that ancient game. The player controls a relatively faceless, voiceless protagonist who explores a maze and destroys monsters from beyond time and space. Progress in the game is mediated by a pair of factors: resource management (ammunition and health) and puzzle solving (apply the appropriate key to open a path and navigate a maze). Combat in the game is thus a basic mechanic where some resource is expended in order to continue (health and/or ammunition). These core ideas governed the single player FPS for nearly a decade and we still see examples of this very idea on display. Examples of obvious clones are: Quake, Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold, Duke Nukem 3D, Shadow Warrior, Blood, Unreal and even the fabled Half-Life. Even Half-Life 2 is subject to this exact same design concept; replacing "key" and "door" with "mcguffin" and "any blocking obstacle" does not alter the fundamental design mechanic. They advancements made in this "genre" are remarkably easy to chart as they were largely technical (graphical and audio improvements along with improving AI governing NPCs), mechanical (the adaptation of the mouse as a necessary means of input and the inclusion of jumping) and, most surprisingly, the slow erosion of puzzle elements (the maze level concept has been entirely abandoned in favor of something that is, strictly speaking, linear).

If you want to look at the games that really set the conditions for what games are like today, the fault does not lie with Black Ops or any game made by Infinity Ward; instead, it lies with games more than a decade old: Counter-Strike and Halo. It was Counter-Strike that gave us the basis for the "realistic" multiplayer shooter, a mode defined by incredibly lethal combat using real world weapons revolving around a modified CTF or outright deathmatch mechanic. Halo more or less defined the modern single player FPS experience. They key factor mediating progress in a Halo game was now relegated solely to proficiency in combat and combat itself was no longer a game of trading a resource for progress as both ammunition and health are easily replenished through progress. While some might assert that other games used individual features of one game or the other long before, these games are notable in that they simply represent the moment at which such things became the norm.

If you look closely, there is an underlying notion to both games: realism. While certain mechanics (limited weapon selection for example) are simply the result of compromises made when moving from having hundreds of keys available to a few dozen, the unspoken goal of such things is to move games in the direction of a realistic portrayal of combat, even if "realistic" is used quite liberally and concessions are often made for the sake of fun. With realism comes dramatically increased lethality which enforces a particular style of slow and deliberate play. Considering we had already moved from maze to corridor and play style had been reduced to a fundamental constant that could easily be measured and judged by designers independently of player testing (aside from that necessitated by bug fixes and the occasional balance tweak) there was but one move left to make: we could go from monster closets to shooting galleries. Yet, in spite of these subtle changes, the fundamental notions underlying such games remain unchanged for a decade.

The first major shift came after years of stagnation resulting from one fundamental design being represented in the majority of games in the genre. A similar period has passed in this era and it would appear that there is a steady rise in people who simply want to try something different. The question here is where can the FPS go from here save backwards? Is there really a bold new world to be found in the genre or is Bulletstorm really the harbinger of games to come, games where realism is discarded in favor of ideas of old and new ideas are grafted into the genre by simply transplanting notions of other genres into the game? Were I to bet on it, I'd suggest that this is precisely where the industry is going to go.

We thus return to the opening point: has this game done more harm than good? On the surface it would appear that it certainly has but in making such a hasty judgement we perhaps give the series too much credit. The ideas and mechanics of this game are far more ancient than it's modern four year history would allow for. The genre was already mired in these fundamental gameplay constants; all Call of Duty did was be so overwhelmingly successful that it became the poster-child for them (in much the same way Doom is the poster-child for the Doom Clone even though Doom was, itself, a clone of Wolfenstein 3D). Granted, that level of success has been so overwhelming that the word clone becomes less an admission that games that share the title have, at their heart the same fundamental game mechanics and notions and more an admission that they are literally as close to the same game as was legally possible to create but that doesn't strike me as being a bad thing.

If nothing else it helps make more obvious the fact that some sort of change ought to be tried, and where early experiments in mixing the FPS with other genres were largely unsuccessful, perhaps now the time is right. Perhaps now that people are well and truly beginning to tire of the familiar they will be willing to try something new even if they have no way of knowing they'll like it when they're contemplating a purchase at the store. If anything, I'd say CoD has done a great service to the genre by simply setting the conditions necessary to make bold gambles possible. It might take a few more cycles of the CoD machine but, at some point, people will stop buying them. And its going to be rather sudden and shocking to anyone who isn't a gamer.

So, is it really bad from a consumer point of view? Nope. They are being given what they want at a rate that will ensure they will grow tired of it forcing a change. Is it bad for the industry? Certainly some people will suffer as a result of this but the industry as a whole will eventually be forced to change in response. And if the industry cannot do that then I would argue that the industry at large is in great need of an overhaul anyhow.
 

Slycne

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No, because I think it's incredibly short sighted to try and pin anything like this on a single factor. Everyone that answered Yes to that poll is missing the bigger picture and instead of analyzing it as a whole are content to moan and complain about how Call of Duty and Bobby Kotick are ruining the rest of the games industry.
 

Jaranja

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GiantRaven said:
Rnr1224 said:
i believe that it has. every company wants to create a game very similar to cod because of the money that it keeps bringing in.
Every company? Really? You might be getting a little carried away there...
Yes. I agree with this. I don't see Atlus making a modern realistic FPS.
 

Iwana Humpalot

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Bah, if people like it, let them play and enjoy it. As for "singleplayer games" that have added multiplayer in them, i don't mind the multiplayer as long as the singleplayer doesn't suffer from it.
 

Jezzascmezza

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It certainly has, mainly because it causes most of my shallow friends to believe there's no other alternative.
It's all they play- COD.
 

Brawndo

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Also, did you ever consider not all gamers WANT innovation? There's a reason Counterstrike 1.6 is still going strong. Lots of gamers get pleasure from dominating others online, and straying from the skills they've honed and features they are familiar with in a new IP is a good way to lose potential customers
 

Evil Tim

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Ok, since we're cross-posting from IGN anyway, I don't see any harm in reposting this here.

Evil Tim said:
EternalNothingness said:
Publishers over-rely on anything that's popular and copy-off its success, rather than simply innovate and create their own, more different games than others.
Wrong, they rely on what's easy, and the modern FPS is one of the easiest sets of mechanics to churn out thoughtlessly; regenerating health means that as long as levels are cluttered you don't really have to design the game at all and the player can still win through sheer attrition, you can further emphasise hiding behind broken shit by underpowering grenades to the point the player can just ignore them and making weapons unable to hit the broadside of a barn unless you're in ADS, the two-weapon system means you don't have to balance weapons in singleplayer since you can just withold ammo until the uber-gun has to be thrown away, the silent protagonist gives your writers a break since they don't have to involve the player in the plot in the slightest (and as a bonus they can constantly have NPCs nag you with objectives so you don't go exploring the empty levels). Compared to the delicate balancing of healthpack placement that was required before, the game practically writes itself.

The Sonic knockoffs (they were usually Sonic, not Mario) were usually frustrating because they forgot the central Sonic mechanic was that Sonic was for the most part invincible as long as he had at least one ring; games like Bubsy would kill you instantly (in Bubsy's specific case you could die just by running into something fast), so failed to give you the ability to run through levels quickly. The JRPG-knockoffs failed because they require needlessly intricate plots and stat systems that hack developers couldn't be bothered to write. Compared to these, the FPS is more common simply because the rules behind it are so airtight it's remarkably hard to make a genuinely awful game under them (though people still do).

In fact, to quote myself, here's my "how to make an FPS."

* The player's entire health bar should regenerate. This means you just have to make levels cluttered [with square crates, obviously, since for some reason they're accepted in place of actual scenery] and the player will be able to keep alive no matter what.

* Only allow the player two weapons. This means you don't have to bother to balance the weapons since you can just refuse to give ammo for them until they have to be thrown away. For bonus points, make the pistol fit into the same system so it ends up completely useless.

* Throw in at least two of the following: an on-rails shooting section, a sniping section, a section controlling a mounted weapon, a vehicle section with a vehicle that doesn't have regenerating health, a stealth section, an escort mission, a defend area mission, a timed section.

* Use checkpoint saving. Nevermind that modern consoles can manage quicksaving, you know better than the player when it comes to that and being forced to replay sections over and over is a good way to make the game difficult. Nevermind the implication that forcing the player to play your game more constitutes a punishment. For bonus points, put checkpoints immediately before long unskippable cutscenes.

* The enemy force should consist largely or entirely of humanoids using weapons the player uses. They should have some kind of dropships and some kind of helicopter, which will act as a boss in one of the few sections where the game bothers to give you a rocket launcher. The remainder of the vehicle list should be: a buggy from your side, a buggy from their side, a tank from your side, a tank from their side, and a turret.

* If you're feeling adventurous, throw in mutants with ridiculously strong melee attacks. This is an especially good idea in games that feature a weak shotgun or don't have a weapon equivalent to one.

* Assign a motion sensor gimmick. Make it as pointless and annoying as you possibly can.

* If you have a melee attack in the game, have it so strong the player starts wondering why the gun can shoot bullets at all.

* Have a key assigned to throwing grenades, but make the grenades themselves extremely underpowered. If enemies can throw grenades, let them do so with ludicrous precision. Add in a grenade indicator so the player is never actually in any danger from them.

* Make sure the first section of the game is a needlessly condescending and unskippable tutorial because never before has a game asked the player to move around or switch weapons.

* Throw in several bad actors and assign a role to Steven Jay Blum.

You now have another FPS! Well done!
The "modern" shooter exists for the same reason WW2 is popular: the three Ws. A shooter's plot primarily needs to tell you Who you are, What you're doing and Why you're doing it; with modern and WW2 shooters, people already know, and if they don't you can say it's them being uneducated rather than you failing to tell a story coherently. In addition, the uniforms, weapons, vehicles and locations are just a conveniant google image search away rather than requiring actual design work. While idiots like Yahtzee harp on about how it's America!!1 (and their imperialism!1111)*, the truth is it's just the lazy, easy way to do things.

[small]*If you honestly believe the purpose of such games is the ebil US governments trying to persuade people to become soldiers by making it look cool, then I would have to ask if you also think there's a US government conspiracy to make people want to become 18th century pirates, given that's also portrayed as a kickass thing to do in almost everything.[/small]
 

philzibit

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Evolution will soon take its course. Soon, we'll all be saying "Remember all those Call Of Duty games, those were so much better."

GTA brought forth the many "GTA-Clones", but we survived to see the formula shaken up from "ghetto kids doing drive by's" and "let's recreate Goodfellas" to actually doing some unique stuff.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Oh please. Before Call of Duty people were bitching about how Halo was killing the genre.

Yes the shooters are getting bland. Hopefully there's be a smart publisher developer who realizes that if they want to beat Call of Duty, they'll have to do something completely different from Call of Duty. I'm looking at you when I say this, EA.

Thats how Call of Duty took the "most profitable shooter" title from Halo after all. It did something different. A shooter will have to be different from Call of Duty if it wants to "beat" it.