Poll: Is Not Dating a Certain Race Racist?

[BloatedGuppy]

Let's correlate to your statement:
Choosing SOLELY because of GENDER is the very definition of SEXISM.

Sounds silly when you put it that way based on the subject matter at hand.

Still not thrilled with this analogy, which has popped up repeatedly, as gender preference is biologically determined, whilst "racial preference" is not.

Plainly people are going to develop sexual preferences due to environment, upbringing, and personal quirks. They're not going to have a lot of control over them. I have no problem if Subject A fails to find a black woman attractive once, twice, or half a hundred times. Where things get problematic is when Subject A makes the generalized statement "I don't find black women attractive", because it's a prejudicial statement based on limited anecdotal experience. Is it Super Serious Racism? Should Subject A just go ahead and get a swastika emblazoned on their forehead for their lazy use of language? Of course not. But it's still a "kinda racist thing to say", and in mixed company one or two people might very well walk off with the impression that Subject A is racist. And Subject A can write a sad poem about the overly sensitive, politically correct nature of society afterwards if they choose, but if Subject A doesn't like giving the impression they're racist they could easily combat that by not saying things that can easily (and not incorrectly) be interpreted as race based prejudice.

There's also a substantial difference between positive race-based preference (Asians? Fuck yeah!) and negative race-based preferences (Indians? Oh GROSS!). Obviously, one is going to provoke a lot more raised eyebrows than the other.

 

[Collin Stewart]

it would depend on how you interpret the question.
Personally, I would never date a non white person, this is simply because I have never felt attraction to non white people, this is not because i dislike other races but simply because i do not find that genetic structure to be attractive as a romantic partner.
If you did find other races attractive but thought "I won't date that attractive Asian chick because she is Asian", that is racist.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

It isn't rational and should not be held to those standards - which is the main flaw in the argument that people, like yourself, seem to be making. It's silly to label people as "racist" -even if only a little- due to something for which they have no control (limited annecdotes {which is very presumptuous of you I might add} or no).

No one claimed it WAS rational. I already stated people have very, very little control over their preferences. Not none...but very little.

However, since you are a fan of rationality, I will again call attention to the fact that "Joey doesn't find Andrea, a black girl, attractive" is not the problem. The problem is Joey then saying "I don't like ANY black girls, because I found 1/5/10 of them unattractive". It operates on a presumption that your membership in a given race means you share a sweeping range of physical characteristics with all other members of your race, and as such can be dismissed as a unit. Even skin tone is not a universally shared trait. This is the definition of prejudice.

If the response to this is "It's just a language short cut to mean he's never found one he thought was attractive", yeah it is. I acknowledged that. It's a language shortcut that, for better or for worse, kinda sounds a bit racist.

 

[Shadowstar38]

Where things get problematic is when Subject A makes the generalized statement "I don't find black women attractive", because it's a prejudicial statement based on limited anecdotal experience.

If an event happens 100% of the time, I can be fairly sure that it's going to remain a constant.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

If an event happens 100% of the time, I can be fairly sure that it's going to remain a constant.

Really? So if I flip a coin 5 times, and it comes up heads five times, I can be fairly sure that coin is always going to come up heads. Good to know!

 

[Shadowstar38]

If an event happens 100% of the time, I can be fairly sure that it's going to remain a constant.

Really? So if I flip a coin 5 times, and it comes up heads five times, I can be fairly sure that coin is always going to come up heads. Good to know!

If I've only seen 5-20 black women then sure. I'd be going to far. But all of them someone's seen over the years and they don't think a single one looks pretty? You'd have to show them an exception to the rule before "I'm not attracted to black girls" becomes false.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

If I've only seen 5-20 black women then sure. I'd be going to far. But all of them someone's seen over the years and they don't think a single one looks pretty? You'd have to show them an exception to the rule before "I'm not attracted to black girls" becomes false.

So when you're dealing with a sample size of millions upon millions of possibilities, how many do you think is sufficient to be able to authoritatively state they're all going to match your anecdotal experience? I mean, I've seen a LOT of Native Americans. A lot. I can't recall ever being personally attracted to one of them. At no point did it ever occur to me to say "Well that's enough data...I could never find a Native American attractive". Because that would be absurd. Also kind of a little bit racist.

 

[Blue Hero]

No.

I don't find typical asian features attractive so I wont date an asian, buy I have no problem with asian people. Not everything relating to race needs to be racist.

 

[Shadowstar38]

If I've only seen 5-20 black women then sure. I'd be going to far. But all of them someone's seen over the years and they don't think a single one looks pretty? You'd have to show them an exception to the rule before "I'm not attracted to black girls" becomes false.

So when you're dealing with a sample size of millions upon millions of possibilities, how many do you think is sufficient to be able to authoritatively state they're all going to match your anecdotal experience? I mean, I've seen a LOT of Native Americans. A lot. I can't recall ever being personally attracted to one of them. At no point did it ever occur to me to say "Well that's enough data...I could never find a Native American attractive". Because that would be absurd. Also kind of a little bit racist.

You can't say you'll never find one attractive. You can still say you're not attracted to them as a general rule of thumb if someone were looking for a date for you based partly on basic characteristics.

I'd also ask you what about them didn't appeal to you. It's pretty important context I need before I declaire anything racist.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

You can't say you'll never find one attractive.

Well as this thread demonstrates, you CAN. It's just kind of racist, is all.

Other than that, we're more or less in agreement. I have no issue with people failing to find any individual attractive. Attraction is not equal opportunity and it tends to skew along some pretty bizarre, inexplicable lines sometimes. I have a MILD issue with people making sweeping, prejudicial statements about race, because it's "kinda racist", but more specifically because it's really lazy use of language and leads to debates exactly like this one. I DEFINITELY have a problem with the individual discussed in the OP, because that guy was either a ludicrously over the top racist or a particularly unsubtle troll.

 

[Shadowstar38]

You can't say you'll never find one attractive.

Well as this thread demonstrates, you CAN. It's just kind of racist, is all.

Other than that, we're more or less in agreement. I have no issue with people failing to find any individual attractive. Attraction is not equal opportunity and it tends to skew along some pretty bizarre, inexplicable lines sometimes. I have a MILD issue with people making sweeping, prejudicial statements about race, because it's "kinda racist", but more specifically because it's really lazy use of language and leads to debates exactly like this one. I DEFINITELY have a problem with the individual discussed in the OP, because that guy was either a ludicrously over the top racist or a particularly unsubtle troll.

Why do you keep using the word racist when you agree that what we're talking about is neither on purpose nor is malicious in intent?

 

[Easton Dark]

-snip-

-snip-

Okay, if we're going to play that game, here's a definition straight from Wikipedia.

Here's a definition straight from a dictionary http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

- poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race

- the belief that some races of people are better than others

(ie, for a potential romantic partner)

- racial prejudice or discrimination

Please, do explain how a person can perform an action, maintain a practice, or hold a belief without any conscious thought or effort.

The conscious thought is "I don't find this race attractive" as stated by many in this thread. That's the racist part.

Some people don't like their prospective mates to have darker hair or darker skin, and that's simply their taste.

So it's their skin color, right? That part people can't control?

who you are attracted to isn't fully within your control

I agree, but that doesn't make it not-racist when you say no to an entire race.

Now if you want to call yourselves racist, fine, but I'm not interested in being called racist (nor sexist) simply because of whom I'm attracted to.

Just don't change the meanings of words to make yourself feel better. That's what I don't like. Look below.

Seriously, do you not understand where this naturally leads? "You don't like white women, you're a racist!" "You hate blacks, you damn racist!" "Hey, why aren't you dating a woman? SEXIST!" .... and before long, everyone's got to make sure to date each gender and race to avoid being considered a bigot, as if dating were a bloody checklist rather than a connection between attracted parties. Keep the racism/sexism crap out of dating. It's hard enough without having to worry if people think you're secretly an uber-big racist because of who's holding hands with you. >_>

Like I said, no one cares. It doesn't matter.

This type of racism hurts nobody.

The only way this would be the horrible kind of racism that gets railed against is if you thought, "I don't like that race, no one should date them because I find them un-dateable". Same with sexism.

Being your "taste" does not change something into something else. Everyone's a little racist, and now you know why that's a saying, it's because of this very debate topic. Different races are more or less attractive to different people.

You know the worst thing someone could call you for not liking the look of a certain race? Shallow. Skin deep approximation of a person's attractiveness. Ooo, what a horrible thing to say, has a lot of weight.

 

[Soundwave]

Please, do explain how a person can perform an action, maintain a practice, or hold a belief without any conscious thought or effort.

Breathing is a reflexive action that doesn't require thought.

....nothing? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Which is to say, you didn't think.

The point, again, is that when people say "they just don't feel attracted to X race", what they're really saying is "I have no other way of not sounding racist when I say that I think X race is repugnant to me".

 

[Soundwave]

Please, do explain how a person can perform an action, maintain a practice, or hold a belief without any conscious thought or effort.

Breathing is a reflexive action that doesn't require thought.

And breathing is exactly like racism, right?

And you say *I* was the one who didn't put thought into what I said. HA!

Well, for some people racism is so ingrained it might as well be.

Please try thinking. Like before you post anything else, I mean.

Physical attractions are learned behaviors. Hence how the view of beauty evolves over time. You show one of those 'heroin-chic' models to a guy a hundred years ago, and he'd probably vomit.

Racism, like physical attraction, is absorbed from culture.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Why do you keep using the word racist when you agree that what we're talking about is neither on purpose nor is malicious in intent?

Who said racism had to be "malicious in intent"?

As stated earlier in this thread, there's a few too many people who are a little too excited about defending themselves (or hypothetical others) from imaginary attacks, so they're working overtime to change the definition of a word. It's race based prejudice. That is the essence of racism. There are degrees of difference between "casually, incidentally racist" and "Grand Wizard of the Klu Klux Klan", but it's still technically "racism".

Yeah, I know, this forum is incredibly uppity and there's a demographic of people who go into full boo hoo overdrive if they're ever accused of being an -ist, regardless of whether or not it perfectly describes their actions or world view, but words have definitions for a reason, and in this particular case this particular word does apply. I'm not up in arms about it. I really don't care. But neither do I care if someone gets hurt feelings because their "no blacks" policy comes across a little bit racist in casual conversation.

But that's NOT what racism means. Like, at all. Your own definition disagrees with you.

I thought your own Wiki quote covered it well (although resorting to Wiki quotes should really be an automatic debate penalty, but I liked your definition and it suits my purposes, so we'll give it a pass =P)

Racism, also sometimes called racialism, is generally defined as actions, practices, or beliefs that consider the human species to be divided into races with shared traits, abilities, or qualities, such as personality, intellect, morality, or other cultural behavioral characteristics, and especially the belief that races can be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to others, or that members of different races should be treated differently.

That bit, right there in bold, is what leads to someone concluding they couldn't possibly find even one out of millions of people attractive because of their experiences with a tiny handful. Kind of a "Well if you've seen 100 blacks, you've seen em all!" policy, if you will.

But as discussed (possibly with you, I can't keep track any more), I highly doubt the average person actually sits there thinking "well I didn't like the last 10 black people I dated, I'm guessing the rest will suck too". They're making a casual statement of preference in an absolutist way because people are lazy and stupid and don't consider how the things they say might sound to someone who doesn't know them very well.