Poll: Is adding female models to games more trouble than it's worth?

[Akeroh]

I've found, with RO2 and *especially* Brink, that there were tons of people that wanted women in game, and I'm starting to get annoyed, not so much with the request, but that people think that it's simply easy to add a female model.
I understand the fairness, but in Brink and RO2 it'd be simply visual. I'd have no problem with that except for the fact that it wouldn't affect game play, and in order to implement it you would need to-
-Create new skeletons
-Create new models
-Create new animations
-New textures
-New voice acting
-New programming
Along with probably one or two things I've not learned about yet on my degree path. Again, I see why you'd want female characters in games like this, but it's a strikingly *massive* money and manpower expense for something that doesn't change game play at all.
I'm all for female characters in game, but implementing them could easily add another month and a couple hundred thousand to a couple million more dollars to the release of a game that size.
Honestly, I'd prefer to play a game that gives back more money to the studio even if it means that I might not have tits. Maybe it makes more of a difference to people that aren't me, but hey.
What are you guy's two cents?

--Edit: I'm mainly talking about FPS's here. MMO's and rpg's, where you have female character models already, it's not nearly as much of a charge to put in playable female characters.

 

[CCountZero]

Actually, in a game like Brink, where you have multiple "sizes" of males, each with different speeds, health and weapon options, adding females would also require game balancing, given how female models are traditionally smaller that males, in terms of body-mass and physical size.

Potentially, such an addition could wreak havoc on the games current balancing, and force the devs to completely rebalance the males as well.

I can understand why people would want to play a female character, given how one might actually be one, or simply be like myself, a guy who prefers to play female characters because Mages simply aren't meant to be big and burly.

But in a game centred around fast-paced action from a first-person perspective, I simply don't see how it'd be a worthwhile addition.

Could they have included females from the get-go? Sure.
Would I consider a person to be nit-picky if the lack of female player models meant said person opted out entirely? Sure.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

oh boy, don't let the feminists catch wind of what you just said, you are in for an uproar of rage queef

i can see why it's fair to have both models, but on either side of the coin (males only, females only) i couldn't care less ...if it was cost effective in a game like brink (it's customization was ridonkulous) then yeah i can see why they'd leave it out, and i wouldn't be up in arms boycotting the game over something so trivial that it does next to nothing to add to the game.

but hey, i'm not a game developer or anything, so my opinion doesn't mean too much on the matter

 

[Dimitriov]

For me the thing is if you want to make a game that is about character customization you NEED to include female models. I am well aware it is more work, but a game with only 5 female models and 5 male models has better customization than a game with 100 models that are all male.

Whoopty fuck if it's harder. If customization is a feature then you need to see it through. A game doesn't really need a story to be good (Tetris for example) if the gameplay is solid. However, if you include a story you damn well better give it an ending: it doesn't matter that that's harder and will require more dialogue and writing and level design.

Edit: to be clear I certainly don't care if a game let's you play as male or female unless it tries to claim that character customization is a feature. Max Payne was a great game: I didn't care that I couldn't play as a female character. Portal was a great game: I didn't care that I couldn't play as a male character.

And in a game like Team Fortress it wouldn't matter if all the player models were male or female.

It only becomes a problem if you are trying to claim that your game has character customization.

 

[Stall]

Are you just talking about female models in FPSs or all games?

 

[WouldYouKindly]

Theoretically, it's half the gamer population. I'd say it's far more important in RPGs, most of which do this, due to the fact that many people create characters they kinda care about.

FPS, which I feel you are talking about, would still be worth it not to antagonize(perhaps, I suppose many girl gamers might not care) half of the population.

 

[Veylon]

Wouldn't the logical conclusion to this cost-cutting argument be that there should only be one model? And a single voice actor? And palette-swapping to avoid texture overhead? And maybe get rid of any animation that isn't strictly necessary?

I know that someone will say these are going to far, but how far is too far and why?

 

[Hipster Chick]

Given the females are half of the population of gamers, why shouldn't they expect to be represented in games?

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

Maybe it is too much trouble to add Male game models. Let's exclude them instead.

Consider the demographics. I'm pretty sure that more guys played Brink than girls. They're just pandering to the demographics.

Maybe they could do a poll to see which gender people would rather play as?
I don't think it really matters much. Then again, I'm a heterosexual white male, so nothing bothers me much.

 

[Lilani]

-snip-

See, as a female, I don't really mind male-only games in certain situations. Characters with customizable avatars, however, are not the proper situation. And here is why:

For me the thing is if you want to make a game that is about character customization you NEED to include female models. I am well aware it is more work, but a game with only 5 female models and 5 male models has better customization than a game with 100 models that are all male.

See, I love TF2. I mean I LOVE TF2. The gameplay is smooth and fun, and the characters and "story" are hilarious. And it works because the character's identities are laid out for you. They have their own identities and personalities, and they are fleshed-out and authentic enough to feel whole on their own. Sure there are no female classes, but because the characters are so good I don't feel like anything is missing. I don't play games like that to have a perfectly even number of males and females. I play games like that to have fun and experience fun characters.

However, when the character is YOURS to customize and be a representation of YOU in that world, that is a totally different story. The character is supposed to embody you, or at least whatever persona you choose to take on. The personality and backstory assigned to the character is yours to decide.

In situations like that, it's downright neglectful for the developer to not include female options. If the goal is to give the player as many options as possible, it would only make sense to put both genders in. Sure it will be harder, but since when should that be an excuse? This is fucking Bethesda we're talking about here, so you know they weren't working on a budget of peanuts and ramen noodles. I mean Heaven forbid we expect game developers and publishers to take adversity by the horns for the sake of the quality of their product.

I mean, had they taken the same EXACT concept, design, and style, but instead of having all male models they have all female models, can you imagine the reaction? The game would be dismissed as a clamfest. A game only for the flying boobies. Or let's say they portray the females in a non-exploitative way. Imagine playing a game like that--where the representation of you is only allowed to be females, of varying degrees of girliness or butchness. How would that make you feel? Do you think that would fulfill yours or everyone else's idea of who they should be playing? How well would they be able to embody what you want? It would still feel limited. Like your options are stunted, cut off at the knees.

 

[Doom-Slayer]

-snip-

See this overrall is looking at this from the wrong angle. My question is why are female models being REMOVED. The question suggests that male models are required and female models are extras/optional. Obviously in quite a few situations it makes sense to remove female models, in for example COD style games, since in reality a huge majority of soldiers are male. My problem arises when developers purposefully remove them, with no real justification other than, its easier, since that isn't good enough. If your going to remove them, then have a good reason for it, otherwise include them.

 

[Erana]

Wouldn't the logical conclusion to this cost-cutting argument be that there should only be one model? And a single voice actor? And palette-swapping to avoid texture overhead? And maybe get rid of any animation that isn't strictly necessary?

I know that someone will say these are going to far, but how far is too far and why?

A developer in the IRC the other day was just talking about how absolutely huge the cost of voice acting, huge ad campaigns 'n the likes are.
Take a few million from those parts and use it to tell people to make a female model instead. I mean, for a million dollars, someone could make a damn virtual woman, right?

I understand budget issues that lead to decisions like this being made, but its the sentiment that the title here carries just kills me.
And of course, if I go on to explain why, I'm just being a feminist ***** who doesn't shut up, isn't that right?

 

[Lerasai]

Wouldn't it be just as time saving to have only female models and no male ones? Why should females specifically be cut? I hate this mentality of "there are too few female gamers for them to even matter" that the gaming industry seems to have.
[/ridiculous raging]

Honestly, though, I don't think its so huge of a problem for us to be having this conversation all the time. The best games usually either let you choose your gender or there's a good reason you can't (a reason that's not "its easier that way").

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

Maybe it is too much trouble to add Male game models. Let's exclude them instead.

Consider the demographics. I'm pretty sure that more guys played Brink than girls. They're just pandering to the demographics.

Maybe they could do a poll to see which gender people would rather play as?
I don't think it really matters much. Then again, I'm a heterosexual white male, so nothing bothers me much.

I was being quasi facetious.

I tend to overestimate the seriousness of posts on the Internet.

 

[SteewpidZombie]

From the start: Adding female models and voices and ect. would have virtually ZERO impact on the development of the game.

Near the end of dev: Would actually be abit of a problem since now you need to create characters from scratch, add them to the game, modify the game so that the enviroment reacts to them properly as they would males due to any body/size differences, debug any model problems, fix clothing/gear to properly fit all females aswell, add/remove certain gender specific dialouge, possibly add a female customization feauture, debug all the newly added stuff.


Basically it all comes down to "Lets take the extra week at the begining and have both genders, or we could forget all about it and save that time for goofing around!". In the end, if a developer doesn't do it from the start, it may be impossible later on (especially in complex or open world games). In conclusion, there is NO reason not to have both genders in a game, UNLESS they are ABSOLUTELY strapped for time/money to complete the game and are forced to make cuts wherever possible.

 

[Firetaffer]

Wouldn't it be just as time saving to have only female models and no male ones? Why should females specifically be cut? I hate this mentality of "there are too few female gamers for them to even matter" that the gaming industry seems to have.
[/ridiculous raging]

I think it might be because most of the armies in a lot of countries consist of mostly men. I don't really support that idea, but it sounds like the most obvious reason.

 

[Supertegwyn]

Is this such a major problem? I understand that if you can't play as a Female in Brink or a game like that it would be a bit of a problem, but not THAT big a deal.