Poll: HL2 Cover Systems: Yes or no

[shadow skill]

Strafe:

And I'm pretty sure you've missed a couple of logic steps with your stealth game analogy because it doesn't make any sense.

It makes sense when you consider the fact that Call of Duty 4 has lean buttons in the PC version, as does FEAR, Crysis, and Far Cry. what you are suggesting would mean that all of these games I just listed are "Tactical shooters."

Hell most "Tactical shooters" involve some sort of squad based combat which Half Life 2 has though the game is not built around such a mechanic. If I was to go with your assertion it would mean that Half Life 2 is a "Tactical shooter" because of the squad based game mechanic. My point with my analogy is that Thief, Splinter Cell, and Tenchu are all stealth based games irrespective of the fact that one of those games (Thief) does not have a mechanic for flattening oneself against a wall.

I fail to see what the problem is with a button that modifies the strafe keys so that they serve as lean left and lean right respectively sine that really is all a cover system really is in the first place, really no different from the strafe modifier in many FPS'.

 

[Lucane]

Wow, i'm gonna have to say Gordon doesn't need a cover system (like others before me said) because he has options of cover all around corner of walls, gravity gun with anything you can pick-up, turrets Alyx hacks etc.
If you add a cover system to it now the game won't likely be optional. In every game i've seen a cover system in it it just gives you 1 of 3 options when the current area has alot of cover.
1. A Lead Sandwich
2. Duck an Fire
3. Magicly become Neo and assassinate every last son of a gun in the room before they get a chance to reload.

So if you are then forced to take cover at some point it means your not likely to get past with out killing several people who would easily kill you if you were out in the open for 15 seconds straight.

Also hows cover gonna stop Zombie crab head monters from biting you? (especially if they havn't aqquired or recently lost a host body an do the whole jumping thing?)

 

[shadow skill]

Fix-the-spade do you not realize that all cover systems are just a way of collapsing the lean keys in some fps' onto one key?
.

That's exactly my problem with it, it compresses all the possible options into one handy button. So instead of having to think about the situation and what might be appropriatte, the game just becomes: Wall=Cover button--->fire

Given that Rainbow six, SOCOM and co manage lean, crouch, run and jump on a controller kind of negates any argument that there aren't enough buttons.

Also, it removes several options because it welds you to the spot until you use it again, you could add a modifier button to movement for a better effect. Pressing iron sights/scope view roots you to the spot, but using the left stick controls lean from first person, let go of the button and movement starts again. It's a similar system, but better for first person.

The ability to see round corners without any risk also irks me. If a cover system is supposed to be tactical, where's the tactics in being able to see everything with no risk? You may as well be able to see through the walls and be done with it.

It depends on how a game wants to use the buttons on a console controller really. I prefer just having forward be the modifier of taking cover, though if you do that it should be a "You are in cover as long as you apply gentle pressure to the stick" system if you are talking about a controller based game. Buttons are not disposable on control pads but even on keyboards I think there is an obsession with keyboard spam with some of the newer games Half Life 2 has about nine that you definitely will use, and Half Life 2 is one of the better ones when it comes to minimizing keyboard spam. As far as seeing around corners there are a few more realistic ways to handle that, what if Gordon was able to tie a broken car mirror to his crowbar and when he went into cover he could kind of stick the mirror out in order to view where enemies were around the corner while retaining the first person view and logically dealing with the problem of how to see the enemies without exposing major parts of his body?

If you wanted to get high tech you could give Gordon a snake cam like device, or you could just attach a camera to his guns. Personally I favor the mirror because it would force players to adjust for the fact that the reflection is flipped around rather than being an accurate representation of the world. In that way you turn reflections into more than just an inconsequential but nice touch into a valuable mechanic for the player and even enemies to take advantage of.

 

[Strafe Mcgee]

Strafe:
It makes sense when you consider the fact that Call of Duty 4 has lean buttons in the PC version, as does FEAR, Crysis, and Far Cry. what you are suggesting would mean that all of these games I just listed are "Tactical shooters."

No it doesn't, if you'd read my previous post you'd see that I said:

When I say 'tactical action', assume that I'm talking about militaristic third person action games with cover-based systems like the previously mentioned games. (Gears Of War, Army Of Two, Rainbow 6 etc)

Half-Life could use a lean function, granted. Any more than this would be over-complicating the game and is unnecessary anyway. There's plenty of cover to be found that can be used, as several other users of the forum have mentioned already. To be honest shadow skill, judging the criticisms and changes that you asked for in your Half-Life 3 thread you might just be better off playing something else. You seem quite opposed to many of the ideas that help to define Half-Life. This isn't a bad thing, but maybe it's just not your game?

 

[propertyofcobra]

Am I the only one who thinks that, as a pale pasty nerd from MIT, Gordon Freeman is probably the game character in most need of some cover? He ain't no Master Chief with recharging shields, he's an easily breakable human being with only 100 health points. When you're taking on an alien invasion force all on your own, a slab of concrete is your best friend.

Only those 100 hit points last way longer than the "big strong" Master Chief's pathetic health ever will.
Put both of them in front of enemy fire for a few seconds. See who dies first. Any difficulty, doesn't matter.
Master Chief is, really, a pretty big wimp. He's of the new group of weak-ass pathetic FPS heroes who use the wolverine system, as opposed to the good old hardasses with hit points measured in percents (instead of hit points measured in screen redness).

Master Chief needs cover, Gordon Freeman MAKES cover without even needing it. He's just that badass.

 

[Drong]

Didn't they do leaning on the source engine with Day of Defeat? (been a while since i've played it)

 

[mwhite67]

When people have a shootout in real life they use cover they don't just awkwardly crouch down behind a wall. Why do you want it to be less realistic?

 

[MattyDienhoff]

Call me old fashioned, but all I want is a lean function. In the end, it accomplishes the same thing and comes across as a lot less gimmicky.

 

[shadow skill]

Strafe:
It makes sense when you consider the fact that Call of Duty 4 has lean buttons in the PC version, as does FEAR, Crysis, and Far Cry. what you are suggesting would mean that all of these games I just listed are "Tactical shooters."

No it doesn't, if you'd read my previous post you'd see that I said:

When I say 'tactical action', assume that I'm talking about militaristic third person action games with cover-based systems like the previously mentioned games. (Gears Of War, Army Of Two, Rainbow 6 etc)

Half-Life could use a lean function, granted. Any more than this would be over-complicating the game and is unnecessary anyway. There's plenty of cover to be found that can be used, as several other users of the forum have mentioned already. To be honest shadow skill, judging the criticisms and changes that you asked for in your Half-Life 3 thread you might just be better off playing something else. You seem quite opposed to many of the ideas that help to define Half-Life. This isn't a bad thing, but maybe it's just not your game?

Didn't I say that cover systems do not define what a "Tactical shooter" is, have I not been saying that your premise that they do is false?

Well, nearly every game I've played so far with a cover mechanic has involved the player being stuck to a wall at some point or another. And I'm not saying that the cover system hasn't worked for other games. It works rather nicely in GoW. But HL2 is a different kind of game. I admit, however, that I haven't played GRAW or Rainbow 6: Vegas because I'm not a fan of realistic gaming.

Again there is this premise that a "Tactical shooter is defined by a key to modify strafe left and strafe right into lean left and lean right.

Quoting myself now:

The premise of Half-Life really has nothing to do with whether a cover mechanic is a good or bad thing. Suggesting that the cover systems in Tactical shooters are a genre related entity is a bit like claiming that Thief was an action game rather than a stealth game like Tenchu or Splinter Cell because you could not flatten yourself against a wall in Thief like you can in Tenchu or Splinter Cell.

Crysis is also a sci-fi shooter (One I wish wouldn't bring my computer to its knees so I could play more than just the demo.) and its also very "tactical" because you can use the jungle environment to conceal yourself as well as the different suit powers. You can do simillar things in Half Life; if you see Combine and headcrabbed people battling you can run in and get shot too, or you can wait to see who wins and save your ammo, or you can sneak up behind an unsuspecting Combine and double barrel shotgun his ass, then grenade his buddies and the headcrabbed people who are busy with each other and don't see the grenade.

You really should actually read what people are saying, Why should I limit myself to third person shooters because you have no frame of reference other than those type of games; where as I can point to games like FEAR, Far Cry, Call of Duty 4 (PC version), and Crysis that all have lean commands which is exactly what a cover system is in the first place? This of course just goes back to my point about Half Life's premise not mattering at all in this discussion. Unless you want to define FEAR, Far Cry, Crysis, and Call of Duty 4 as "Tactical shooters?"

 

[Eagle Est1986]

100% no! With 32 votes, most impressive, useless poll award?

I just thought I would clearify things with the rest of the forum community, and clearify I did.

Lol, I was just teasing but even now, it's a very one sided thread.

 

[Yaotl]

Cover systems are for console FPS games because they need to compensate for crappy controls, in PC FPS games this is easily recreated, and Half-Life never had the kind of battles where cover is nessecary and forcing it into Half-Life would radically change the gameplay from that of an intense interactive FPS to a slow cover-fire Mass Effect style pseudo-combat game.

 

[shadow skill]

Cover systems are for console FPS games because they need to compensate for crappy controls, in PC FPS games this is easily recreated, and Half-Life never had the kind of battles where cover is nessecary and forcing it into Half-Life would radically change the gameplay from that of an intense interactive FPS to a slow cover-fire Mass Effect style pseudo-combat game.

What's FEAR then? What's Call of Duty 4, What's Far Cry, What's Crysis? Those are all slow games now?

 

[thejoblot]

A cover system would make the game too easy. Gordon's already a tank with 100 suit charge and 100 health; I'm sure the player can shrug off some bullets.

 

[thejoblot]

Cover systems are for console FPS games because they need to compensate for crappy controls, in PC FPS games this is easily recreated, and Half-Life never had the kind of battles where cover is nessecary and forcing it into Half-Life would radically change the gameplay from that of an intense interactive FPS to a slow cover-fire Mass Effect style pseudo-combat game.

"Half-Life never had the kind of battles where cover is necessary." Ever fight a Strider or a Hunter?

 

[mathias53]

Poll should have been: "Should Half-Life 2: Episode 3 have a cover system"

How do you know? But whatever, nothings perfect.

 

[mathias53]

100% no! With 32 votes, most impressive, useless poll award?

I just thought I would clearify things with the rest of the forum community, and clearify I did.

Lol, I was just teasing but even now, it's a very one sided thread.

Oh OK, and i see your point. Its pretty much unanimous (spelling?)

 

[courier]

Gordon Freeman is always behind cover: the HEV suit, which makes him practically a walking tank. Gordon Freeman doesn't take cover, people take cover behind Gordon Freeman.

 

[shadow skill]

A cover system would make the game too easy. Gordon's already a tank with 100 suit charge and 100 health; I'm sure the player can shrug off some bullets.

And if you are not maxed out? Because you know through out the course of the game you are definitely going to get hit.....