Poll: Is KOTOR really as good as we say?

[endtherapture]

KoTOR, first time round was an amazing game. Visuals were great at the time, had an epic Star Wars feel, great story, interesting characters. However in the modern day it's a bit stale, especially considering most other Bioware games are just a retread of KoTORs plot in a different setting.

KoTOR2 whilst at the time didn't seem as enjoyable, is a far better game in hindsight, especially in story but even in gameplay stakes, with more unique quests, cool planets, and prestige classes.

 

[KINGBeerZ]

I just finished KOTOR today, my friend got me to start it a little while ago, and quite frankly I have to say it is better than or at least as good as many more recently released games that I've played.

 

[The Lugz]

it has lightsabers, it has quests, it has dialogue options, it has cool space androids of doom, it has podracing ( kinda ) and yet.. i stopped playing about 3/4 in because i got BORED.

yes really. the entire interaction with the world was unengaging,
like reading a book about things other people were doing.

I honestly wonder why people rate it so highly, but then I wonder allot of things about 'people' so perhaps that's my problem

 

[Nicolairigel]

I love KoTOR, but as many are starting to realized probably with the restoration mod it's story and writing pale in comparison to the masterpiece which is KoTOR II.

(Incoming KoTOR II and Obsidian masturbation)

As many have said, the first KoTOR is a straight-faced star wars game. It follows a formula very solid to movies, good dialogue, a fun story, great characters, and of course an awesome twist. However, KoTOR II is way, WAYYYY more than that. If anything it feels like it deserves more than to be labelled as a "Star Wars" game. It's an incredibly dark game game with some of the best writing to date, and in many ways is not just a subversion border lining on "dark parody" just the first KoTOR but the entire universe of Star Wars, especially the entire idea of the "Force."

Seriously, after going through the dark Obsidian representation of the "Force", every statement of "may the force be with you" both in and out of the game seems so ironically nerving.

 

[veloper]

Let's see now...

A terrible RT adaptation of D20, makes for poor gameplay.
The predictable plot and 2-dimensional(or is that 1-D?) characters within a space opera/fantasy setting, while lacking a decent theme or message, make a tolerable story, for a videogame that is.

Mostly cosmetic dialogue choices and few narrative consequences make for slightly above average player agency (or roleplaying), for a CRPG.

KOTOR cannot be anything more than a mediocre game and that's being generous. K is pretty poor even for Bioware. BG2 was equal or better than KOTOR in every respect: better RT adaptation of a tabletop game, better encounter design, more fun characters, more choice...even the old scenery was prettier.

 

[llubtoille]

Loved kotor1 but didn't care as much for kotor2, the story just didn't appeal to me, disliked too many of the characters.
the combat system is something you pretty much have to read up on to understand, otherwise you might for instance let your attack rating slide... and then you're pretty much boned.

Should add that the first time I played it was late last year, so I had no rose-tinted glasses on at the time.
the 3rd person style and inability to look up/down was odd, but after about 5 hours I pretty much got used to it and it started to feel a bit more natural.
Not familiar with any other of biowares stuff, nor d&d in general, though I've since played neverwinter nights 1 and found it quite enjoyable too.

 

[A Weakgeek]

From a huge starwars fan, and a fan of old CRPGs with DnD combat whos getting sick of these washed down action RPGs: Yes its still good, no bioware hasn't made a better game since.

 

[gunny1993]

Kotor was a very good solid game
Kotor 2 was an exceptional game (just exceptionally badly made)

 

[GabeZhul]

I think there ought to be a little more shading in the poll choices. It's practically a choice between EVERYTHING IS AWESOME, EVERYTHING IS RUBBISH and MEH, I AM UNDECISISVE (plus the mandatory options that have nothing to do with the actual quality. why would you give an option to people who haven't played the game? they just shouldn't vote at all!).

That said, my breakdown:

-Story: Solid main plot that introduced the token "you have to go four+ different places to collect something, something important happens after the second to last, and then you go to the final confrontation which is linear" structure that was pretty much the backbone of most BioWare games for a while, so at this point it wasn't boring and predictable. The plot-twist is pretty much legendary, so there is nothing much to say about that one, though if you were at least a little bit genre savvy it could be seen from a mile away. Overall, it was good.

-Characters: You have Bastila, who was a pretty decent character and Carth who had a good back-story that never really amounted to anything. They were also the only two romancable characters, so they got the most screen time and character development, so they were okay. The rest, while relatively interesting, were mostly two-dimensional characters (or non-characters in the case of Zalbaar, who was just the Wookie of the team and T3-M4 who was just an R2 expy without any of the character of the latter). We also got HK-47, who was funny but once you ran out of his repair-conversations he didn't amount for much. Overall, the characters were passable.

-Technical details: The game was prone to crashes when it came out, and that is pretty much the fault of the engine itself. Thankfully the patched version on modern machines is pretty stable, but it is still an unoptimized mess that can slow down even of machines four times the recommended specs. The graphics also didn't age well, especially the textures, though at least some of the character models kind of work because they have a slightly cartoony feeling to them. In fact, I think the game would look quite acceptable even today if we could somehow slap some cell shading effects on the engine. It wouldn't help the animations though, which are very distracting during conversations, especially after the much more polished later BioWare games. Overall the technical details of the game are quite dated and rough by today's standards.

-Gameplay: The system works, I am not debating that, but it really doesn't work well. The action is choppy and the game is pretty unbalanced, with grenades being almost completely useless, a very limited upgrade system, almost no random loot and a pigeonholed skills system (Your MC MUST have Persuasion maxed, since he/she is the only one who can even use it, and the rest can either go to Computer Use, Lockpicking or Repair, as the rest of the skills are totally useless and if you REALLY need them for a specific situation, you can always take a companion that has them). Overall it's playable, but it's sluggish, unbalanced and kind of tiresome after a while.

So, as an overall measurement, I would say KotOR was a good game for its time, and it's still playable today, but it was a product of its time and it's not as good as the nostalgia goggles would make you believe, although still a decent one with a story worth experiencing.

 

[Guy from the 80's]

Better than Mass Effect in general thats for sure. Better characters and better everything. And force powers are far more rewarding that biotics, and light saber and lazer guns better than the weaponry in mass effect. When they introduced thermal clips it just became another shooter. Meh.

Also, KOTOR had better moral choices.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

I really enjoyed my last play thru (approx 4 years ago)
graphics a little dated, true. (there are some mods I hear help improve a little)
to all the clunky combat comments, i'd say; it was an early attempt at real time turn based combat (personally i'd just keep pausing the battles)

As for the story, those thinking its sub par to todays standards; what are these games you're playing with such amazing stories?

 

[AuronFtw]

KOTOR II, however, was amazing.

Yeah, amazing at fitting so many completely unlikeable characters into a single cast. I think it's a record, there weren't any party members or NPCs in that game I didn't want to kick in the teeth within the first 5 minutes of meeting them.

Shit turned me off eventually, I knew that one of the many teeth-kick contestants had plot armor and my inability to actually kick her in the teeth drove me to quit playing. Kotor 1 had none of that and was automatically a vastly superior game because of it.

 

[Mister K]

I played KOTOR 1 and 2 for the first time about a year ago, so my experience with it is relatively fresh.
I think that this game, while not being the best one, is still pretty good.

I really liked combat system which, unlike DAO, successfully managed to combine action with kind-of turn based system.
Class system is relatively flexible.

Characters. Well, not all of them good, but non of them are bad. Heck, Jolee and HK-47 are pretty darn great. Also, I lked Brianna (Handmaiden) in part 2. She, while being not that good story-wise, was so damn cool gameplay-wise. I was more of a mage type Jedi, so having melle fighters is good and bonus points for fighting bare-handed.

The only problems I have are:
1. In 1st part, you begin your Jedi path relatively late, so you are not that good of a character.
2. Blasters aren't that useful.
3. Jedi and Sith are one-dimensional groups, that deal in absolutes (no emotions vs complete lack of discipline, respectively). But that's not Bioware's fault, but rather fault of the SW Universe.

EDIT: I think it aged well.

 

[endtherapture]

KOTOR II, however, was amazing.

Yeah, amazing at fitting so many completely unlikeable characters into a single cast. I think it's a record, there weren't any party members or NPCs in that game I didn't want to kick in the teeth within the first 5 minutes of meeting them.

Shit turned me off eventually, I knew that one of the many teeth-kick contestants had plot armor and my inability to actually kick her in the teeth drove me to quit playing. Kotor 1 had none of that and was automatically a vastly superior game because of it.

Did you go all the way through Atton's character story? He seemed like a Han Solo rip off on the front, but behind all that he was an incrdedibly deep and well written character.

Also Hk-47.

I liked in KOTOR2 that your character didn't have amnesia for some unknown reason and had intereactions with old characters like Bao Duur who knew you before the game, adding depth.

 

[Auberon]

Bioware plays KOTOR far too conventionally with extremes (how did Yahtzee put it, Mother Teresa and eating a baby) and writes the plot far too simply. It's decent game but not ground-shaking in any way.

KOTOR2 is Planescape IN SPACE with the themes, and Obsidian has always IMO written better characters. Plus it actually provides 180-degree turn in viewpoint and makes the choices ambiguous. Restoration mod is mandatory if you want to play.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

I can't vote because none of these poll options are correct. The gameplay was terrible. Everything else was really well done.

 

[MCerberus]

Sure games age, but that's the price of learning the lessons. I like the KotOR games (TOR included, stuff like exploring what being a normal dude in the setting or fleshing out how both pure order or chaos makes people less than people). When you look at their characters you know someone went back and tried to craft them with twists on the familiar. They're always pushing against the edges of the setting, and I love it warts and all (good Bioware games are very warty).

And then we can compare it to safe, paint-by-numbers complete lack of personality fantasy like Fable 3 or corporate-mandated military shooter #45918: Dog edition. I'll take KotOR.

 

[Guy from the 80's]

Just starting playing KOTOR on STEAM, yeah right at the starting screen you notice its special. This game is the best title Bioware has presented yet. Yes I said it.