Poll: Injustice of the Permaban

[Lieju]

The warning system is alright. The rules suck balls though. Low content? What does that shit even mean? Other places don't got that rule.

A lot of sites have rules like that. I hang out on forums with much stricter rules for what is 'low content', and where posting meme-pictures would be worthy of warning. Depends on the forum, some people just want more relevant discussion.
While some are ok with posts that are nothing but memes and smilies.

I think consistency is far more important, and that you know what the rules are.

 

[incal11]

None of us are really fans of filtering conversations of any sort

I have few ideas that would make you eat your words, but that's great.

The problems I see with the current ban system is first that frequent posters with a mild mean streak, or even just a bad month, will always end up being banned permanently for what appear to be nothing much. They post left and right and, even though they should in theory, they don't always think about watching their health bar going up. Since they post so much sometimes they may get up to 4 or 5 warnings in quick succession. There's no avoiding a ban in these conditions. Second, the ban is often permanent, that is simply not cool for those who are just not used at being polite online.

Here are my suggestions, in the impossibly remote case they could be considered by the site's staff:
Make it so there is a temporary grace period after each time a warning is given. This way there would be no surprise perma-ban for those frequent posters. Inside a certain period of time, after the first warning, instead of more strikes they could get an automated message asking them to be nicer and/or make more meaningful posts. I know this could be abused, but please read the rest.

If they keep getting warnings the ban still should not be permanent. A few months are enough, with another automated message on the importance of being nice and productive (the only two rules that truly matter in most forums). The help of a professional psychologist might be needed to word that message in a way that make people say "yeah, I've been dumb". Only the second time they get too many warnings should it be a perma-ban. Because then, only then, it is clear that they cannot or are plain unwilling to learn. The automation should make it quite easy on the mods too, while making the bans and perma-bans more fair.

Those with obvious mental problem, or who insist on abusing the system and ban jumping to be as much of a jerk as possible should be easy to single out and process separately. Clear cut cases like dead baby pics or death threats can be met with instant perma-ban, but never anything less than that.

The only perma-ban that is fair is the one reserved for the obviously insane and the truly immature.

quote

I have to know, from which anime is your avatar from?

 

[Zeke63]

lol no one will ever lament astrosmash, after reading through this thread combined with my own experience gotta say escapist is fair and dissent is tolerated as long as its not reduced to personal attack. I got a couple warning but thats because i didnt understand the rules about short posts initiall, and the other because i got mad at a seemingly reductive/patriarchal op about feminism and so directly attacked the op. know better now and just got a slap on the wrist. its a good learning system and 8 warnigns is more than enough

 

[Mr.Pandah]

She didn't really imply it...so much as flat out say it. Not entirely sure why everyone loved her so much.

Nice user who didn't mince their words + High post count + Funny posts = Popular and loved user.
That's how it works around here.

I agree that those make you popular, but she only had a high post count in my opinion, but you know what they say about opinions...

Back to the shadows I go now.

 

[Legion]

If that were really true, then your post would be enough to get a warning, wouldn't it?

After all, you are basically saying the staff here have never once given somebody a suspension or ban that they deserved. Or in other words, you do not believe that they are moderating the forums properly.

The fact that you are allowed to say that without getting in trouble shows your opinion to be inaccurate.

Uh, no.
I'm saying that I have never seen a justified ban or suspension, not that one has never taken place, I'll thank you not to misquote me.
As for whether I receive a warning or ban, that remains to be seen, I posted it less than an hour ago after all, so that's hardly an answered question at this point.

If you'd like me to be completely accurate I can change that sentence:

"After all, you are basically saying that you have never seen the staff here give somebody a suspension or ban that they deserved. Or in other words, you do not believe that they are moderating the forums properly based upon your personal experience."

The overall message is still the same. It doesn't change the fact that you have openly criticised the moderation on this website, but have not received any punishment.

You won't either, as you haven't broken any rules in that post. The mods are not out to "get" people. If you'd criticised the mods as people that'd be a different matter entirely.

 

[SecondPrize]

I don't think so. I'm a little confused when I see that someone was banned, go to the post that did it and see a perfectly normal post, except that it was obviously meant for a different thread. This happened to me once, replied to a thread and my reply went somewhere else. I've seen a couple bans recently for what seemed like this, but I don't know the whole story, of course.
Overall though, moderation is fine. Their forum, their rules. If you can't play by them then don't be surprised when you can't play. I even like the low content post rule, though for threads which ask simple questions like "what's your favorite...?" you get a lot of replies with unnecessary padding in mind of that rule. The amount of actual content in replies is always the same as if you said one word, but apparently more words = more content. In any other situation, it's nice that people feel compelled to explain their views with more than a couple words.
I would like to ***** at pirates more though, and those threads never last.

 

[Easton Dark]

But it's at the end of a discussion chain, which is different from simply posting an image macro and 2 words on their own.

And you seem to be the source of it all every time! *shakes fist*

(I get it now, but I still don't like it in many situations)

*cackles and runs away*

Get back here, with your infinite posts you must have infinite knowledge!

Mod burnout is a tough issue, it's really easy to drift away from the fun parts of a community once you start helping with its maintenance.

That's a good point. And since some people can continue a conversation or be rude without quoting anyone which gives mods not a lot of context, I guess the only solution is to increase the mod number, which appears to be happening, so great, less stress for everyone.

 

[Legion]

I guess the only solution is to increase the mod number, which appears to be happening, so great, less stress for everyone.

Three mods stepped down, and three more were added, so the numbers are the same.

 

[Something Amyss]

I guess it was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back type of deal...

Well, I meant it didn't seem like an infraction. But I guess, perhaps.

I'm not going to take any chances by testing it.

More like "Daring to have the AUDACITY to suggest that people who didn't understand professionalism may have never been in a position where it was required of them", but, you know. Six of one, half a dozen to the other.

And that's why I don't get it.

(Personally I would set up a system to ban for a set period of time for each infraction that carries over as bonuses to future bans (First ban is one week, second is a one week ban again but you get a second week, etc etc) but hey, I'm not a programmer and I don't own a forum, it's probably harder to do than it sounds.)

Others have pointed out we have this, but what amazes me is how often I've seen this sort of thing espoused on here (in the past, not specifically this thread). It begs the question: does nobody read the Terms/posting guidelines/etc on here?

It'd be kind of like a group of Americans coming forth and expressing the desire to change America into some sort of representative democracy.

No offense intended.

Why did you have him blocked? I'd never seen you and he really disagree strongly on things.

Agreeing with someone doesn't necessarily mean you like someone. Or agree with how they say it. And so on.

 

[Thamian]

One of the things I've noticed is that occasionally the mods come down on people for technicalities or minor infractions.

For example, part of what's started this current rash of convos about moderation was Vault101 getting permabanned. I actually investigated and found the bost which resulted in that ban. I have yet however to figure out quite what was wrong with that post. Yeah, maybe a touch childish (and lets be honest, if you look you'll find lots of those sorts of posts kicking around without the mods slamming them for it), but the topic was answered, nobody was being actively gotten at (or atleast, not that I could see), hell there wasn't even any swearing.

Yet the banhammer was reached for. Seems more than a little extreme. Jack in the sheer post count of Vault101, and the point about the warning limits being somewhat absurd comes into play. Rather thoroughly.

 

[Teshi]

Permabans are fine, and the eight-strike system is fine.

It's dumb as hell that a post consisting of something like "I agree!" (which would be low content) gets moderated the same way and with the same severity as something truly vicious, though.

 

[Edguy]

I think it's very important that the people who are appointed as mods are socially intelligent enough to spot sarcasm and understand the intent behind potentially offensive posts etc.

A lot of people seem to struggle with this on the internet..

 

[CyberAkuma]

This is mostly true, but dude, you've got 811 posts after seven years. Most people blow through that many in their first six months, which makes not getting a warning in that time a lot less impressive

Well, If You Don't Have Anything Nice to Say...

But seriously, the people who blow through that many posts in the time span of 6 months tend to write a lot of garbage and short posts, simple replies and crap like that. My posts are usually long (sometimes too long) and well thought-out - at least that's what I like to think.

But my point still validates the argument. It's not difficult avoiding getting a single warning. Some people in this forum tend to be complete dicks when someone or something differs to their opinion.

And also, while people complain that the level of standard when it comes to maturity in this forum is declining - please - take a moment and look at the forums/message boards belonging GameTrailers.com or GameFAQs or IGN or GameSpot.
After all these years I thought it was impossible for them to get any worse and well... there ya go... it always seems to surprise me of how utterly horrible it gets year after year.
No seriously - it's worse than YouTube comments by now.

People on those forums tend to be heavily opinionated and don't give a rats ass about you or anyone elses opinion.
They just post opinionated bullcrap for the sake of venting their opinions and never actually care to listen nor respond to other peoples replies.

The level on The Escapist Forums in comparison to those forums; is pure heaven.
I do not see any injustice in the permaban system here and I've been here for a considerable time.

Then again you might be asking the wrong guy since I never even actually got a single warning.

 

[Legion]

Once again, I'm saying that I have never seen a justified ban or suspension, not that one has never taken place, I'll thank you not to misquote me again, especially regarding the same statement.

I did not. Read what I wrote:

"After all, you are basically saying that you have never seen the staff here give somebody a suspension or ban that they deserved. Or in other words, you do not believe that they are moderating the forums properly based upon your personal experience."

I've been popping into this forum fairly regularly and I've not *once* seen a justified ban or suspension, while it's obviously anecdotal, it's quite telling.

Which is exactly what you just damn well said. If it comes to the point where you keep trying to claim that I am lying, when I am quoting you almost verbatim, then I am going to start assuming that you are deliberately trying to provoke an argument.

 

[Mr.PlanetEater]

Heck, pre-2011 join dates are getting rare. Kind of says something about the rate at which people are banned, doesn't it?

Not visiting =/= banned.

There are many "older" members who simply do not post any more, either because they got fed up with the level of drama, or moved onto other things. It's not like getting in trouble is the only "way out".

Or they just never posted much to begin with, like me! God that sounded a lot less depressing in my head. ;-;

On topic, I don't think the eight strike warning system is terrible. Do I think it's perfect? No, not really because nothing is ever perfect; especially when it comes to moderation on a site this large and diverse.

 

[Odbarc]

It's the little things that get you. Mostly it's the "posts must have content" kind of replies that I don't ALWAYS make when the OP asks a yes or no question and I only give a yes or no answer.

But on the other hand, IF you read everyone's post, it certain regards the site to having content rather than player-influenced spam.
I may not like it but I'm not against it either.

 

[Spearmaster]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the moderation/discipline system but nothing is perfect. Like with any rule/law it can yield results which in some cases some people see as negative but its for the greater good of all people on the forum.
I think that in some cases its to harsh and in other cases its not harsh enough but in 8 chances a user should be able to get a feel for what is OK and what is not, as long as the rules are applied uniformly...(clears throat)

 

[RedDeadFred]

I like the system but I don't think you should be able to be banned for minor things, even if they are adding up. I think they should cause suspensions only. Permabans should be reserved for truly negative behaviour.

 

[evilneko]

Daystar is correct. We can't wrath posts for low content if they're part of a quote chain.

Two people are having a conversation, and, like it or not, that still counts towards the discussion.

It happens in R&P.

Hopefully not anymore, with CopperZen taking over modding duties there. I faded out of R&P in part because of the poor quality of moderation.

We'll see.