I love the health bar/regen combo in MGS3, but I'll always have a soft spot for the little health bar from number 1, always adding another segment after each boss fight. [/nostalgia]
Poll: Health Bar or Regenerating Health, what is your stance on this new trend?
- Thread starter ElArabDeMagnifico
- Start date
Recommended Videos
I can't decide whether I like The Chronicles of Riddick's or Black's health system more. Black's was good because you had a health bar, but you had a very small amount of regenerating health when you were next to death. Riddick's regenerating health bar was split into segments, which wouldn't heal if emptied, and you could only heal fully at med stations. It worked pretty well.
I voted for "something different", simply because I like health systems like Deus Ex's, Dark Corners of the Earth or similar things. Wounds, broken limbs and things like that can be great, if it matches the game's style. As aussiesniper said, there is no single best health system for every game type, although I still think regenerating health back to 100% is just a stupid idea.
I think I like the Deus Ex idea more, especially if you combine it with the bleeding from s.t.a.l.k.e.r.. I aloso think they should make players a lot more vulnerable. I couldn't stop thinking at one point how would "soap" McTavish pass a metal detector at an airport after his first week in the SAS.The guy must have been looking like swiss cheese full of lead afer the whole thing 
I think wolveine healing factor should only be included in a game if it makes sense i.e. game is set in future, character has nanobots in his blood/a shield generator up his arse/wearing powered armour etc.
Even when it is included I think it should still be combined with a health bar system in some way i.e. halo:CE, you had your regenerative shields and a health bar, it made sense and it worked pretty well.
The only time I am against regenerative health is when there is no explanation for it such as in CoD4 or when in discussions such as this people tout regen as "more realistic". Neither option is realistic.
Even when it is included I think it should still be combined with a health bar system in some way i.e. halo:CE, you had your regenerative shields and a health bar, it made sense and it worked pretty well.
The only time I am against regenerative health is when there is no explanation for it such as in CoD4 or when in discussions such as this people tout regen as "more realistic". Neither option is realistic.
"health" is an abstraction anyway. Tailor the health system to the game, I say.
Personally, I reckon that regenerating health removes some of the challenge from the game task of surviving, and should only be saved for when the bad guys all have a pretty decent chance of killing you one-on-one in a fair fight.
Basically, you should either be fragile in the short-term but capable of regenerating to full health fairly quickly, or tough in the short-term but reliant on external influences to restore your health.
One thing I'd quite like to experiment with would be a hybrid "tiered" system of damage.
Let's say you have your health bar which is green. You can take three types of damage:
Stun damage, which is represented by a section of your health bar turning blue.
Wound damage, which is represented by a section of your health bar turning red.
Life damage, which shortens your life bar.
Each type of damage counts from the far left of the hitpoint zone taken up by the next more serious type. So, if you've taken two Life damage, three wound damage and seven stun damage, then from right to left you have a small black zone, a slightly larger red zone, and a much larger blue zone, then it's green all the rest of the way.
Different weapons have different damage profiles. A tazer does huge amounts of stun but barely any wound and no life damage, for example, whereas a burn from a jet of steam is more wound than stun or life, and a sword does lots of life and wound, but not a lot of stun.
Stun damage regenerates quickly, Wound damage regenerates slowly, Life damage can only be restored by medkits, or spells, or whatever.
when your stun damage bottoms out you suffer minor penalties - your vision's a little blurry, your aim wavers. When your wound damage bottoms out you suffer major penalties - can't hear, can barely see, terrible aim. When your life damage bottoms out, you die.
Oh, and you make the bar VISIBLE.
you could even apply the system per body part, Deus Ex style.
Personally, I reckon that regenerating health removes some of the challenge from the game task of surviving, and should only be saved for when the bad guys all have a pretty decent chance of killing you one-on-one in a fair fight.
Basically, you should either be fragile in the short-term but capable of regenerating to full health fairly quickly, or tough in the short-term but reliant on external influences to restore your health.
One thing I'd quite like to experiment with would be a hybrid "tiered" system of damage.
Let's say you have your health bar which is green. You can take three types of damage:
Stun damage, which is represented by a section of your health bar turning blue.
Wound damage, which is represented by a section of your health bar turning red.
Life damage, which shortens your life bar.
Each type of damage counts from the far left of the hitpoint zone taken up by the next more serious type. So, if you've taken two Life damage, three wound damage and seven stun damage, then from right to left you have a small black zone, a slightly larger red zone, and a much larger blue zone, then it's green all the rest of the way.
Different weapons have different damage profiles. A tazer does huge amounts of stun but barely any wound and no life damage, for example, whereas a burn from a jet of steam is more wound than stun or life, and a sword does lots of life and wound, but not a lot of stun.
Stun damage regenerates quickly, Wound damage regenerates slowly, Life damage can only be restored by medkits, or spells, or whatever.
when your stun damage bottoms out you suffer minor penalties - your vision's a little blurry, your aim wavers. When your wound damage bottoms out you suffer major penalties - can't hear, can barely see, terrible aim. When your life damage bottoms out, you die.
Oh, and you make the bar VISIBLE.
you could even apply the system per body part, Deus Ex style.
thisnameok said:
exactly what i was going to say There's an element of the ability to take cover and compose yourself, but if you've taken a hell of a beating you can't just hide and get your health back up to the full level. It's a good system.
The regeneration of health is more for gameplay then for realism. It makes the combat fast, more exciting I suppose you could say. I must admit that I hate having to reload a checkpoint because I get clipped by a lucky Frag or something or other.
I havn't played Condemned 2, how does the health system work?
I havn't played Condemned 2, how does the health system work?
As anyone who's ever heard me talk on this subject, ever, knows...
I hate the annoying regenerating health (AKA "That stupid fucking wolverine healing factor every jackass space marine in the last three years has had"). Mainly because it slows down gameplay considerably. Very ironic considering it was invented to SPEED UP gameplay.
Then again, I never was enough of a loser at FPS games to have to backtrack halfway around the level to get another 20 hit points, which apparently some people do.
However, no matter how good you are when it comes to the Wolverine Healing Factor(tm), you'll still have to sit tight like a good boy for half a fucking minute until someone comes along and removes the red paint some jackass threw all over your character's eyes. This happens EVERY TIME YOU ARE SHOT. It is very much beyond my understanding how this ever was supposed to speed up gameplay.
Aside that, the Wolverine Healing Factor makes your character a fucking pussy. When I play FPS games, I wanna be a cool person who runs around and blows heads off of enemies and shrugs at third degree radioactive burns. Sadly, Master Chief is a FUCKING. LOSER. Put him before enemy fire for about a third of a second, and he's dead as shit. Same goes for EVERYONE when confronted with the vile, useless, annoying system known as Wolverine Healing Factor.
In conclusion, an open letter to FPS and Action-adventure game developers...
What the FUCK is so bad about knowing how many hit points you have that you felt that the best way to indicate injury is to make it look like someone took a BLEEDY DIARRHEA DUMP all over your FUCKING SCREEN?!
What the FUCK made you think that sitting still for HALF A FUCKING MIUNUTE every FUCKING TIME YOU GET FUCKING HIT would SPEED THE FUCKING GAME UP?!
That is all. Thank you.
Post Scriptum: If I were able to cast a secondary vote, I'd put it under Deus Ex. That game had a great system to show injury.
I hate the annoying regenerating health (AKA "That stupid fucking wolverine healing factor every jackass space marine in the last three years has had"). Mainly because it slows down gameplay considerably. Very ironic considering it was invented to SPEED UP gameplay.
Then again, I never was enough of a loser at FPS games to have to backtrack halfway around the level to get another 20 hit points, which apparently some people do.
However, no matter how good you are when it comes to the Wolverine Healing Factor(tm), you'll still have to sit tight like a good boy for half a fucking minute until someone comes along and removes the red paint some jackass threw all over your character's eyes. This happens EVERY TIME YOU ARE SHOT. It is very much beyond my understanding how this ever was supposed to speed up gameplay.
Aside that, the Wolverine Healing Factor makes your character a fucking pussy. When I play FPS games, I wanna be a cool person who runs around and blows heads off of enemies and shrugs at third degree radioactive burns. Sadly, Master Chief is a FUCKING. LOSER. Put him before enemy fire for about a third of a second, and he's dead as shit. Same goes for EVERYONE when confronted with the vile, useless, annoying system known as Wolverine Healing Factor.
In conclusion, an open letter to FPS and Action-adventure game developers...
What the FUCK is so bad about knowing how many hit points you have that you felt that the best way to indicate injury is to make it look like someone took a BLEEDY DIARRHEA DUMP all over your FUCKING SCREEN?!
What the FUCK made you think that sitting still for HALF A FUCKING MIUNUTE every FUCKING TIME YOU GET FUCKING HIT would SPEED THE FUCKING GAME UP?!
That is all. Thank you.
Post Scriptum: If I were able to cast a secondary vote, I'd put it under Deus Ex. That game had a great system to show injury.
Voting was a struggle, because I tend to automatically support anything associated with Deus Ex
Honestly though, regen tends to make games more fun. Most of the arguments in this poll in favour of health bars are along the lines of being more realistic, making the game more challenging and making damage more significant. Well, sure, but those are the kinds of qualities "hardcore" gamers value - they might be satisfying, but they're not fun. In the majority of games (I'd say even near-serious games like CoD4) regen is more fun because it raises the tempo of the action. In one sense it lets the designers make bullet damage more realistic, because in games with regen the player is usually quite fragile: it only takes a few seconds of sustained fire from any weapon to kill Master Chief. Gordon Freeman, eg, can shrug off a lot more damage than that; he just has to live with it for longer. And as someone pointed out, it means you can suck up a certain amount of the petty small-arms fire damage that comes with a big firefight without having to spend dull minutes searching for a health station afterward.
And it gives you a greater sense of freedom: even in an open, continuous game like the Half Life series, you always have a sense that you're trying to make it to the next health station, like a checkpoint or a level marker. The few times that there were side-paths to explore in HL2, I didn't feel really comfortable taking them, because every firefight meant a little less health for me. In Halo, you're confident in attempting anything because you know no matter what hits you you can either run and hide or respawn.
Of course regen is not The Answer for all games, some benefit from a health meter. Resident Evil would be silly with regenerating health.
Why isn't there a game (that I can think of) in which health regenerates slowly? It must have been tested in game development studios; maybe it tends to make people spend too much time just hiding. Still, I like the idea as a compromise between a health bar and regeneration.
EDIT: TF2 absolutely could not have regenerating health.
Honestly though, regen tends to make games more fun. Most of the arguments in this poll in favour of health bars are along the lines of being more realistic, making the game more challenging and making damage more significant. Well, sure, but those are the kinds of qualities "hardcore" gamers value - they might be satisfying, but they're not fun. In the majority of games (I'd say even near-serious games like CoD4) regen is more fun because it raises the tempo of the action. In one sense it lets the designers make bullet damage more realistic, because in games with regen the player is usually quite fragile: it only takes a few seconds of sustained fire from any weapon to kill Master Chief. Gordon Freeman, eg, can shrug off a lot more damage than that; he just has to live with it for longer. And as someone pointed out, it means you can suck up a certain amount of the petty small-arms fire damage that comes with a big firefight without having to spend dull minutes searching for a health station afterward.
And it gives you a greater sense of freedom: even in an open, continuous game like the Half Life series, you always have a sense that you're trying to make it to the next health station, like a checkpoint or a level marker. The few times that there were side-paths to explore in HL2, I didn't feel really comfortable taking them, because every firefight meant a little less health for me. In Halo, you're confident in attempting anything because you know no matter what hits you you can either run and hide or respawn.
Of course regen is not The Answer for all games, some benefit from a health meter. Resident Evil would be silly with regenerating health.
Why isn't there a game (that I can think of) in which health regenerates slowly? It must have been tested in game development studios; maybe it tends to make people spend too much time just hiding. Still, I like the idea as a compromise between a health bar and regeneration.
EDIT: TF2 absolutely could not have regenerating health.
It does. A few RPGs I've played in the past had this. All it meant was that if I didn't have any healing potions, I just went and watched TV for five minutes.Fraser.J.A said:
One idea that works is to have health regenerate only when there are no more bad guys around. So you have to clear the area before you heal up. I *think* Mass Effect did this (coupled with a healing ability). This probably wouldn't work in a lot of fast-paced games.
I prefer health bars and healing stations/ med-pack things. I think that if this was combined with location damage then it would be even better.
The only beef I have with regenerating health is that it's pretty un-realistic in certain games. Take CoD4 for example, if you're hit by a grenade blast but it doesn't kill you, you can just hide behind a fence and you'll be fine in a few seconds. But wait, these are fragmentation grenades, they're designed to maim, if not kill, people. So why is my character now at full health despite getting a face full of shrapnel.
Halo's system was good though, regenerating shield with med-packs for your health, excellent stuff. Halo 2 and 3 ruined it by giving you a shield and almost no health which actually made you easier to kill, especially in Halo 3 where about half a mag of AR ammo can kill another player.
Anyway, I'm all for health bars with location damage, it actually encourages players to avoid fire, rather than taking loads of damage, hiding a bit, then running out with full health again.
P.M.
The only beef I have with regenerating health is that it's pretty un-realistic in certain games. Take CoD4 for example, if you're hit by a grenade blast but it doesn't kill you, you can just hide behind a fence and you'll be fine in a few seconds. But wait, these are fragmentation grenades, they're designed to maim, if not kill, people. So why is my character now at full health despite getting a face full of shrapnel.
Halo's system was good though, regenerating shield with med-packs for your health, excellent stuff. Halo 2 and 3 ruined it by giving you a shield and almost no health which actually made you easier to kill, especially in Halo 3 where about half a mag of AR ammo can kill another player.
Anyway, I'm all for health bars with location damage, it actually encourages players to avoid fire, rather than taking loads of damage, hiding a bit, then running out with full health again.
P.M.
Depends on the game. For Gears of War, regeneration worked fine with the emphasis on cover. You don't die because the enemy got so many bullets into you over time, you die because you got caught without cover. Other games work better with the health bar. Half-Life, for instance, had many things that would only kill you with sufficient exposure - fire, toxic waste, staying underwater too long. These only work properly with the health bar. Otherwise, the time spent exposed is irrelevant.
Usually I prefer the health bar style, regen is probably more convenient but it removes some of the challenge. Sometimes being low on hit points actually help as it can make you a little desperate and thus perform better in FPS games.
But I want the CoD series to keep the regen, it's more because that's what I'm used to rather than what's best and gives the fairest game though.
But I want the CoD series to keep the regen, it's more because that's what I'm used to rather than what's best and gives the fairest game though.
For me it depends on the type of game. For some games, like Gears of War and Halo, regenerating heath makes sense, as you are constantly going through a long series of firefights, and it it more fun when you don't have to hunt around for health packs after every battle. Some games, though, need heath bars to make them work. Stalker, for example, wouldn't be anywhere near as scary, atmospheric or tense if it had quickly regenerating health. It would also be far too easy.
It depends mostly on the pace of the game, for example in Halo (disregarding the suit and any "in-lore" reasons for health regen) a health bar concept would be very awkward because its generally a quick run 'n' gun game, ever play the cortana level on legendary? yeah have health packs for that, god i hated that level.
But for other games such as Half-Life (sorry couldnt think of another example) you dont have a proper cover system but you still hide, slows the pace a bit but it works well, a regenerating health bar would screw with the mechanics we love.
So the general rule would appear to be fast paced games = regenerating health
Medium pace = health packs
Then we get unreal tournament, regenerating health in that? it simply wouldnt work because its pace is faaaar too quick (at least the way i play hehe).
This is all ignoring multiplayer where a regenerating health is best in all relatively fast games, once again excluding UT which is an exception to my little rule.
So in conclusion i reckon its pretty hard to come up with a perfect rule and that both health systems should be used based on the game at hand.
But for other games such as Half-Life (sorry couldnt think of another example) you dont have a proper cover system but you still hide, slows the pace a bit but it works well, a regenerating health bar would screw with the mechanics we love.
So the general rule would appear to be fast paced games = regenerating health
Medium pace = health packs
Then we get unreal tournament, regenerating health in that? it simply wouldnt work because its pace is faaaar too quick (at least the way i play hehe).
This is all ignoring multiplayer where a regenerating health is best in all relatively fast games, once again excluding UT which is an exception to my little rule.
So in conclusion i reckon its pretty hard to come up with a perfect rule and that both health systems should be used based on the game at hand.