Poll: How about a ''Vs. America' shooter?
- Thread starter Danistuta
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Well in all fairness, any side that's primary strategy is to blow up their own people or shove them out into the street during a firefight knowing their enemy probably won't immediately open fire on them now since there's a risk civilians will be hit probably aren't the nicest people.Patton662 said:
OT: Sounds interesting, but unfortunately it would never fly, I'd rather see it in Vietnam than the Middle East though, much greyer war there. Not one I really supported though, the only thing we were protecting was a dictator.
I don't know why but paying attention to those two parts reminded me of ps2's Area 51. Now if that wasn't a conspiracy nut game I don't what is.k-ossuburb said:
I think All Quiet on the Western Front would work for this. The book is considered very powerful for showing that the German "enemies" were also people, and not evil babyeaters like the propaganda of the time showed. Since the book is so well-respected, an adaptation or homage might be the only way the public would accept a game where the player is a German fighting against the French, English, and Americans.
See, they TRIED the very lowest form of that in Medal of Honor. That went well, didn't it?Danistuta said:
Those are my favorite special forces! *Ahem* Yeah, they should make a game like that.SnootyEnglishman said:
Either that or keep it much like an excellent documentary I once saw that tried it's best to get the sides of both allied soldiers and axis soldiers. The documentary also covered a lot of the social life in the various countries before, during, and after the war through footage, journal entries, and civilian interviews. It clearly painted the picture that everyone was doing downright shitty stuff as well as heroic and there was never a true "good side".Chamale said:
It was also unbelievably depressing. Especially from the people that were ruined mentally and/or physically for years until they finally were able to recover and move on. I'm still reminded of one guy who looked completely nuts mostly due to brain damage he took from the conflict. That's what war games need though. They need the feeling that no one side is truly "good" or "bad". That way no one side becomes nothing but fodder.
It would be kinda hard to control 200 men without gradually converting to RTS. Maybe I need to play this "Mount & Blade" thing.Usurpurus said:I just had a brainwave.OhJohnNo said:
Imagine a game, the only objective of the game is world domination. Imagine your map + Mount and Blade-esque game + BFBC2 classes + MW2/BlOps customisation.
Bascially, you join a country or nation or whatever then from there start as a simple infantryman or other such class in a war ie engineer or whatever. You work your way up, gaining reputation, seizing countries or territories, each map having around 200 npcs, your allies and the enemy. You could possibly chuck vehicles in there too. Meanwhile, as you gain rank you can customise your weaponry, equipment etc more and more. The higher your rank, the more actual NPCs you can control, eg a sergeant would lead like 5-15 or something while a general would like 200 or something while also having subordinates who lead people. You would also have different backdrops for battles eg, african settings, european etc as well as actual cities and things you fight in. The maps wouldn't need to be ridiculously detailed though. Also, depending on the map there could be an objective ie bomb site or just a straight bloodbath.
Anyone who has played M&B would understand this idea could easily work.
Sorry this is slightly off topic I just had to surface this
OT: developers/producers need to know their game will sell, especially if they put work into it. A game where you kill americans will make sales in the US, the prime market, go down maybe even banned.
Anyway, did you just quote me because my insane map kick-started your brainwave?
Alright, I know you were kind of kidding, but... how has this game not happened yet? I mean, it sounds completely awesome! With both a Union and Confederacy campaign...fanklok said:
Get with the program, people! Somebody make this game!
On topic, yeah, I guess it would be a nice change of pace to play as the bad guys. And make no mistake, in all the modern (WWII and later) wars we've fought, we have been fighting "bad guys". I'm not saying we haven't acted pretty dickish ourselves at times (Vietnam, anyone?), but the more recent enemies the U.S. has fought against have always been complete bastards.
not really; i'm not the most patriotic person out there, but i wouldn't buy a shooter where i kill Americans. i would however, buy a game where i'm a giant monster who eats Americans. as long as it has good reviews.
Well, actually you've already seen things like that. Rogue goverment agencies and the like are a stock villain at this point. The Bourne movies (and the game based on them) has you fighting the US almost constantly. The SPAWN games put you up against the US intelligence community, and similar things.Danistuta said:
The problem with most of the groups people tend to suggest for this kind of thing is that they are out there, and I don't think rogue nations need that kind of encouragement. America bashing only goes so far, we might be the dominant world power, but I don't think most nations exactly support the guys we're fighting against either. I look at how in France you had those Muslim riots years ago.
It's also a matter of the fact that everyone understands our engagement doctrine, we're not an Empire, and in general people whine at us largely because they know that our institutionalized morality makes that more effective than direct military action in getting a reaction from us. If we don't have Martial Law declared and are controlling information, the same media that makes American culture infectious is also our big weakness.
The "World Police" Analogy that some people mock is kind of accurate. Like a cop in real life nobody wants us around or up in their business enforcing general order and policy, but when they need us for something then everyone is their best friend.
Other than a fringe of extremists and whackos, I don't think there are many people who really want to kill Americans or our military even if they complain about it being involved in places. After all we're the guys who show up with the relief efforts, intervene to stop genocides and provide police forces, hunt down pirates most of the time (though we have pulled out of that a lot recently, with some other nations stepping up more than they were before), and similar things. As sappy as it sounds, you have a problem out in the middle of the ocean one of the most welcome sights you can see is a US Naval vessel... well unless of course YOUR the problem.
See, one of the things to understand is that everyone knows America, it doesn't much matter who you are. Few people really know other countries, their culture, or how they are relevent. The US having global exposure being a dominant world power, and generally speaking a benevolent force especially compared to similar nations, means that the US can be associated with. Somewhat Jingoistic US military actions can be enjoyed in the same vein as civilians enjoying "Tough Cop" movies. Oh sure, I don't like people actually enforcing the law that way IRL (your typical Bruce Willis character would be thrown off the force in record time), but it's fun to watch. Your typical guy in a country buying video games, is generally going to agree on who the bad guys are in most of these games.
Truthfully I think some of the complaints about the US-centric approach to games is in part because a lot of people in other countries sort of wish it could be them doing the same stuff just as practically. Nobody wants to be accused of envy, and pretty much everyone is going to deny it, but that's what it comes down to.
To put things into perspective, a "Black Ops." type game about say Poland going toe to toe with the Russian military wouldn't work. "Black Ops." more or less depend on it being impractial to respond to the people performing them, even if you know who did it. The US being a global super power, a war with which would end in global armageddon, is one thing. On the other hand if Poland poked the bear to the same extent, it would probably have wound up getting decimated especially at that time. Sure the US might intervene on it's behalf but then it would be another Cold War front with the Russians sending in troops and the US sending in supplies and advisors, while the countryside gets leveled like Afghanistan as neither side takes a definate advantage for political reasons and everyone continues to threaten/imply nuclear force while nothing ever happens except a deadlock arm wrestling match with a lot of collateral damage.
Now, a guy from Poland might appreciate such a game and argue "suspension of Disbelief" about the Polish Special Forces. There might even be some ops they got away with at some point (and were very lucky about) that could be used as inspiration. On the other hand if you were to release "Black Ops. : Polish Commandos" internationally a guy in say South Korean is liable to look at it and go "WTF is this, it's like some ridiculous Polish power fantasy", assuming he even knows much about Poland.
Suspension of disbelief is simply easier with the US right now. If a world unity never occurs and another nation eclipses us in the same way, it might very well become a new "universal" factor for international media.
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At any rate, in short I don't think anti-USA games are a great idea right now, and truthfully while there are people who would love to get themselves some US-bashing, I honestly don't think there is that big a market for what is implied here.
Someone already put "the Taliban" into a game, even if they were changed to "Opposing Force" and it remains somewhat contreversial. I don't think any conflicts that are ongoing, or as recent as even Veitnam or Korea are good fodder for "playable anti-American forces" or as overall themes for a game.
This is all simply my opinions though.
To be entirely honest though, with enough time past once the conflicts are over, such media might become more appropriate. For example, there are movies and such now that portray Native Americans as heroes fighting against the encroachment of the white man, or seeking vengeance for some crime committed on a reservation. It's generally fringe cinema, but it can be found as a theme if you look. In a century or so, playing a game where your a Veit Cong dude attacking American GIs during the "Tet Offensive" might be viewed similarly given the amount of time passed since the actual events.
Also, all rambling and logical discourse aside, I don't think this is a logical desire. I think people who want US-bashing games, want them to insult America, not due to any academic interest. Yahtzee doesn't make any bones about his Anti-Americanism for the most part for example.
Yeah... Go against the country with only 300 million people, but is also the world's sole superpower. No, not gonna end well. There will not be a AAA game against America until we fall. Hard. Being the big bad bully on the playground has some advantages when someone wants to poke fun at you.
Yeah, sure. Are you American? If i was American i'd probably do the same thing.Darth_Jack said:
fighting against our Macho Flag-waving military that uses assault rifles against people armed with sharp sticks? yes please.
-wait, I just realized. This could be a trap. The government could be tracking our IP addresses and arresting anyone who says an anti-American war game is a good idea!!
...Or that could just be the leftover turkey making me paranoid.
EDIT: I just realized: Doesn't Fallout 2,3, and New Vegas, depending on what path you take, actually have you fighting against the US Gov't? In Fallout 2 and 3, you have the option to kill the President of the US(who is portrayed as evil), and in New Vegas, you have the option to fight against the NCR, which is essentially the US reincarnated.
Just a thought.
-wait, I just realized. This could be a trap. The government could be tracking our IP addresses and arresting anyone who says an anti-American war game is a good idea!!
...Or that could just be the leftover turkey making me paranoid.
EDIT: I just realized: Doesn't Fallout 2,3, and New Vegas, depending on what path you take, actually have you fighting against the US Gov't? In Fallout 2 and 3, you have the option to kill the President of the US(who is portrayed as evil), and in New Vegas, you have the option to fight against the NCR, which is essentially the US reincarnated.
Just a thought.