Poll: I do not feel more respect or admiration for military personnel than I do for anyone else.
- Thread starter BubbleGumSnareDrum
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I was going to comment on that but it appears you have made me redundant. I'd just like to add that that kind of thinking is completely irrational and incredibly laughable as you are living in a country where you have the absolute right to do so...which I'm sure you would argue those soldiers are fighting for and use that as justification as to why we should shut up.MaxTheReaper said:
Agreed. I find it bizarre that anyone thinks that they can lay claim to a section of the Earth. Yeah, I get that it's how the world works but it strikes me as a little preposterous. It's also a little asinine that a nation can claim ownership of something they blatantly stole from another group of people.MaxTheReaper said:
Just because someone puts on a uniform, it doesn't automatically guarantee them divinity and superiority over the rest of us. Think about it: you're asking us to believe that the officers who murdered Rodney King or the soldiers who massacred and then covered up My Lai deserve respect. Feel free to argue that they were under pressure.
Finally, just because you're against a war doesn't mean you're for the other side or that you don't support the soldiers involved.
Australia doesn't for that exact reason. When all the other children start blowing the crap out of each other, Aus will be huddled in the southern hemisphere trying to look non-threatening as we prepare for nuclear winter. We just sell you all our juicy uranium, which might be a bit silly in retrospect.MaxTheReaper said:
Nuclear Winter: given how we like our weather, it might be a fate worse than fiery death.
No worries, she'll be right.
Okay, I voted for "do not view them differently than other people", which is usually true. In most cases, people in the military (at least the American military, I can't honestly say anything about other countries' militaries), aren't much different from other people. However, several of the military people that I have personally encountered (including 2 privates, 1 sergeant, and 3 lieutenants), fell into either one of 2 groups: 1) So overly patriotic and frat-boyish that they came off as a little psychotic (but not enough so to really be more of a danger than they should be... they are in the military after all), or 2) Psychotic, sadistic bastards that openly chat about what they would (or have done) to prisoners or alleged terrorists, and how in their view, there is no such thing as an innocent bystander in the Middle East (I STRONGLY disagree with that view). Now while this is all that I have personally encountered of my country's military, I can't judge the entire army based around what a few nut jobs kept going on about. Because in total, I've only met 6 soldiers total, which isn't even enough people to base a credible survey on.
That's about all I have to say...
That's about all I have to say...
This brings up the problem in this. Some people use this as an excuse to support them.Sindaine said:
But if we started comparing people and making judgments on the minority we would be saying all Arabians are terrorists, whiteys be burning blackies on crosses, and germans are very evil people.
But, making judgments by using the minority instead of the majority is fail logic.
Most soldiers are just like you and I. While there is no intelligence requirement, most are normal people fighting for their country. Fighting. Not sitting on their ass arguing about what they do.
"I am morally opposed to the entire idea of the military".
Ugh.
Why not just replace this tosh with: "Generic pretentious option for those sanctimoniously inclined".
Ugh.
Why not just replace this tosh with: "Generic pretentious option for those sanctimoniously inclined".
Brainwashed idiots?CaptainEgypt said:
if people didn't volunteer there would be a draft.
Some people are desperate, want to get through school. etc
Its really dumb to just assume that everyone who joins the army is a blood thirsty monster.
Desolate wasteland isn't exaclty correct, but no, it's not exactly heavily populated. That just means, however, that we're packed onto the coast where one nuke would wreak habit. That and radiation, of course, we might be hardy as a dingo's nuts but radiation just doesn't give a damn.MaxTheReaper said:
We get on well with America, despite our dissaproval of their actions. Hell, if you ever read some period sources from WWII, Aus and America were practically brothers, and still are to an extent. We don't exactly sell to everyone, and we do send troops in support of America and freedom and all that jazz, so the sidelines aren't exactly our sitting ground.MaxTheReaper said:
That said, however, we're counting on being obscure enough and having small targets to save us when the microwave blitz comes.
Well then it's quite unfair for you to assume that everyone in the military is nothing more than a hired thug.CaptainEgypt said:
I've had two cousins join the military. The only change I've seen in them is that they are more competent. They did not desire to be constantly killing people. They wanted to protect and serve the country. I'd say the psychological effect the military has varies from person to person. It can depend on what you experienced in war and what you were like before joining.
One more thing. The military serves a purpose. That purpose is not to bully other countries or function as nothing more than the governments brainwashed pawns. They protect us. While you may claim that they are not protecting us from any immediate threats, it's the power and strength of a military that prevents other countries from even attacking one country in the first place.
Actually, they don't kill on demand. Geneva convention and other things disallow killing of non-combatants. (Meaning, generally civilians are killed during accidents trying to kill the combatants.)
The military isn't a bunch of blood thirsty retards, there are people who maybe, but then we come back to people making a inference using the minority verses the majority.
IT'S FAIL LOGIC
The military isn't a bunch of blood thirsty retards, there are people who maybe, but then we come back to people making a inference using the minority verses the majority.
IT'S FAIL LOGIC
This thread reminds me of the poem Dulce et Decorum Est, a rather moving poem written by Wilfred Owen during World War 1. You can read it here - http://www.warpoetry.co.uk/owen1.html - if you want. For those of you who don't know, the poems title refers to the old saying "Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori", which basically translates as "It is sweet and fitting to die for one's country".
My personal view on military organisations is that, as sad is this may be, they are necessary. While I despise this fact, it has been proven throughout history that any country that can't adequately defend itself is going to get snapped up by the first nation to come along with ideas of Imperialism.
As for the people who work within these organisations, I think that it's incredibly foolish to believe that all soldiers are heroes and saints, just as I think it's incredibly foolish to believe that all soldiers are evil thugs. Of course, there some soldiers who are just in for the killing, and there are some soldiers who believe that they are defending their country. There are myriad reasons why someone might sign up, ranging from family tradition to just plain needing a job. To answer the poll's question, unless I had reason to do otherwise, I don't think that I'd treat millitary personnel differently to how I treat pretty much everyone else - with severe frustration and dissapointment, but I just hate humanity as a whole.
I suppose it really doesn't help that the wars that our armed forces are currently engaged in are incredibly morally spurious. That our leaders claim that we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan to defend against terrorism and injustice, when we just sit by and let atrocities elsewhere continue, is blatantly absurd. It's just more proof that too few people really care about anything unless it directly effects them.
Some terrorists kill a few thousand of my fellow countrymen? "Those bastards! To war and damn the consequences!"
A distant Military Dictatorship begins exterminating ethnic minorities? "How awful! Anyone for cricket?"
My personal view on military organisations is that, as sad is this may be, they are necessary. While I despise this fact, it has been proven throughout history that any country that can't adequately defend itself is going to get snapped up by the first nation to come along with ideas of Imperialism.
As for the people who work within these organisations, I think that it's incredibly foolish to believe that all soldiers are heroes and saints, just as I think it's incredibly foolish to believe that all soldiers are evil thugs. Of course, there some soldiers who are just in for the killing, and there are some soldiers who believe that they are defending their country. There are myriad reasons why someone might sign up, ranging from family tradition to just plain needing a job. To answer the poll's question, unless I had reason to do otherwise, I don't think that I'd treat millitary personnel differently to how I treat pretty much everyone else - with severe frustration and dissapointment, but I just hate humanity as a whole.
I suppose it really doesn't help that the wars that our armed forces are currently engaged in are incredibly morally spurious. That our leaders claim that we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan to defend against terrorism and injustice, when we just sit by and let atrocities elsewhere continue, is blatantly absurd. It's just more proof that too few people really care about anything unless it directly effects them.
Some terrorists kill a few thousand of my fellow countrymen? "Those bastards! To war and damn the consequences!"
A distant Military Dictatorship begins exterminating ethnic minorities? "How awful! Anyone for cricket?"
I am morally opposed to the entire idea of the military.
Your first reply said;
That said, I do not show any more respect to soldiers than to other people, due to the simple fact that (as far as I know) ALL military spots in my country require a conscious decision to be in the army.
Needless to say however, there are some tasks the army performs that basically equal charity. Men who choose to perform these tasks willingly and join the army purely for that reason demand my respect.
Your first reply said;
Which is 100% true, but no reason for me not to strife for it. Whatever the way to a good life for everybody is, it's not violence and weapons as both always lead to hurt and pain on at least one side.iain62a said:
That said, I do not show any more respect to soldiers than to other people, due to the simple fact that (as far as I know) ALL military spots in my country require a conscious decision to be in the army.
Needless to say however, there are some tasks the army performs that basically equal charity. Men who choose to perform these tasks willingly and join the army purely for that reason demand my respect.
I wouldn't say that I see everyone in the armed forces as heroes, but I do have a lot of respect for them. It takes a lot to be in the military, and it's a very honorable thing to do with your life.
And the uniforms are awesome.
And the uniforms are awesome.