Poll: Is it cheap, if it's in the game?

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Charli

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Nov 23, 2008
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This is why I don't PvP on MMO's either...

"Omfg you bubble healed u can't du that in dual nub"
...Well excuse me Mr teleport behind a Tree and use my clones to snipe I was under the impression I was trying to win ya friggin fruitcase. Basically just ignore such people.

If there is some kind of agreement reached between those playing on a broken battle system, yes it should be adhered to, if only out of respect. If it's just some typical whining baby who got back from school this afternoon and want's to be 'teh l33tzor' just go all out with the cheap.
 

Low Key

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May 7, 2009
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thiosk said:
Listen, when you punk someone and he does this "UR NOOB 4 BEETING ME OFF" thing that this idiot is doing, its to make themselves feel superior because you're off posting about how it hurt your feelings. This is wrong. You crushed the imbecile, thus, you should feel superior. Unfortunatly, its like arguing with a doorknob, as they will always blame your noobtrix.

The only proper responses to these people involve the words "mom" and "your" and "i screwed" and "while pwning your face"

The only way to beat them is to sink to their level. They will in nearly all cases tell you their mom is dead. This is a lie. And if its not, your response of "yeah cuz im huge" is all the more innapropriate and effective.
I like your style.
 

Halfbreed13

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Apr 21, 2009
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vdgmprgrmr said:
Whether or not it's in the game does not affect whether or not it's cheap.

And simply it being in the game does not magically make it fair.

A former friend of mine used that as justification for keeping a character in D&D that rolled 16,16,17,15,18,15 as his stats. I said it was unfair for one character to be better than another in all areas (it was AD&D 2e, told him to reroll (I was the DM), and he got all pissy.

In real life, go cheap. It's survival. In games, don't go cheap. The game is meant to be mutually fun, and using dirty tactics makes it fun for you, but definitely not the others.
Thank you
 

Internet Kraken

Animalia Mollusca Cephalopada
Mar 18, 2009
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Trivun said:
Internet Kraken said:
Just because it's in the game it doesn't mean you can exploit it.

Of course, this only applies to multiplayer.
That's silly. If it's in the game then it was put there for people to use, so why not use it just because someone who isn't as good a player as you doesn't like it? If I find a tactic or weapon or something in any multiplayer game that works for me then I'll use it as long as it works, regardless of what anyone thinks. How is it cheating or game breaking to use what's been put in the game in the first place?
I'm talking about something that is blatantly broken. Something that will be fixed in a future patch.

For example, if there was an exploit that allowed you to glitch under the map and kill people from there.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Well I find that what is considered "skill" by one person is not nessicarly "skill" to another.

When it comes to games I feel one of the problems is that developers rarely put much thought into multiplayer game balance. Even when they do, they like usually get a thousand hard core beta players and then MAYBE act based on their feedback depending on how much work it would take to implement. Having been a beta tester for MMORPGs I've sat there and literally watched testers (including me) sounding off on how borked something is, only to have it ignored because fixing it in the required context would be too much work.

One of the issues is also the fact that if something is balanced around a single player game and pretty much needed to play that mode, "fixing" it for multiplayer would also involve a lot of retroactive coding to adjust things in other parts of the game around it, in order to keep everything consistant. Since these guys are usually using a pre-made engine to begin with chances are they are just plugging a gun into a specific slot, and they can't like make two sets of stats for the same thing for multiplayer and singleplayer very easily. One of the problems with how a lot of games are developed.

In some games a certain weapon is needed to deal with the more epic moments of a campaign (the super enemies, or the final base that needs to be assaulted) and when the odds aren't that outrageous that same weapon becomes a problem person vs. person.

Also I've found that game designers are really bad at balancing "ease of use" in overall power equasions. When looking at fighting games, like say Street Fighter IV, characters like Sagat or Ryu don't seem all that overpowered by the numbers when you compare what they have compared to other characters. But then when you consider the ease at which their special moves and such can be performed and linked into differant strategies, the low learning curve involves a lot of people using them, and due to faster learning staying ahead of those who tend not to use them. The ease of say Ryu doing his fireball is incredible, compared to say Zangief doing one of his uber-piledrivers with their huge damage that balance him overall.

I don't play shooters competitively, but it seems very similar. Person vs. Person you wind up in close quarters a disproportionate amount of the time, and very quick killing at that range with chainsaws and shotguns is needed to have the game remain playable in a single player campaign (Close Quarters Combat), yet in a deathmatch or whatever a one hit fight ender like that rapidly becomes overpowering.

Truthfully with all the cr@p games like Doom got for it's multiplayer over Rocket Launchers in PVP one would think they would have learned to think ahead to balance weapons a bit better. Not that I much care given my play choices. :)

>>>----Therumancer--->
 

TheDoctor455

Friendly Neighborhood Time Lord
Apr 1, 2009
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Yeah, as long as you're not using these tricks to deliberately make the other players miserable, then I don't see any problem with using them.
 

vede

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Dec 4, 2007
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Piemaster said:
If it's in the game use it. If it's too overpowered then the game is flawed.
You show me one competitive game that isn't flawed, then.

TheDoctor455 said:
Yeah, as long as you're not using these tricks to deliberately make the other players miserable, then I don't see any problem with using them.
Even if it's not deliberate, you shouldn't make others miserable in an activity meant to be fun.

Ray Conner said:
Ugh. I hate idiots like that. If the designers did their job, then everything in the game should have a counter. Besides, FPS are mimicing wars. In war, you want to live while the other bastard dies. The quiker the better. Thats really the only thing to it, looking at pure basics.
If FPS seriously tried to mimic war, people playing FPS would come out with PTSD and probably various other psychological problems. FPS are meant to mimic war in such a way that war becomes fun. They are not meant to be a true reflection of war at all.

And just because designers are supposed to balance a game in every possible way does not mean that they do, or that they even can.
 

Ray Conner

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Jan 25, 2009
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Ugh. I hate idiots like that. If the designers did their job, then everything in the game should have a counter. Besides, FPS are mimicing wars. In war, you want to live while the other bastard dies. The quiker the better. Thats really the only thing to it, looking at pure basics.
 

SharPhoe

The Nice-talgia Kerrick
Feb 28, 2009
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Gxas said:
If it is the game, it is fair game. Does it mean you are skilled at the game by using this method? By all means no.
This.

Also, from the thread title, I thought it was going to refer to exploiting glitches. But I know you're better than that, Exalted.

Riiiiiiight?
 

Kiutu

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Sep 27, 2008
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Well, things CAN be unbalanced, and when you say 'in the game' I hope you mean what was intentionally in the game. Glitches are 'in the game' too. Generally, I may ***** about unbalanced things but that is certain things. Usually though I am on your side of if its in the game its fine. This started for me in CoD2 as snipers were what was always bitched at. Though I would hope people adhere to a general code of honor. It may be in the game, but people may start to not like you. So if you care or not is your choice.
 

Cliff_m85

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Feb 6, 2009
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paypuh said:
thiosk said:
Listen, when you punk someone and he does this "UR NOOB 4 BEETING ME OFF" thing that this idiot is doing, its to make themselves feel superior because you're off posting about how it hurt your feelings. This is wrong. You crushed the imbecile, thus, you should feel superior. Unfortunatly, its like arguing with a doorknob, as they will always blame your noobtrix.

The only proper responses to these people involve the words "mom" and "your" and "i screwed" and "while pwning your face"

The only way to beat them is to sink to their level. They will in nearly all cases tell you their mom is dead. This is a lie. And if its not, your response of "yeah cuz im huge" is all the more innapropriate and effective.
I like your style.
I like to play with their homophobia, so my rendition has 'dad' rather than mom. They don't really know how to respond...they could call be a fag (some do), but that doesn't negate my claim of fornicating their father.
 

Audemas

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Aug 12, 2008
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Halfbreed13 said:
ExaltedK9 said:
I just finished a game of Halo Wars, that I won. A little while afterwards, I was messaged by my opponent, calling me a noob, and saying that I only won because I used Sanders (who is believed to be easier).

I see alot of this, not only pertaining to Halo wars, but many other games too. Like 2 piecing in GoW2, or melee spamming in L4D. So what I ask of you, my fellow escapists, is it wrong if it's in the game? My stand is that: if it's in the game, it goes.

Alot of times I hear things like, "things like that are only used as equalizers for players who don't have the skillz to do it the right way", or "only noobs use cheap tricks.

I'm sorry if this has been done before, but I could'nt find another one like it. So please, express your view's my fellow escapists.
In games like Halo where you just hunt down the one god weapon of the map, I think all MP is cheap, but that is just halo for me.

CoD4 is entirely different as you customize the class and there is xp and strategy to loading out your class. Now, some things like Nade launchers are cheap, and game devs should strive to balance the game and make score based off skill.
I would have to disagree that the grenade launcher is cheap. The only thing "cheap" about them would be the large amount of splash damage. Even with the large splash damage, you have to aim accurately and many other things. Besides, I use the the RPG's and they seem to counter the M203's pretty well so I don't have to use the grenade launcher.Anyway back to the OP, I don't think it's cheap if everyone has access to them.
 

Erana

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Feb 28, 2008
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If you can't have fun without ruining the game for others, you shouldn't be playing the game, period. Still, they might just be a sore loser, in which they're spoiling your fun and they should stop playing.
 

Halfbreed13

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Apr 21, 2009
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Audemas said:
Halfbreed13 said:
ExaltedK9 said:
I just finished a game of Halo Wars, that I won. A little while afterwards, I was messaged by my opponent, calling me a noob, and saying that I only won because I used Sanders (who is believed to be easier).

I see alot of this, not only pertaining to Halo wars, but many other games too. Like 2 piecing in GoW2, or melee spamming in L4D. So what I ask of you, my fellow escapists, is it wrong if it's in the game? My stand is that: if it's in the game, it goes.

Alot of times I hear things like, "things like that are only used as equalizers for players who don't have the skillz to do it the right way", or "only noobs use cheap tricks.

I'm sorry if this has been done before, but I could'nt find another one like it. So please, express your view's my fellow escapists.
In games like Halo where you just hunt down the one god weapon of the map, I think all MP is cheap, but that is just halo for me.

CoD4 is entirely different as you customize the class and there is xp and strategy to loading out your class. Now, some things like Nade launchers are cheap, and game devs should strive to balance the game and make score based off skill.
I would have to disagree that the grenade launcher is cheap. The only thing "cheap" about them would be the large amount of splash damage. Even with the large splash damage, you have to aim accurately and many other things. Besides, I use the the RPG's and they seem to counter the M203's pretty well so I don't have to use the grenade launcher.Anyway back to the OP, I don't think it's cheap if everyone has access to them.
A nade that detonates on impact and can be launched the length of some maps undermines the two drawbacks that balance nades
 

Audemas

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Aug 12, 2008
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Halfbreed13 said:
Audemas said:
Halfbreed13 said:
ExaltedK9 said:
I just finished a game of Halo Wars, that I won. A little while afterwards, I was messaged by my opponent, calling me a noob, and saying that I only won because I used Sanders (who is believed to be easier).

I see alot of this, not only pertaining to Halo wars, but many other games too. Like 2 piecing in GoW2, or melee spamming in L4D. So what I ask of you, my fellow escapists, is it wrong if it's in the game? My stand is that: if it's in the game, it goes.

Alot of times I hear things like, "things like that are only used as equalizers for players who don't have the skillz to do it the right way", or "only noobs use cheap tricks.

I'm sorry if this has been done before, but I could'nt find another one like it. So please, express your view's my fellow escapists.
In games like Halo where you just hunt down the one god weapon of the map, I think all MP is cheap, but that is just halo for me.

CoD4 is entirely different as you customize the class and there is xp and strategy to loading out your class. Now, some things like Nade launchers are cheap, and game devs should strive to balance the game and make score based off skill.
I would have to disagree that the grenade launcher is cheap. The only thing "cheap" about them would be the large amount of splash damage. Even with the large splash damage, you have to aim accurately and many other things. Besides, I use the the RPG's and they seem to counter the M203's pretty well so I don't have to use the grenade launcher.Anyway back to the OP, I don't think it's cheap if everyone has access to them.
A nade that detonates on impact and can be launched the length of some maps undermines the two drawbacks that balance nades
Well while they can hit you from the other side of the map, you really shouldn't be out in the open. It's a bad idea anyway and you could just get as good as everyone else who uses them. And the exploding on impact is the splash damage, unless they hit you close enough that it doesn't detonate and instead just kills you from the impact.