Poll: is a gun a good tool to have in a household?

[mike1921]

Yeah, that sentence of mine should have had a "not" in the middle of it. Fairly epic typo, really. Sorry bout that.

Fairly? Majorly epic. and what made it more epic is that's an opinion a lot of people actually support..

It's all fun and games until someone goes mental and kills a score of schoolkids.

not worth a mention, too uncommon

Besides, Guns aren't the only lethal weapons in the universe. You could kill someone with a knife just as easily if you're close enough. Hell, if you're strong a bat will suffice to kill people. I'd rather take my chances with a man running around with a baseball bat through a crowd I'm in than a guy holding a fully automatic weapon but they'll still fatally injure people.

 

[sheic99]

Last I checked the odds of someone accidentally shooting one of their housemates compared to the chance of them shooting an invading criminal was somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 to 1.

seem like pritty good odds to me aha

Where did you check?

In a book about four years ago. Unfortunately I can't remember the book or author (it was pretty unremarkable except for that part.) I remember the author having a liberal slant.

There's also a statistic floating around that you're something like 1000 times more likely to be accidentally killed by doctor error than by a gun. And much, much, much more likely to be killed in a car accident.

I know, let's outlaw guns, doctors, AND cars!!

The truth is that the statistics don't tell the entire story. I give you at least one example of a gun being used for deterrence without shots ever being fired, and certainly no one was killed: my uncle once heard an intruder downstairs in his farmhouse, so he grabbed his shotgun and cocked it. The sound is very distinctive. The intruder got out of there in a hurry.

First of all cars have a purpose other than killing people unlike guns. Second doctors also save more lives than guns and only kill people when are not doing their job properly. Third if the sound of shotgun scares people, I would recommend investing in a tape recorder and a taser.

A taser only has a range of your arm. The kind that shoots has a range of 15ft, but they take a long time to reload. If there is more than one person or you miss, you are completly fucked. But with a shotgun you would still stand a chance because they could see it.

 

[ZonerZ]

of course a gun's a great household tool! What else would I use if I want to go on a rampage? A garden house? A puppy? (Actually, I kindof like the puppy idea. If I swing it hard enough, that's two birds with one stone.)

 

[Hawks_Pride]

of course a gun's a great household tool! What else would I use if I want to go on a rampage? A garden house? A puppy? (Actually, I kindof like the puppy idea. If I swing it hard enough, that's two birds with one stone.)

I'm reminded of George Carlin's thoughts on 'the perfect crime:' "You pick one guy up by his ankles... and you kill another guy WITH HIM."

 

[Midnight Voyager]

Hm. I have lots of poisonous snakes around this area. My dad is a surveyor, which requires him to go into places with even more poisonous snakes. We've come into contact with rabid dogs.

Yes, Shoo.

 

[Trilby]

Yeah, that sentence of mine should have had a "not" in the middle of it. Fairly epic typo, really. Sorry bout that.

Fairly? Majorly epic. and what made it more epic is that's an opinion a lot of people actually support..

It's all fun and games until someone goes mental and kills a score of schoolkids.

And if the school has a cop with a gun they'll probably only kill 4.

Besides, Guns aren't the only lethal weapons in the universe. You could kill someone with a knife just as easily if you're close enough. Hell, if you're strong a bat will suffice to kill people. I'd rather take my chances with a man running around with a baseball bat through a crowd I'm in than a guy holding a fully automatic weapon but they'll still fatally injure people.

Yeah. Well, that's cleared up now.

And if he didn't have a gun he probably wouldn't have killed any. Of course you can kill people with knives, but it's a lot harder - apart from anything else, it's a much more physical crime, and so someone who is teetering on the brink of a breakdown is going to have to be pushed further to stab someone than to shoot them. It comes down to the physicality of a crime. The shooter will always remain more detached from the killing than if he had stabbed someone.

Also, what kind of argument is that? Justifying guns by the legality of guns? Perfect.

Also:

ZonerZ:
of course a gun's a great household tool! What else would I use if I want to go on a rampage? A garden house? A puppy? (Actually, I kindof like the puppy idea. If I swing it hard enough, that's two birds with one stone.)

I'm reminded of George Carlin's thoughts on 'the perfect crime:' "You pick one guy up by his ankles... and you kill another guy WITH HIM."

I'm reminded of Roald Dahl: you kill your husband with a leg of frozen lamb, put it in the oven and serve it up to the police who come to investigate.

 

[mike1921]

Also, what kind of argument is that? Justifying guns by the legality of guns? Perfect.

Who you talking to? I never justify anything with it's legality or unjustify it with it's ban.

And if he didn't have a gun he probably wouldn't have killed any.

In what planet? In my school if you don't come in at exactly the right 3 minute window that opens every hour you're going to be lucky to kill more than 3, and you'll still get the same people no matter what you're holding, unless you have an RPG or a bomb.

Of course you can kill people with knives, but it's a lot harder -

Sorta. Depending on the knife. Give me a cleaver and make me insane enough and I'll be able to kill anyone you want. I cut my finger just by accidentally touching the sharp part, I'd find it offensive if you said I'm incapable of killing someone with that thing.

apart from anything else, it's a much more physical crime, and so someone who is teetering on the brink of a breakdown is going to have to be pushed further to stab someone than to shoot them

True, but that goes the same for someone who's protecting his or her family. Also, why should we base our restrictions on what sane people can do on what insane people will just have to break less laws to do?

 

[Trilby]

Who you talking to? I never justify anything with it's legality or unjustify it with it's ban.

I was referring to the remark that you made regarding: "And if the school has a cop with a gun they'll probably only kill 4." I see that you've edited your post now, so I'll drop that point.

And the rest of your post: I'm not talking about how a planned massacre of schoolchildren would take place. I'm talking about a psychotic person on the verge of a homicidal breakdown. When I say that it's harder to kill someone with a knife, I mean that it's harder mentally (and physically, tbh, but that's not the point at issue). Physicality of the crime. It makes a difference, according to the police.

Ah, but someone protecting their family has a right, indeed a responsibility to do so. But then a person also has a responsibility to do as little harm as possible to the assailant while doing so.

And almost by definition, all laws are based on what people, insane or otherwise, would or would not do.

Right, I'll leave you the night for now.

 

[Stringytank]

From a political standpoint, I'd have to say that citizens having guns are one of the only thing that stops the government from trying to impose martial law.

 

[MawnLower]

When you tell kids to don't do something, they tend to do so, so just keep it a nice little secret and hide it somewhere real good.

 

[sleekie]

I'm English. I've been taking a casual interest in gun control recently as part of a general increased interest in civil liberties in general. There are a lot of dumb arguments on both sides of this particular debate, but I find that all the good ones are on the anti-gun-control side.

The pro-gun-control side also seems terribly fond of bad statistics, misused statistics, and fearmongering. I'm not saying that this is not the exact tactics being used by their opposition at times.....but they seem far, far more guilty of it. That in itself undermines their credibility.

Tossing all that aside, we're pretty much left with the abstracts of 'should' and 'ought', two words which instantly ring alarm bells in my mind these days. They are frequently attached to an attempt to manipulate the listening with subjective morals/opinions instead of facts. If you're going to take away people's right to defend themselves, the very least that is required is that you have an equally effective alternative. You don't.

 

[Northery]

Blasphemy every person should have a machine gun in their house. Yes, children will be curious at first why there is a SAW in the closet but if you explain to them the true purpose of a gun there wouldn't as many gun crimes.

 

[mike1921]

I was referring to the remark that you made regarding: "And if the school has a cop with a gun they'll probably only kill 4." I see that you've edited your post now, so I'll drop that point.

I don't see how I was defending something by it's legiality. I was just saying if you have a school cop a school shooting won't kill too many people.

Ah, but someone protecting their family has a right, indeed a responsibility to do so. But then a person also has a responsibility to do as little harm as possible to the assailant while doing so.

Bull.

And almost by definition, all laws are based on what people, insane or otherwise, would or would not do.

True, I guess. But to me it's also based on what's actually bad (or should be). You having a gun is not bad. No one is hurt. You shooting 15 children with it is (most of the time).
So, having a gun should be legal and killing 15 children shouldn't be.....well, murdering them. I think self-defense is valid against anyone over the age of 10 and you're a child until you're 18 so there are 7 years.

 

[SkinnySlim]

You gotta love these people who think they are capable of pulling a weapon and "disarming" some situation like Dirty Harry. Look, it's going to be your first time pulling a weapon with the intent of doing harm, but you can bet that that criminal is not new at this gig, and is probably far more familiar with a firearm than you. I carry a firearm almost every day, and never once have I felt compelled to unholster it. That is not to say that I have not been in situations where a crime was being committed. It is to say that if you draw down on someone, you had better be prepared to end a life, or loose your own, because you have immediately created a life or death situation for someone that is likely more prepared to kill than you. My advice to you is that if you have not grown up with a familiarity with firearms, and have extensive training and common sense when it comes to safe, responsible ownership, do not purchase a firearm. Trust me, if I see you on the street, and you are being a jackass about carrying a firearm, I'm going to personally call you out for your foolishness. Sadly, I would likely have to correct 90% of gun owners out there.

 

[anNIALLator]

Unless it's part of a zombie plan, then no. Maybe if you live in a really rough neighbourhood.

 

[dahmerszombies]

Slim hit the nail on the head.
I was also wondering how many people on this forum actually own firearms. What it comes down to is proper training and instruction. You cant ban all firearms because some people commit crimes with them. I enjoy target shooting, and have a 12 gauge. Now some people use a 12 gauge to kill people. They shouldn't ruin my fun.

 

[one-shot-finch]

thanks for the link this question always plagued me for some reason

 

[one-shot-finch]

now that i think about it if you shoot an intruder then call the police all they find is a dead stranger and you holding a gun
I know that actually calling the police would take off suspicion but then a serial killer could bring a victim into house,claim the victim broke in and they would get away with it

two words: Castle Doctrine ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine )

It really depends on which state you are in.

thanks this question always plagued me

 

[one-shot-finch]

oops forgot to quote someone