Poll: I have a question for the ladies

[bug_chaser]

I'm gonna say "money" and hope the answer is actually "cynicism."

 

[Asymptote Angel]

MySpace-type rant!
Don't say looks aren't a deciding factor. Like someone said above, 90% of the time, looks are used to make an immediate judgment of how close a girl is willing to get. Think about it.

I'm a genuinely sweet guy (or so I've been told). I respect women as independent and support their decisions regardless of whether I agree with them. I'm pretty intelligent. I make people laugh. I'm basically the ideal person that everyone's been describing. But girls always immediately put me in the friend zone because I'm just someone nice they can talk to. I'm not ugly, but I'm not gorgeous; that's the only thing I'm missing. Come on. That and I'm not a jerk, but I refuse to do that. It makes me feel guilty.

I realize that people need friends that they can confide in and stuff, but am I really the only person who's available for that? What about that cackling group of friends that follows every girl around and who they have extremely deep, emotional conversations with? Can't use them as your outlet? Or am I just your "practice guy," someone who's a big enough loser that you feel okay just using me to get a feel for how to talk to guys? Do people have any idea how degrading that is?

I understand that maybe you want a friend that you can just talk with and not have it be anything more than normal friend stuff, but why does every freakin' girl I meet immediately and irreversibly decide I have to be that guy?! Blah.

Lame emotional rant over.

 

[ryuutchi]

MySpace-type rant!
Don't say looks aren't a deciding factor. Like someone said above, 90% of the time, looks are used to make an immediate judgment of how close a girl is willing to get. Think about it.

I'm a genuinely sweet guy (or so I've been told). I respect women as independent and support their decisions regardless of whether I agree with them. I'm pretty intelligent. I make people laugh. I'm basically the ideal person that everyone's been describing. But girls always immediately put me in the friend zone because I'm just someone nice they can talk to. I'm not ugly, but I'm not gorgeous; that's the only thing I'm missing. Come on. That and I'm not a jerk, but I refuse to do that. It makes me feel guilty.

I realize that people need friends that they can confide in and stuff, but am I really the only person who's available for that? What about that cackling group of friends that follows every girl around and who they have extremely deep, emotional conversations with? Can't use them as your outlet? Or am I just your "practice guy," someone who's a big enough loser that you feel okay just using me to get a feel for how to talk to guys? Do people have any idea how degrading that is?

I understand that maybe you want a friend that you can just talk with and not have it be anything more than normal friend stuff, but why does every freakin' girl I meet immediately and irreversibly decide I have to be that guy?! Blah.

Lame emotional rant over.

I'm going to take a stab in the dark that that's because you don't either tell the girls straight out that you like them and you're not interested in an actual friendship. This is what is known in common parlance among us girl-folk as a Nice Guy (tm). In fact, quite a number of guys in this thread are exhibiting the classic symptoms of the species Nerdus Passiveaggressius.

Here is how NOT to be attractive to women.

Do you:
Spend your time whining about how women "just want to date jerks"?

Are you:
Oblivious to the fact that no one finds people who feel sorry for themselves attractive, much less people who blame others for their lack of success?

Most self proclaimed "nice guys" are just as self-centered and misogynistic as the jerks they gripe about, they are just much more spineless. Too stupid to figure why women don't find them attractive, they conclude that in order to get laid they must treat a woman like shit. They tend to befriend women with the expectation that women owe them something more than friendship, then get all pissed off when the women tells them she'™s not interested.

This right here? This is what women don't want. So all you guys saying women want "jerks"? No, they just don't want you

 

[Asymptote Angel]

Argument, not quoted for the sake of being long.

That's a rather unfair assumption. I actually don't whine about how lonely I am because I know that no human being I know actually wants to hear shit like that. I feel alright doing it in a place like the internet, where any idea can be thrown out anonymously and answers, one way or another, are guaranteed.

And I'm not blaming others (girls in this case, or jerks, depending on how you look at it). I'm just looking for an answer as to why I, as someone who possesses the traits that supposedly make me an ideal member of a relationship, am never seen as a viable partner. I never said I was looking to get laid, and I said that treating a woman like shit is entirely beneath me. If it makes me spineless that I think no advance is better than a disrespectful one, sorry. I think rapists tend to have that mindset.

My definition of a nice guy is not someone who spills his emotions everywhere at the slightest provocation, but someone who is willing to listen when someone else is having a difficult time and is there for you when you need him. I'm talking about emotional intimacy, which is what I believe intimate relationships are all about. I just want to know why someone who offers a refuge of kindness, patience, and a willingness to spend time together is rarely seen as someone worth having intimacy with.

Of course I'm interested in "actual friendships," whatever your definition for those is. I just want to be able to find something deeper. I tend not to straight out tell people "hey, I like you" because that puts them on the spot and it's the least romantic thing I can possibly think of doing. I prefer to be subtle, and if the lady in question is interested in me, she'll pick up on the cues. It's worked a couple times, but I want to know what the general populace--not three girls I knew in high school--is looking for. I have what the rest of the thread proclaimed as important, in some quantity. I definitely don't whine about myself to people I know. What am I missing?

 

[The Legendary Phoenix]

Argument, not quoted for the sake of being long.

That's a rather unfair assumption. I actually don't whine about how lonely I am because I know that no human being I know actually wants to hear shit like that. I feel alright doing it in a place like the internet, where any idea can be thrown out anonymously and answers, one way or another, are guaranteed.

And I'm not blaming others (girls in this case, or jerks, depending on how you look at it). I'm just looking for an answer as to why I, as someone who possesses the traits that supposedly make me an ideal member of a relationship, am never seen as a viable partner. I never said I was looking to get laid, and I said that treating a woman like shit is entirely beneath me. If it makes me spineless that I think no advance is better than a disrespectful one, sorry. I think rapists tend to have that mindset.

My definition of a nice guy is not someone who spills his emotions everywhere at the slightest provocation, but someone who is willing to listen when someone else is having a difficult time and is there for you when you need him. I'm talking about emotional intimacy, which is what I believe intimate relationships are all about. I just want to know why someone who offers a refuge of kindness, patience, and a willingness to spend time together is rarely seen as someone worth having intimacy with.

Of course I'm interested in "actual friendships," whatever your definition for those is. I just want to be able to find something deeper. I tend not to straight out tell people "hey, I like you" because that puts them on the spot and it's the least romantic thing I can possibly think of doing. I prefer to be subtle, and if the lady in question is interested in me, she'll pick up on the cues. It's worked a couple times, but I want to know what the general populace--not three girls I knew in high school--is looking for. I have what the rest of the thread proclaimed as important, in some quantity. I definitely don't whine about myself to people I know. What am I missing?

Not to sound sarcastic *which I'm not!* That is just about the smartest thing I've heard anyone say ever. And if that makes me some sort of pathetic loser....whoopdefrickindoo!

 

[Blow_Pop]

But WHY?

Good question. This thread title interested me (a male who originally had no intention of posting since the question was stated as not being for me) at first, and then proceeded to both amuse and irritate me in alternating turns.

What's amusing: The speed at which a thread started with the express purpose of garnering female opinions degenerated into a series of men replying to men (albeit with one well-humored lady interjecting periodically), avidly discussing penises.

What's annoying: Big patience points to miss April for actually humoring you morons, in such a rush to have any discussion about (and therefore imaginary attention on) your own favorite piece of anatomy. Being ashamed of the common casual behavior of my gender is by no means new to me, but it's still depressing to get new reasons thrown into my face.

To a small degree of credit, though, the thread did pick up on the intended topic of discussion some distance down and kept pretty steady, but there was still a pretty eye-rolling frequency of guys loudly defining "what women like" with an air of authority usually reserved only for the clergy, college math professors, and other generally arrogant twits. Some discussions are better listened to and learned from, than "improved" with your uninformed and unasked-for opinions, fellas.

see though its one of my favorite pieces of anatomy too, hence the humoring.

Guys here is a tip:
If you think you know what women want, most of the time you don't listen to the rare ones on here and take advice.

 

[Frank_Sinatra_]

Ok, here's my question

What do women search for in men?
Looks, Brains, Money, Power?
I'd like to know, and think it would be an interesting topic.
I'd also like to here what guys think they could be doing to seem appealing to women.

*To Escapist mods and such* If this thread is inappropriate by all means toss it out.

I go for brains and personality. If you don't have those, you don't have anything.....i don't care how cute you may be. Most of my exs are what are considered ugly by the general population...meh

the big one:
GOOD HYGIENE

Pah, good hygiene, brains, and personality are so overrated...

 

[Blow_Pop]

Ok, here's my question

What do women search for in men?
Looks, Brains, Money, Power?
I'd like to know, and think it would be an interesting topic.
I'd also like to here what guys think they could be doing to seem appealing to women.

*To Escapist mods and such* If this thread is inappropriate by all means toss it out.

I go for brains and personality. If you don't have those, you don't have anything.....i don't care how cute you may be. Most of my exs are what are considered ugly by the general population...meh

the big one:
GOOD HYGIENE

Pah, good hygiene, brains, and personality are so overrated...

you WOULD say that love. *rolls eyes*

 

[ryuutchi]

Argument, not quoted for the sake of being long.

I just want to be able to find something deeper. I tend not to straight out tell people "hey, I like you" because that puts them on the spot and it's the least romantic thing I can possibly think of doing. I prefer to be subtle, and if the lady in question is interested in me, she'll pick up on the cues. It's worked a couple times, but I want to know what the general populace--not three girls I knew in high school--is looking for. I have what the rest of the thread proclaimed as important, in some quantity. I definitely don't whine about myself to people I know. What am I missing?

Sorry. About half of that response was aimed at the rest of this thread, where you see a lot of responses about how women only like "jerks". It gets annoying after a while-- and remember, while online it's annoying, it's an extremely common attitude, which means it's one that women encounter with frequency offline, so a lot of women (not all of them, and not all of them are bothered by it, of course) have developed the ability to tell when there's an ulterior motive, which complicates this whole conversation. Some women don't like getting into a deeper relationship with a man who is-- or who they feel is-- their friend because he is sexually or emotionally attracted to them. Some women don't mind that as a jumping off point to their relationship. Some women don't want to be in a relationship with a man who was their friend first. Some women need to be told that you are interested in them, straight out.

You (general you-- this goes for every guy who's curious about "what women want", and even the self-proclaimed experts) need to remember that these people are individuals. Maybe your subtle approach didn't work because one girl felt you had ulterior motives and it made her uncomfortable, and you'd need to talk that out with her. Maybe another is just too oblivious for a "subtle" approach. Maybe one knows, but doesn't like making the first move. Maybe one woman likes a guy who can make her laugh, and another likes someone who's in the same economic bracket as her and a third just wants someone who's good in bed, and figures personality meshing can happen later.

(Anecdata: I am in my current relationship because we've been friends for a decade and the other person turned to me one day and said "You, know, we act like we're in a relationship anyway. Do you want to actually date?")

The women of the general populace are a huge mass of people. Don't just assume that any woman in the general populace is going to be the same as any other woman in the general populace, and is going to want the same thing out of a relationship. (It's the same as guys-- for all that "men want sex", in an actual relationship the reasons that different men go after, and click with, different women vary from person to person.)

 

[deranged_muppet]

Every girl is different in their choices. I personally look at the personality and see if a guy can keep up with me humor wise, if he can then looks are next.

 

[RebelRising]

As a man, I can safely say that it's personality that matters the most. Most women might go for looks or money first, though, then deal with the personality and brans stuff just before they rip off the man in the divorce proceedings.

 

[Delicious]

Long and relatively meaningless back and forth snipped

But WHY?

Good question. This thread title interested me (a male who originally had no intention of posting since the question was stated as not being for me) at first, and then proceeded to both amuse and irritate me in alternating turns.

What's amusing: The speed at which a thread started with the express purpose of garnering female opinions degenerated into a series of men replying to men (albeit with one well-humored lady interjecting periodically), avidly discussing penises.

What's annoying: Big patience points to miss April for actually humoring you morons, in such a rush to have any discussion about (and therefore imaginary attention on) your own favorite piece of anatomy. Being ashamed of the common casual behavior of my gender is by no means new to me, but it's still depressing to get new reasons thrown into my face.

To a small degree of credit, though, the thread did pick up on the intended topic of discussion some distance down and kept pretty steady, but there was still a pretty eye-rolling frequency of guys loudly defining "what women like" with an air of authority usually reserved only for the clergy, college math professors, and other generally arrogant twits. Some discussions are better listened to and learned from, than "improved" with your uninformed and unasked-for opinions, fellas.

lol u no liek penisisies?

Please, get off your damned high horse. The "omg every guy is an idiot except for me!" stance is and old one, and yours is as transparent as the rest. Second, the fact that neither you or April figured out that I might have been kidding amazes me. Seriously, you two might want to hang out with some of these guys you are condemning. You might've caught up on this.

Furthermore, those who don't know what women want never will, because they expect some magical criteria that, once filled, automatically makes the guy in question irrestible to the opposite sex. Here is a hint: it's never just one thing, and you aren't going to find the answer on a internet forum focused around videogames.

 

[Alucadrian]

Please, get off your damned high horse. The "omg every guy is an idiot except for me!" stance is and old one, and yours is as transparent as the rest. Second, the fact that neither you or April figured out that I might have been kidding amazes me. Seriously, you two might want to hang out with some of these guys you are condemning. You might've caught up on this.

Furthermore, those who don't know what women want never will, because they expect some magical criteria that, once filled, automatically makes the guy in question irrestible to the opposite sex. Here is a hint: it's never just one thing, and you aren't going to find the answer on a internet forum focused around videogames.

*grins, finally interested* Ah... a challenge, albeit of a rather brittle sort. Allow me to inform you, since you seem still trapped beneath the mistaken notion that simply demanding things with a stamp of your little foot brings about change in others: You shall have me off this high horse when you have the stones and the intellect to knock me from it, and not before.

...Nor soon, I'd wager.

*rolls eyes* I knew you were kidding. I'm willing to bet April did too. The point you're overlooking (perhaps willfully) is that I never claimed all guys were idiots save myself. Putting those words in my mouth would make me sound like a transparent Internet White Knight, seeking to define my worth by the many fallacies of others rather than any innate merit of my own; I'd give you credit for a minimally decent effort at twisting the situation to your advantage.

Unfortunately, all I actually said was that you sounded like an idiot, along with some idiot others, in ways that are typical of other idiots commonly found idioting about the landscape. And that grazing insult (and your irrelevant ego) aside, the greater point I was making still stands unaddressed: that every ineffectual flex of a half-formed sense of humor and laughably certain "truth" of just what drives women which has been offered by a male responder here is as rude and interruptive to the question's clearly-stated intent as a stranger leaping into a family photo.

Want the shorter version? Have at it, friend:

You're not a lady.

No one asked you.

You cannot reliably answer.

Shut.

Your.

Mouth.

 

[Shaenightbird]

I personally value intelligence above all in a man. Personality is next. Looks- meh. Too many people base everything on looks. So superficial. Power isn't something I need some man for, I have it already.

 

[insectoid]

It's different for every woman.

Nope

It's actually all goes into a few main needs

If that's what you want to believe.

 

[Delicious]

Please, get off your damned high horse. The "omg every guy is an idiot except for me!" stance is and old one, and yours is as transparent as the rest. Second, the fact that neither you or April figured out that I might have been kidding amazes me. Seriously, you two might want to hang out with some of these guys you are condemning. You might've caught up on this.

Furthermore, those who don't know what women want never will, because they expect some magical criteria that, once filled, automatically makes the guy in question irrestible to the opposite sex. Here is a hint: it's never just one thing, and you aren't going to find the answer on a internet forum focused around videogames.

*grins, finally interested* Ah... a challenge, albeit of a rather brittle sort. Allow me to inform you, since you seem still trapped beneath the mistaken notion that simply demanding things with a stamp of your little foot brings about change in others: You shall have me off this high horse when you have the stones and the intellect to knock me from it, and not before.

...Nor soon, I'd wager.

*rolls eyes* I knew you were kidding. I'm willing to bet April did too. The point you're overlooking (perhaps willfully) is that I never claimed all guys were idiots save myself. Putting those words in my mouth would make me sound like a transparent Internet White Knight, seeking to define my worth by the many fallacies of others rather than any innate merit of my own; I'd give you credit for a minimally decent effort at twisting the situation to your advantage.

Unfortunately, all I actually said was that you sounded like an idiot, along with some idiot others, in ways that are typical of other idiots commonly found idioting about the landscape. And that grazing insult (and your irrelevant ego) aside, the greater point I was making still stands unaddressed: that every ineffectual flex of a half-formed sense of humor and laughably certain "truth" of just what drives women which has been offered by a male responder here is as rude and interruptive to the question's clearly-stated intent as a stranger leaping into a family photo.

Want the shorter version? Have at it, friend:

You're not a lady.

No one asked you.

You cannot reliably answer.

Shut.

Your.

Mouth.

You talk quite a bit, but don't really say much. See, you never really specified how I was an idiot. Unless you mean to say that making one joke that you cannot see the humor in makes me an idiot. In which case i'm not worried then, as such a conclusion is laughable, unless you and you alone define what funny is or isn't. Which, if you did, I hope that the only jokes worthy of your laughter would be of a sophistication that would make the New Yorker look like, well, penis jokes. Right?

Anyway, all you really did was state that I am male and that I "cannot reliably answer". In bold text, nonetheless. Funny, I don't recall ever offering a real answer. In fact, if you read my previous post, I stated that no such answer can be ascertained by you, me, or anyone on this forum as no such answer exists that will be true in every circumstance. How's that for putting words in peoples mouths.

And speaking of egos, you shouldn't narrate your actions. Makes you sound like ridiculous, like the main character of your own fiction novel.

 

[Alucadrian]

Anyway, all you really did was state that I am male and that I "cannot reliably answer". In bold text, nonetheless. Funny, I don't recall ever offering a real answer. In fact, if you read my previous post, I stated that no such answer can be ascertained by you, me, or anyone on this forum as no such answer exists that will be true in every circumstance. How's that for putting words in peoples mouths.

You know, I think that you've got me on a few points in there. I did misremember several posts as yours that actually belonged to other posters far more befitting the insulting names I was calling, and that's just sloppy thinking on my part, and even less justified writing and admonishing.

You are well-spoken and were in fact speaking the same point I was making, and I thanked you for it by misrepresenting and assaulting you for no better reason than that I read in a hurry. You have my apologies, friend.

 

[wewontdie11]

None of the above! My infallible logic is that I'm all of the above and I'm still single, so therefore it is none of those things.

 

[Delicious]

Anyway, all you really did was state that I am male and that I "cannot reliably answer". In bold text, nonetheless. Funny, I don't recall ever offering a real answer. In fact, if you read my previous post, I stated that no such answer can be ascertained by you, me, or anyone on this forum as no such answer exists that will be true in every circumstance. How's that for putting words in peoples mouths.

You know, I think that you've got me on a few points in there. I did misremember several posts as yours that actually belonged to other posters far more befitting the insulting names I was calling, and that's just sloppy thinking on my part, and even less justified writing and admonishing.

You are well-spoken and were in fact speaking the same point I was making, and I thanked you for it by misrepresenting and assaulting you for no better reason than that I read in a hurry. You have my apologies, friend.

No problem, I'd be lying if I said that i've never made the same mistake.

 

[AnGeL.SLayer]

Honestly, I like when a guy can make me laugh. I'd say a litle bit of everything would be the best option, but clearly thats not common. Just make me laugh and show me a good time. Can you tell I'm easily amused? lol


^_^


For the record, I think women only give 'jerks' the time of day because they want to 'save/change' them. It gets a bit complicated....