Poll: If your country was invaded, would you join a resistance?

[MetroidNut]

I'm kind of disgruntled with America, but I'm also pretty patriotic, as you may be able to guess by my avatar. I love the country, just not...the incompetency and corruption rampant within its political system. So I imagine I'd resist - I mean, really, I'm too stubborn not to.

Besides, maybe when we take back America from the Reds, we can...uh...set up a functioning democratic system.

Yay.

 

[mdk31]

No, but I might see if I could join up with the invading force, depending on who they were. Hell, I regularly ask Canadians to consider invading us (and by "us" I mean the USA), because we're too immature at this point to govern ourselves, and we could really use someone to kick our asses and make us do the right thing. So, if someone from a country that's got its shit a little more together wants to invade us, I am all for it. And, even if they're from a country that isn't really all to on top of things, yeah, I honestly just don't give enough of a shit to fight for us unless the invaders are genuinely evil.

if you wanna know something funny, the "war gamees" scenario's, every time it comes up to soldier's on foot, usa invading canada, usa always loses, they actually lose territory XD
but full force? realistically, we'd get steamrolled

I'd love to see a source on that. The US would wipe the floor with Canada.

yeah gl w/ that, if your in the usa, it's almost impossible to find source info on 1-war games, 2- anything where the usa loses, and it not being modified. thank god i'm canadian.

You know, there's this wonderful new thing called the internet that doesn't change over national borders. So go ahead and find me a link on this new-fangled internet device. You know, unless you were talking out of your ass.

 

[Rex Fallout]

I would consider the aim of the medical profession is to help people, and if a doctor isn't able to help a patient because that patient doesn't have enough money, that is a bad system.

In Britain, the NHS runs alongside private medical companies. I could go to the hospital and get checked up, but I'd have to wait a few days, or a week or so, before being seen, but I would be seen (Unless its an emergency, then you get treatment immediately. You have to make an appointment if it isn't serious/an emergency)

Along with the NHS, there are health insurers like Bupa. My mum gets a Bupa account from her employer, and with that she, and her immediate family, can get seen within a few days from a specialist.

We have the best of both worlds. If you have the money, you can jump the queue. If you don't, you still get the same treatment.

America's health system is so deeply flawed it's almost hilarious. Not counting Michael Moore's Sicko (you would probably consider him a socialist, something you seem to consider as an insult) there are plenty of documentaries on the failings of the system. America is one of the richest countries on Earth, but it is still 37 on the world rankings for health systems [http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html] as of 2000.

Lastly, socialism is not an inherently bad ideal. Neither is communism. And on the offchance you did not have a heart attack at reading my treasonous words, does the idea of universal fairness sound evil? Does the idea that you could spend your money on things to improve your life, instead of simply prolonging it, sound wrong?

If you did have a heart attack, I hope you have a good insurance plan, and stated all your previous ailments, even all the common colds you've had since you were an infant.

I didnt mean to say that ours was better, I just meant I liked ours more, I don't want the government getting up in my business every time I see a doctor. Our system isnt perfect, far from it, and it could be better, but not a socialist one.

I can't speak about Britain's Medical system, as I know very little about it, and from my experiences people who know little about a subject tend to have the largest opinions, opinions for which they have nothing to back them up.

First off let me make this abundantly clear, Michael Moor is NOT a socialist, he is not a communist, he is A CAPITALIST. Yes thats right the man who made such brilliant socialist films as, "Capitalism a Love Story" is indeed a Capitalist. Care to note how much money he has made and hasn't shared with the people?

Anyways, you are right, Socialism and communism are not inherently evil IF and only if you look at their foundations, foundations of helping free the poor from their binds of economic slavery, these are indeed noble and true ideals, but the way they go about accomplishing them is all wrong. If you trully want to help mankind do this- Better YOUR own life first. Then your family's, then your community's, and then your world. Forcing everyone to be absolutely equal by government rule does not lead to happiness, it leads to censorship, destruction of artists and individuals, and the death of innovation. Don't believe me? Look at China. Universal fairness is great, but I don't want to live in a system where when I work harder I don't get paid extra. A system where if I have a brilliant Idea, I don't prosper from it, the state does, and in that instance, I'll probably be shot by the state for good measure to 'protect the people from my dangerous words'.

I think it is great if people choose to help others, but when you begin forcing them, that isn't called utopia. Thats called SLAVERY.

[How exactly is socialism "forcing" people to do something they dont want to? And no, health care in united states is not better that its in many "socialist" countries. You should learn to accept facts and let go off from that fanatic pro-capitalizm thinking.

Ok, here are the facts.

GREAT MARXIST REVOLUTIONARY 'HEROES':
Joseph Stalin killed upwards around 28 million people all in the name of the state. Many of these people were religous and killed for their religions because Marxism teaches that the only true religion of a marxist state is atheism. People were given no choice in the matter. Their so called, 'great' socialist economy didnt feed the masses, the black markets did. But the government did little to even acknowledge that these black markets existed because in private they would whisper, "These black markets are what are keeping the people alive." When the great purge ended, Christians and other religious individuals were able to come out of hiding, because the nation had little in the area of medical supplies, many times all that doctors could do to help their patients was pray with them. People would go to the government to beg for a larger house and larger rations and the officials would laugh and say- "Why dont you go ask your God for these things?"

Raul and Fidel Castro killed some 30, 000 people- many men and women he fought beside in his revolution, in the name of the state. For the good of the people.

MAO ZEDONG killed at least- and please understand that this is only what we know for sure, the PRC do not want anyone to know exactly how many he killed- 78 MILLION people and is widely regarded as the greatest mass murderer of the 20th century. He killed religous people, not usually Christians, but Buddhists, Hindu's etc. He imprisoned millions more to silence the masses, a blood bath that continues in the nation TO THIS DAY. This nation regurally drags women to hospitals to have abortions because their second child could endanger the nation, and these are abortions as late as 8 months into the pregnancy. Women are also forced to have abortions if they are not married and are pregnant because their child could endanger planned parenting laws in the state- and planned marriage laws as well.

I'm not saying our system is perfect- Because it isn't. I'm just saying I'll trust MYSELF and my own hard work before I'll trust ANY government. Because from what I've seen, they've killed far more people than they've saved.

The capitalist system allows for innovation, creativity, individualism, art, incentive, and more. Capitalism is the reason mankind has gotten this far. Marxism does not allow for that. Marxism makes you work, for no incentive, to feed your brother, who might not even feed you in return. Call me selfish, but I prefer to eat what I have earned, I will not take your hand outs. I will work for what I need, and want.

 

[Rex Fallout]

Well, feel free to keep your medical system as it is. No one is trying to force any changes onto it that affect you, so good for you, you're a happy citizen, and a happy citizen is a good citizen.
I sure as hell prefer how it is over here. Much better for me, and other people who would have died without it. The state saves (Yes, saves, not a spelling mistake) my life, it now has one happy person who will die for it.
Of course, the state also changes, so that makes loyalties a bit weird... like joining Commander Shepard for being paragon, and then Shepard becomes a complete renegade...
Well, as long as other people are saved by the system here, it has my loyalty, and I'll give whatever I can for it. Socialism is the answer, sometimes. Different people have different needs, and over here, this is what we need. Unless you are aristocracy, sitting on top of a bank account that will last until 2100.

Thats the thing, governments change, they never remain loyal to the same group forever, especially in a democracy because the leader and senate/parliment/whatever is constantly changing. It's probably a bit more pronounced in the US, Democrat, Republican, whatever. I prefer to trust myself over any government mongrel.

Oh, and thank you for letting me keep my economic system as is. I hope you enjoy your, err umm, (never given a marxist a compliment before give me a sec) .... awesome marxist, altruistic system. For the people! (See I managed to do it! Not my best compliment of course but definately not too bad right? BTW I'm not being sarcastic, I was honestly trying to be nice.)

yeah gl w/ that, if your in the usa, it's almost impossible to find source info on 1-war games, 2- anything where the usa loses, and it not being modified. thank god i'm canadian.

Homefront? Red Dawn? Apocalypse Now? There are three AMERICAN made fictions about America getting its ass handed to them that I just named off the top of my head. And sadly America would defeat Canada Probably, if only by numbers. It would be like if we went to war with China, they have like 3 times our population, wouldnt be pretty. But you enjoy Canada, until we ineviably annex you and mexico and become the United States of North America. It's gonna happen, just you wait.

 

[Dawns Gate]

I would grab my great grand-fathers Lee Enfield and my crossbow that we use for hunting and plenty of ammo, hide out in the wood, use the crossbow for hunting animals and the rifle for hunting the enemy and attack specific supply convoys (food, water, fuel, etc) and anyone that I have to kill I would mutilate their bodies and place them in areas they would be seen by the enemy and anyone that I manage to capture I would interrogate, and send letters to their home country or if I can, their family saying how I mutilated them and such, so their people would protest to the government against the war so they would be forced to pull out, much like the U.S.A in vietnam.

If I got killed , they would just be making a martyr out of me.

 

[jdun]

4. Fast food, Wal-Mart, Disney, etc will be imported to their country.
5. Their culture will not change.

Those two points are mutually exclusive. If you have 4, that will effect the culture of the country.

OT: I'd probably resist. I'd be shite at it, but I'd make life difficult with the invaders. Not sure how, but I'd find a way.

I don't see how culture will change? It's not like Japan, Russia, China, etc culture changed because they are importing America product. Did American culture changed when we buy Chinese made goods? No. Did American culture change when we import Japanese made goods? No.

 

[Averant]

Yes, I'd join the resistance. But only to save my books. Those damn book burning nazis... Oh, wait, that was 70 years ago.

Um...

I'd still join to protect my books. I imagine I could grab a rifle, go hide in some snowy place, be a snow sniper. It'd be fun. Or make some IEDs. A few assassinations here and there.

But mostly I'd protect my books.

 

[jdun]

SNIP.

It depends on who is the invader. If the USA invade a country that is ruled by a tyrant than the majority of the population including their military won't put up much of a fight. That because they know
1. The new government that will be form will be democratic.
2. Those that got brutalized by the tyrant will be in power.
3. No need to die for the tyrant
4. Fast food, Wal-Mart, Disney, etc will be imported to their country.
5. Their culture will not change.

However if a tyrant invading another country this will mostly happen.
1. Slave
2. Genocide

Unless you're blind you do not need perfect vision to be a good shooter. It help but not necessary because most engagement will be 100 yards or less.

Mm, well, I'm about to tread into territory I don't know many facts on and I may very well be wrong but...

isn't that what America did with Iraq? But the people are resisting. There are a lot of insurgents and the people there aren't being particularly helpful, I've heard, and in fact seem to really want us gone. There was a study that showed that over half the population looked favorably on Americas military actually being attacked.

I do agree that, eventually, globalization will lead to 'McDonald Democracy' all around. But if they were invaded their country (and this can be any country America would invade) would change. It'd be impossible not to. America would try to westernize them. Maybe not intentionally, but you can't bring in big businesses without killing the smaller ones that were a huge part of the culture. And maybe if that tyrant fell out of power, maybe that just means other corrupt groups would try to fill in that spot? I think that's what the insurgents are trying to do.

Feel free to correct me if I am painfully off target!

Let me put it this. When we invaded Iraq in the second Gulf War, Iraq had around 30 million population at that time. Allied invading force was 300,000. 30 millions vs 300,000 is in favor of Iraq dictator government right? But what happen? They lost because those 30 millions didn't want to die for the tyrant. They knew what's going to happen. They will be in power after all said and done.

Yes supporters of the tyrant resisted and with the help of foreign fighters they did put up a fight. However at the end of the day they were turn in by Iraqi for slaughter.

 

[jdun]

Gosh, I find it interesting how many people wouldn't defend their country because of personal issues with the government. I just don't think anyone who would invade a country (most likely by force) would be better than whatever government the country previously had.

Usually, I think, because invaders never really care nearly as much about the countries they conquered as they do about their own. It's usually all about the resources.

But, on point.
I'm fairly athletic but wouldn't make a good soldier. Poor eyesight makes me a poor shot. But I would happily be a courier, a tunneler of goods, and maybe even let my house be a safe haven for other resistant members.
There would be risks involved but risks I would, hopefully!, be brave enough to take.

It depends on who is the invader. If the USA invade a country that is ruled by a tyrant than the majority of the population including their military won't put up much of a fight. That because they know
1. The new government that will be form will be democratic.
2. Those that got brutalized by the tyrant will be in power.
3. No need to die for the tyrant
4. Fast food, Wal-Mart, Disney, etc will be imported to their country.
5. Their culture will not change.

However if a tyrant invading another country this will mostly happen.
1. Slave
2. Genocide

Unless you're blind you do not need perfect vision to be a good shooter. It help but not necessary because most engagement will be 100 yards or less.

you're joking, right? the US NOT changing another country's culture? they do that even without starting a war, and I seriously doubt sending a few thousand soldiers is going to improve that. your view on the matter seems really naive and simplistic...

Tell me did the culture of the USA change when we imported Japanese goods? Do we speak Japanese?

Did the culture of the USA changed when we imported Chinese products? Almost every product that we bought comes from China. Did American culture changed? Do American speak Chinese?

Importing and exporting goods does not change cultures.

 

[Terminate421]

Yes, because it'd be fun pretending I am in John Connor's army.

That'd be until I was shot in the face.

 

[Aur0ra145]

We don't have the second amendment for nothing!

 

[Estelindis]

I wouldn't go looking for foolish ways to get myself killed - I don't know if I'd join a violent resistance or simply help in a non-violent way - but yes, I would take part. It would be my duty. There has to be a point where you stand up for yourself and your people. If you're not willing to defend the lives of the innocent, what's the point in living?

 

[Jim Stacey]

I don't believe that I would. Instead, I would make things a hell of a lot more interesting and lead a revolution right in the thick of it.

On a (slightly) more realistic note, I suppose it would depend on who's invading and their way of running things / relationship with their people.

 

[Baradiel]

I would consider the aim of the medical profession is to help people, and if a doctor isn't able to help a patient because that patient doesn't have enough money, that is a bad system.

In Britain, the NHS runs alongside private medical companies. I could go to the hospital and get checked up, but I'd have to wait a few days, or a week or so, before being seen, but I would be seen (Unless its an emergency, then you get treatment immediately. You have to make an appointment if it isn't serious/an emergency)

Along with the NHS, there are health insurers like Bupa. My mum gets a Bupa account from her employer, and with that she, and her immediate family, can get seen within a few days from a specialist.

We have the best of both worlds. If you have the money, you can jump the queue. If you don't, you still get the same treatment.

America's health system is so deeply flawed it's almost hilarious. Not counting Michael Moore's Sicko (you would probably consider him a socialist, something you seem to consider as an insult) there are plenty of documentaries on the failings of the system. America is one of the richest countries on Earth, but it is still 37 on the world rankings for health systems [http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html] as of 2000.

Lastly, socialism is not an inherently bad ideal. Neither is communism. And on the offchance you did not have a heart attack at reading my treasonous words, does the idea of universal fairness sound evil? Does the idea that you could spend your money on things to improve your life, instead of simply prolonging it, sound wrong?

If you did have a heart attack, I hope you have a good insurance plan, and stated all your previous ailments, even all the common colds you've had since you were an infant.

I didnt mean to say that ours was better, I just meant I liked ours more, I don't want the government getting up in my business every time I see a doctor. Our system isnt perfect, far from it, and it could be better, but not a socialist one.

I can't speak about Britain's Medical system, as I know very little about it, and from my experiences people who know little about a subject tend to have the largest opinions, opinions for which they have nothing to back them up.

First off let me make this abundantly clear, Michael Moor is NOT a socialist, he is not a communist, he is A CAPITALIST. Yes thats right the man who made such brilliant socialist films as, "Capitalism a Love Story" is indeed a Capitalist. Care to note how much money he has made and hasn't shared with the people?

Anyways, you are right, Socialism and communism are not inherently evil IF and only if you look at their foundations, foundations of helping free the poor from their binds of economic slavery, these are indeed noble and true ideals, but the way they go about accomplishing them is all wrong. If you trully want to help mankind do this- Better YOUR own life first. Then your family's, then your community's, and then your world. Forcing everyone to be absolutely equal by government rule does not lead to happiness, it leads to censorship, destruction of artists and individuals, and the death of innovation. Don't believe me? Look at China. Universal fairness is great, but I don't want to live in a system where when I work harder I don't get paid extra. A system where if I have a brilliant Idea, I don't prosper from it, the state does, and in that instance, I'll probably be shot by the state for good measure to 'protect the people from my dangerous words'.

I think it is great if people choose to help others, but when you begin forcing them, that isn't called utopia. Thats called SLAVERY.

[How exactly is socialism "forcing" people to do something they dont want to? And no, health care in united states is not better that its in many "socialist" countries. You should learn to accept facts and let go off from that fanatic pro-capitalizm thinking.

Ok, here are the facts.

GREAT MARXIST REVOLUTIONARY 'HEROES':
Joseph Stalin killed upwards around 28 million people all in the name of the state. Many of these people were religous and killed for their religions because Marxism teaches that the only true religion of a marxist state is atheism. People were given no choice in the matter. Their so called, 'great' socialist economy didnt feed the masses, the black markets did. But the government did little to even acknowledge that these black markets existed because in private they would whisper, "These black markets are what are keeping the people alive." When the great purge ended, Christians and other religious individuals were able to come out of hiding, because the nation had little in the area of medical supplies, many times all that doctors could do to help their patients was pray with them. People would go to the government to beg for a larger house and larger rations and the officials would laugh and say- "Why dont you go ask your God for these things?"

Raul and Fidel Castro killed some 30, 000 people- many men and women he fought beside in his revolution, in the name of the state. For the good of the people.

MAO ZEDONG killed at least- and please understand that this is only what we know for sure, the PRC do not want anyone to know exactly how many he killed- 78 MILLION people and is widely regarded as the greatest mass murderer of the 20th century. He killed religous people, not usually Christians, but Buddhists, Hindu's etc. He imprisoned millions more to silence the masses, a blood bath that continues in the nation TO THIS DAY. This nation regurally drags women to hospitals to have abortions because their second child could endanger the nation, and these are abortions as late as 8 months into the pregnancy. Women are also forced to have abortions if they are not married and are pregnant because their child could endanger planned parenting laws in the state- and planned marriage laws as well.

I'm not saying our system is perfect- Because it isn't. I'm just saying I'll trust MYSELF and my own hard work before I'll trust ANY government. Because from what I've seen, they've killed far more people than they've saved.

The capitalist system allows for innovation, creativity, individualism, art, incentive, and more. Capitalism is the reason mankind has gotten this far. Marxism does not allow for that. Marxism makes you work, for no incentive, to feed your brother, who might not even feed you in return. Call me selfish, but I prefer to eat what I have earned, I will not take your hand outs. I will work for what I need, and want.

First off, you can't site "communist" countries as examples of the evils of communism, simply because they weren't communist/aren't communist.

Communism is the ideal. It would require all of humanity to be utterly selfless and working for the greater good. The problem with it is that humans are inherently selfish.

I don't have time to counter argue every point you made, but I will ask you to take a look at some of the fascist/right-wing leaders who did much worse atrocities. Before Castro there was Batista, an even worse tryant. Before Mao there was Chaing Kai Shek, who ruled with an iron fist and executed countless Chinese. He may not have been quite as ruthless as Mao, but at least Mao had committed those atrocities in an attempt to improve the lives of the people (that were left).

Stalin... Well, it depends how far you want to consider him responsible for the purges. The Soviet bureaucracy was an unwieldy force. Its unlikely that Stalin personally ordered the deaths/imprisonments of every person. Its more like that those pointed out pointed to others in an attempt to get laxer punishments, and so did they, and so on. He was a terrible person who committed terrible crimes, but there was much more to it than that.

 

[Floppertje]

Gosh, I find it interesting how many people wouldn't defend their country because of personal issues with the government. I just don't think anyone who would invade a country (most likely by force) would be better than whatever government the country previously had.

Usually, I think, because invaders never really care nearly as much about the countries they conquered as they do about their own. It's usually all about the resources.

But, on point.
I'm fairly athletic but wouldn't make a good soldier. Poor eyesight makes me a poor shot. But I would happily be a courier, a tunneler of goods, and maybe even let my house be a safe haven for other resistant members.
There would be risks involved but risks I would, hopefully!, be brave enough to take.

It depends on who is the invader. If the USA invade a country that is ruled by a tyrant than the majority of the population including their military won't put up much of a fight. That because they know
1. The new government that will be form will be democratic.
2. Those that got brutalized by the tyrant will be in power.
3. No need to die for the tyrant
4. Fast food, Wal-Mart, Disney, etc will be imported to their country.
5. Their culture will not change.

However if a tyrant invading another country this will mostly happen.
1. Slave
2. Genocide

Unless you're blind you do not need perfect vision to be a good shooter. It help but not necessary because most engagement will be 100 yards or less.

you're joking, right? the US NOT changing another country's culture? they do that even without starting a war, and I seriously doubt sending a few thousand soldiers is going to improve that. your view on the matter seems really naive and simplistic...

Tell me did the culture of the USA change when we imported Japanese goods? Do we speak Japanese?

Did the culture of the USA changed when we imported Chinese products? Almost every product that we bought comes from China. Did American culture changed? Do American speak Chinese?

Importing and exporting goods does not change cultures.

culture isn't synonymous with language! and yes, it DID! ever heard of chinatown? how about all those people obsessed with anime and manga? that's Japanese culture right there. What about Final Fantasy? Nintendo or Sony, anyone? those are Japanese companies. and outsourcing industries to China doesn't change American culture, it changes Chinese culture. and maybe you don't speak Chinese, but your English isn't exactly good either.

 

[Adam Galli]

I wouldn't join the resistance, I AM THE RESISTANCE! HOOAH!... Hell yeah I would fight if my country was invaded, it's not even a question for me.

 

[trophykiller]

Yes. First, my country would likely laugh it's rear end off at an invasion on the united states(may I introduce you to a magical thing called a "history book"), then teach you the same lesson we taught Britain, Mexico, Germany, Japan, Germany again, and Al Queida(eat it, Osama).

Britain didn't invade America, a British colony rebelled and became America.
Mexico didn't invade America, America invaded Mexico.
Germany didn't invade America, America declared war on Germany.
Japan invaded a couple of American colonies, they didn't invade America.
Again, Germany didn't invade America, America declared war on Germany.
al-Qaeda didn't invade America (seriously, the number of people who seem to think al-Qaeda is basically the real life version of Cobra), a group of people trained by al-Qaeda flew some planes into a building.

You might want to reread that history book.

Sorry, I meant attacked, not invaded. I apologize for the misunderstanding(al-queda could never annex America, nor would they know what to if they did)

Yes, you didn't *attack* us in the traditional sense, but you did act like a bunch of jerks in how you ran things. Yes, I'm aware America was certainly not the only ones who rebelled, and certainly not the only ones wronged.

Mexico and America have never gotten along, alot of it due to land disputes. I was actually making a reference to the WWI telegram(I can never remember it's exact name), though, not the alamo or anything like that.

Germany did attack us, both in their destroying of American passenger ships carrying british arms, and in the telegram sent to Mexico.

With Japan, have you ever heard of pearl harbor? That's an attack if ever I saw it, and there's evidence Germany knew that it was going to happen.

Al-queda refers to all the people in it, not just the higher-ups. Much like how German soldiers are still Germans.

 

[zHellas]

Big-Snip

You qouted the wrong person.

I think you screwed up the quote from trophykiller, so you ended up quoting me.