Poll: If female characters were given an advantage....

[Extragorey]

I would say it's a bit much that they level faster as well... My guess is that everyone would be a female character. And I think already there's too many males who play as female characters.

 

[FFHAuthor]

And to be honest, there have been a LOT of anime that have justified a largely female cast by saying women are better at whatever their plot device is.

That balances female physical superiority with female physical improbability, i.e. eye candy. Sure, I can watch a man beat the stuffing out of a squad of enemy soldiers, or I can watch a woman with breasts the size of my head do the same in an outfit that would be inappropriate for a strip club.
***

But OT, from a gaming perspective, it's simply unbalancing, you can justify it by 'changing the paradigm' or altering the way gamers think or interact in the environment by compelling them to play as female characters when them might normally play as male, but it's just as bad as saying 'all female characters will be inferior to male characters'. You're not accomplishing anything, you're just automatically saying that the human genders cannot ever be equal in anything.

Halo 2 & 3 had the option to play as 'female' characters, whose stats and even body type were the same as male. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, KotOR, or any other RPG did the same, aesthetics, not stats. Any other game which has the differences between genders put them primarily on an aesthetic level.

The only game that jumps to mind (for me, if anyone knows of others, please shout them out) which has actual differences in capabilities for male and female characters is Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, and even then it's a difference that is balanced. I forget the exact differences because it includes differences by species, but there was balance to it. You could go with the 'Zen' approach to character creation, or you could go with a stat based goal of maximizing a gender/species combo specifically for a particular combat/game-play style.

By enforcing 'all females are *blank*' or 'all males are *blank*' it's simply bringing forth stereotypes, right wrong or purple, it's just a stereotype whose motivations might stem from sexism or gender bias, but for male characters or female characters in a game, it's simply wrong.

 

[RandallJohn]

That it's an unbalanced game. What else is there to make of it?

Susan, this is why you're awesome. Props on giving (what I think is) the perfect answer on the first friggin' post.

OT: I'd try it. While I don't like the unbalanced nature of it, there has to be a reason reviewers like it.

 

[Laser Priest]

It's an imbalanced game, hence not as perfect as it's made out to be. I guess I'd play as a female, but I'd no doubt be with the portion of the players "requesting" an update to balance this.

 

[Mikeyfell]

A new game has come out - its the bees knees, reveiwers and players are loving it, both singleplayer and multiplayer. its the hot new game, thats selling in droves...

And the basis of the game is that women are inherently better at whatever form of combat its based around. Whether its a mystical force, or a unique and powerful control system that women inherently adapt to faster and better, women are the primary force in the singleplayer, and to map this across to multiplayer by saying that female characters gain skills/ranks/abilities at a notably faster rate. A character of either gender starts even, and the nominal 'caps' are even, but a female character will gain those ranks and reach that cap faster than a male character. What would you make of this?

This is an interesting idea. The entire game is designed as a big "F-you" to macho bullshit posturing? A game that would alienate all the dipshits who call you "Fag" for playing a female character? Sounds awesome.

But in all seriousness there is a way this could be the "Bees knees" as you described it.
The male and female campaigns have to be completely different.
If you play as the girl you get to storm the base, kick down the door, use flash bangs and automatic weapons, sawed-off shotgun your way down a narrow hallway. The whole shebang.
But if you play the male campaign you're support.
You stay outside the base and use all your high tech mcguffins to keep her informed as to how many bads are in a room or how well armed they are. You'd have a sniper rifle so you'd have to nag her not to barge on ahead until you were in a position to provide covering fire. If things got too heavy you could EMP the base. Turning out all the lights and disabling all the electronic guns. That would also disable communication so you'd have to step it up to make sure you kept up with her pace. In the female campaign you'd get the EMP if you took too much damage, that would switch the focus of the game to stealth and melee.
After the mission the male would get some medic minigame to patch up wounds or whatever.

The characters would have to be solid.
The female seems like the kind of person who's dad really wanted a boy. So ever since she came out of the womb cursed with a vagina her father never showed her any affection or respect no matter how masculine or better than the boys she was. The kind of person who would join the military before she was out of highschool and sign up for the "Experimental super soldier program"(It only seems to work on the female test subjects). Even though she's long since stopped caring about what her father thinks she's been pretending for so long that she's convinced herself that emotions are for girls. So she's emotionally uncomplicated: bad guys = bad, good guys = annoying.
The character model would have to be good too, I'm sick of the super chicks always being built like fucking super models. Give her some god damn muscles.

The male character had more of a normal background. He was really in to hunting as a kid (Just to explain why he's a good shot with a rifle). He's well aware of his physical shortcomings so he joined the military as a medic because he really likes the idea of being a team player. That means he's not too keen about being teamed up with the one woman army chick.
Since he's a more personable guy there could be dialog tree roll playing elements for his campaign. Maybe he studied psychology and can see through her paper thin macho bullshit charade. And he can be nice to try to help her overcome it, or yell to let her know he's not to be trifled with, or just give up and let her walk all over him. The choices would effect her behavior in combat. forcing you to modify your tactics accommodate her behavior.


um...This comment got long. I got a little carried away didn't I?
IF anybody gets a chance to make this game, please do it.

 

[Vindestructable]

As long as you can choose your gender the only result would be a gameworld with a 100% female population

 

[BGH122]

I don't think a lot of third wave 'feminists' understand the word feminist. They seem to think it means 'misandry'.

It ain't feminists, of any "wave," interpreting the word as such. It's the sort of individual who thinks any accusation of sexism, ever, merits the invocation of Godwin's Law.

Not to say that there aren't some female-chauvinist sows out there. But blaming "feminism" being equated with "misandry" on feminists is at best inaccurate and at worst disingenuous.

I agree that such people don't accurately depict what feminism used to be, but people like Jessica Valenti are widely respected feminists who blame everything from the banking collapse to political assassination attempts on supposed negative male traits. I've oft heard the claim that these people aren't real feminists and I'm being dishonest in counting them as such, but when they're widely renowned as feminists, successfully sell feminist books and are invited to write articles on feminist interpretations for The Guardian then it appears that they either are feminists (representative or not), or that feminism is splintered or misunderstood.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

I agree that such people don't accurately depict what feminism used to be, but people like Jessica Valenti are widely respected feminists who blame everything from the banking collapse to political assassination attempts on supposed negative male traits.

I'll admit that I'm not all that familiar with Jessica Valenti; I've only read a smattering of her editorials. And while I'm certainly willing to read up and find out exactly where she says these things, I'm going to say right off that that accusation sounds dubious.

 

[BGH122]

I agree that such people don't accurately depict what feminism used to be, but people like Jessica Valenti are widely respected feminists who blame everything from the banking collapse to political assassination attempts on supposed negative male traits.

I'll admit that I'm not all that familiar with Jessica Valenti; I've only read a smattering of her editorials. And while I'm certainly willing to read up and find out exactly where she says these things, I'm going to say right off that that accusation sounds dubious.

I don't think you know what a strawman is, or if you do you're misusing it: a strawman argument is where one constructs an argument that's irrelevant to the main argument in order to knock it down. The fact that Valenti is both a misandrist and a feminist means that the two are not distinct therefore the argument is valid and in no way a strawman.

 

[Saltyk]

Didn't Final Fantasy Tactics do something similar, but far better balanced? Males had slightly higher Hp and physical attack while females had slightly higher Mp and magical attack. And by slightly higher I mean maybe 5 Hp/Mp and 1 point of Physical/Magical Attack. It made very little difference in the end. You could still use a male mage or a female warrior, and they would still preform admirably. Maybe a female mage was more powerful, but not game breaking.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

I don't think you know what a strawman is, or if you do you're misusing it: a strawman argument is where one constructs an argument that's irrelevant to the main argument in order to knock it down.

No, a strawman is when one misinterprets an argument in order to knock it down. Constructing a completely irrelevant argument is only one possible form.

From what I've read, Valenti has blamed some social ills on culturally "masculine" behaviors. Reading that as "negative male traits" and using it to argue that she's a misandrist is misinterpretation.

The fact that Valenti is both a misandrist and a feminist means that the two are not distinct therefore the argument is valid and in no way a strawman.

Well, here's the thing: I haven't seen much proof that she is a misandrist. Saying that machismo (to use the term perhaps a bit more broadly than usual) is often problematic is really not the same thing as saying that men are inherently problematic.

Didn't Final Fantasy Tactics do something similar, but far better balanced? Males had slightly higher Hp and physical attack while females had slightly higher Mp and magical attack. And by slightly higher I mean maybe 5 Hp/Mp and 1 point of Physical/Magical Attack. It made very little difference in the end. You could still use a male mage or a female warrior, and they would still preform admirably. Maybe a female mage was more powerful, but not game breaking.

Now, see, I think almost everyone on the thread has argued that that's different. There's an effort made to balance it, rather than having one sex be the unequivocally better choice for everything.

 

[zeldagirl]

I don't think you know what a strawman is, or if you do you're misusing it: a strawman argument is where one constructs an argument that's irrelevant to the main argument in order to knock it down. The fact that Valenti is both a misandrist and a feminist means that the two are not distinct therefore the argument is valid and in no way a strawman.

I do have to cut in with this:

"The same social mores that tell young women that they should be good little girls are telling guys to be tough, to quash their feelings, and even to be violent. Their problems are our problems, ladies. Men aren't born to rape and commit violence. Men aren't naturally 'tougher' emotionally. These gendered expectations hurt men like they hurt us."


....

"Feminism can help men too, but only if they're open to it. We can't have a fully successful feminism if we're missing half the population. The thing is, how can we relay the super-fabulous stuff feminism is made of to the men in our lives?

I am by no means an expert on masculinity. There are great people doing amazing work on how sexism hurts men - like academic and masculinity expert Michael Kimmel and organizations like Men Can Stop Rape. I'd highly recommend checking these folks out if you're looking for in-depth information on masculinity.

My thoughs on men and feminism are really just starting to be formed, but it's too important a topic to not get into it. Especially now, in a world where what it means to be "a man" has the potential to damage both men and women. Whether it's a consequence of the way that masculinity is used during wartime, or the way it's presented in pop culture - something just isn't right.

Without dissecting how masculinity standards affect men, we'll never be able to comprehensively address sexism and how it affects women. They're linked like a ************. Besides, imagine how much easier it will be to develop male allies in feminism when they realize that they have something to gain from the movement as well."

That's Jessica Valenti from her book Full Frontal Feminism. I've always gotten the impression that she's always advocated for men in the feminist movement - she does NOT hate them.

 

[CoverYourHead]

Play it as a female at first, switch over to male when I'm bored to give myself a bit more challenge.

Also: As said by everyone; unbalanced and silly.

 

[Kair]

You mean they should receive advantages based only on their gender? It will certainly add some realism to games.

 

[Harbinger_]

A new game has come out - its the bees knees, reveiwers and players are loving it, both singleplayer and multiplayer. its the hot new game, thats selling in droves...

And the basis of the game is that women are inherently better at whatever form of combat its based around. Whether its a mystical force, or a unique and powerful control system that women inherently adapt to faster and better, women are the primary force in the singleplayer, and to map this across to multiplayer by saying that female characters gain skills/ranks/abilities at a notably faster rate. A character of either gender starts even, and the nominal 'caps' are even, but a female character will gain those ranks and reach that cap faster than a male character. What would you make of this?

That would be a game where you would see alot of male gamers with female characters. I also don't think it would happen.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

That's Jessica Valenti from her book Full Frontal Feminism. I've always gotten the impression that she's always advocated for men in the feminist movement - she does NOT hate them.

Thanks for stepping in there. I suspected that my relative unfamiliarity with Ms. Valenti's work might jump up and bite me.

And I also seem to remember an editorial in which she said that the whole "breadwinner" stereotype gives men far too little credit for the ability to be responsible fathers otherwise. That doesn't sound like someone who's got an issue with men. (Just with "traditional" gender roles and stereotypes, and their potential negative effects on everyone.)

 

[BGH122]

I don't think you know what a strawman is, or if you do you're misusing it: a strawman argument is where one constructs an argument that's irrelevant to the main argument in order to knock it down. The fact that Valenti is both a misandrist and a feminist means that the two are not distinct therefore the argument is valid and in no way a strawman.

I do have to cut in with this:

"The same social mores that tell young women that they should be good little girls are telling guys to be tough, to quash their feelings, and even to be violent. Their problems are our problems, ladies. Men aren't born to rape and commit violence. Men aren't naturally 'tougher' emotionally. These gendered expectations hurt men like they hurt us."


....

"Feminism can help men too, but only if they're open to it. We can't have a fully successful feminism if we're missing half the population. The thing is, how can we relay the super-fabulous stuff feminism is made of to the men in our lives?

I am by no means an expert on masculinity. There are great people doing amazing work on how sexism hurts men - like academic and masculinity expert Michael Kimmel and organizations like Men Can Stop Rape. I'd highly recommend checking these folks out if you're looking for in-depth information on masculinity.

My thoughs on men and feminism are really just starting to be formed, but it's too important a topic to not get into it. Especially now, in a world where what it means to be "a man" has the potential to damage both men and women. Whether it's a consequence of the way that masculinity is used during wartime, or the way it's presented in pop culture - something just isn't right.

Without dissecting how masculinity standards affect men, we'll never be able to comprehensively address sexism and how it affects women. They're linked like a ************. Besides, imagine how much easier it will be to develop male allies in feminism when they realize that they have something to gain from the movement as well."

That's Jessica Valenti from her book Full Frontal Feminism. I've always gotten the impression that she's always advocated for men in the feminist movement - she does NOT hate them.

Except yes, it is laden with misandry. Take, for example, her holding the organisation 'Men Can Stop Rape' up as a laudable effort. It is a deeply offensive insinuation that the duty to prevent men raping women somehow lies with non-rapist males more than anyone else and that machismo itself is inextricably tied with rape. It's an 'all men are to blame unless they prove otherwise' assumption. Why should I, a non-rapist male, be more accountable for rapists than a non-rapist female? It's a disgracefully misandric accusation, akin to me saying that all women have a duty to actively stop prostitution or else you're all prostitutes in my book. If you can't see why that's misandric, how lumping all men in as 'the enemy' unless they prove otherwise is anything but pro-equality then I'm not sure what more I can do to convince you.

From what I've read, Valenti has blamed some social ills on culturally "masculine" behaviors. Reading that as "negative male traits" and using it to argue that she's a misandrist is misinterpretation.

It appears to me, from her various rants on The Guardian and The F Word, that she makes the claim that she's not against men, but masculinity. This seems to me to be proposing a system that abhors difference as 'wrong', where if we are not all exactly identical with regards to our interpretations of gender then those who women who are more feminine, those men who are more masculine are 'wrong' and their traits necessarily destructive. Perhaps misandry is an inept title here, I suppose bigot fits better.

 

[Jessta]

that just sounds like it would be unbalanced since females get a bonus in everything, however it could work to say something like... Females get a steadier sight while males can sprint faster or take a couple more shots... although that train of thought comes from the fact that most girls have smaller more dexterous fingers than guys where as guys have higher stamina and ability to take punishment.
No I'm not just being sexist, as someone that takes classes in both and PE I've noticed that the girls run out of energy faster and stop running and are more likely to flinch when a dodge ball or something comes at them, sure its kind of a broad generalization but I find it kind of true. At the same time in art class the girls seem to be more dexterous and are better sewing, painting, drawing, pottery, where as the guys have a tendency to push to hard on the clay breaking the form, or have a little twitch while painting creating a stray line, or push to hard on the pencil making a line which can't be erased.
if they were to give females and advantage they would also have to give males an advantage is what I'm really saying, maybe to show their greater manual dexterity give them better aim and to show mens greater stamina and strength give them additional hit points, or make them faster, or make it so they can sprint longer.