Poll: Is treating women in Gentlemanly way Sexist?

[Diddy_Mao]

As is frequently the case I think it comes down to intention. If I hold a door for a woman (or man) I do it because it's polite and civil. If I offer my jacket or pay for a meal or whatever the situation may be I do so because I expect to be treated with a degree of civility and as such should make it a point to treat others the same. That being said I know there are things I do that are gender specific and perhaps a bit chauvanistic.

The worst example being that if I'm the only guy in a group and we're out at a bar or club it's not long before I'm no longer having fun and instead spend the bulk of my time scanning the crowd for dudes to punch. Not getting in fights just to be manly mind you, just that eventually every guy in the room becomes a potential friend rapist in my mind.

I know this is far from enlightened or modern behavior...it just sneaks up on me

 

[tensorproduct]

Well, I try to act as gentlemanly as I can, but... only if a woman deserves it. Random strangers? Sure, I don't judge them, treat them well. Girls I like? Same, treat them well. Annoying bitches that have superiority complex or think they're in the center of the word? Hell no.

You can expect to be treated like a woman when you act like a woman.

What do you mean by "act like a woman"? What sort of behaviour lets someone deserve to be treated like a woman?

 

[BrassButtons]

I grant this; however, as I might have not clearly stated in my other post (looking back, it's a bit of a mess), I meant primarily to rebut the "it's about women being less capable than men" part

I understand that. But if someone only holds the door open for women, and only because they are women, then what reasons are there other than "because women are less capable"? It can't be about common politeness, because holding the door open is polite regardless of the other person's gender. The only reasons I can see are "because women need or deserve help on account of gender" and "because it's expected," and as far as I'm aware the reason it's expected is because people used to generally think women needed the help, and the resulting actions became normal even after the reasoning behind them started to erode away.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

If sexism is ANY and EVERY form of treating someone of a different sex (which it is), then yes, it is extremely sexist.

 

[pspman45]

this is my opinion on sexism.
Women want equal rights?
cool, I have absolutely no problem with that
but if you want De Jure equality, then you should also get De Facto equality

 

[marfin_]

So, afew people on here have called me sexist. What for? For suggesting that men treat women in a gentlemanly manner. Now, I can see that too a certain extent, like the whole "The world is unsafe for women, So I will keep you away from the world" style of gentleman-re IS sexist. However, what I was refering too was holding the door open for a women, pulling out her chair for her, offering her your jacket if it is cold, things like that. THAT is what I fail to see as being sexist.

So escapist, does the fact I want to be a gentleman make me sexist?

I think people have a problem with Women and Men being different but equal. I know people say duh we ARE biologically and emotionally different, but whenever some groups complain about things like this you kinda get the hint that they see being different as being unequal. I also open doors for women and get a couple of weird looks and I have been scoffed at, but I continue to act gentlemanly. I cannot see anything wrong with it, nor have I ever heard good arguments as to why it is sexist. Whenever I perform acts of chivalry I do not do it out of pity for a woman, but respect... I just wish that these groups were more concerned with more blatant forms of sexism and disrespect towards women like helping to stop domestic abuse.

 

[Zeema]

Now days everything seems to be sexist or racist. people act too much like children

 

[BrassButtons]

I think people have a problem with Women and Men being different but equal. I know people say duh we ARE biologically and emotionally different, but whenever some groups complain about things like this you kinda get the hint that they see being different as being unequal.

Which differences between men and women are relevant to door-opening?

nor have I ever heard good arguments as to why it is sexist.

If you only open doors for women, simply because they are women (so holding the door for a woman who's hands are full doesn't necessarily count) then it is sexist because you are treating people differently based on gender in situations where gender isn't relevant.

Whenever I perform acts of chivalry I do not do it out of pity for a woman, but respect

Why does being respectful toward a woman require behaving differently than you would if you were being respectful to a man?

 

[DarkRyter]

Ultimately, treating a woman differently from how you would treat a man acknowledges the concept that men are different than women, and that is sexism.

 

[marfin_]

Ultimately, treating a woman differently from how you would treat a man acknowledges the concept that men are different than women, and that is sexism.

Women are different, but equal.

 

[marfin_]

Which differences between men and women are relevant to door-opening?

none. I have had women open doors for me and have passed through, and I have opened doors for men. It is just a sign of respect.

If you only open doors for women, simply because they are women (so holding the door for a woman who's hands are full doesn't necessarily count) then it is sexist because you are treating people differently based on gender in situations where gender isn't relevant.

I'm sorry I did not specify; I hold doors open for both genders, and sometimes if I am "beaten" to the door by either gender I gladly say thank you and pass through them.

Why does being respectful toward a woman require behaving differently than you would if you were being respectful to a man?

Sorry once again I was not specific. I do that for both genders.

I still do not see why people need to waste time arguing about this instead of using their energy to fight something that IS really hurting women.

 

[marfin_]

Which differences between men and women are relevant to door-opening?

none. I have had women open doors for me and have passed through, and I have opened doors for men. It is just a sign of respect.

If you only open doors for women, simply because they are women (so holding the door for a woman who's hands are full doesn't necessarily count) then it is sexist because you are treating people differently based on gender in situations where gender isn't relevant.

I'm sorry I did not specify; I hold doors open for both genders, and sometimes if I am "beaten" to the door by either gender I gladly say thank you and pass through them.

Why does being respectful toward a woman require behaving differently than you would if you were being respectful to a man?

Sorry once again I was not specific. I do that for both genders.

I still do not see why people need to waste time arguing about this instead of using their energy to fight something that IS really hurting women.

 

[DarkRyter]

Ultimately, treating a woman differently from how you would treat a man acknowledges the concept that men are different than women, and that is sexism.

Women are different, but equal.

They're not different in any particularly meaningful way. Women eat, sleep, breathe and die. Men eat, sleep, breathe, die.

And if they were "different", they would not be "equal". 4 and 5 are different, but 5 > 4.

 

[BrassButtons]

Ultimately, treating a woman differently from how you would treat a man acknowledges the concept that men are different than women, and that is sexism.

No. Men and women are different, and acknowledging this is not sexism. However treating people differently based on gender, in situations where gender differences play no role (such as opening doors), is sexism.

I still do not see why people need to waste time arguing about this instead of using their energy to fight something that IS really hurting women.

It's an internet forum centered around videogames. Wasting time is kind of the whole point

 

[DarkRyter]

No. Men and women are different

The possible differences between a man and a woman are no greater than the variance between a man and another man, or a woman and another woman.

Men and woman aren't different beyond the superficial.

 

[marfin_]

Ultimately, treating a woman differently from how you would treat a man acknowledges the concept that men are different than women, and that is sexism.

Women are different, but equal.

They're not different in any particularly meaningful way. Women eat, sleep, breathe and die. Men eat, sleep, breathe, die.

And if they were "different", they would not be "equal". 4 and 5 are different, but 5 > 4.

several studies show that women are different in many ways... (to name a few)

Men: are usually more task-orientated, less talkative, more isolated, better ability to perceive spatial dynamics (mentally rotating objects), have a fight or flight reaction to stress, men usually have a larger muscle mass and are less perceptive to pain.

Women: Are more verbalized about their emotions, pick up body language better, better mathematical abilities, women use a "tend and befriend" tactic to fight stress, have a larger deep limbic system than men making them better caregivers, and perceive pain at a much higher scale.

I am not saying this is the list of what ALL men and ALL women are like, obviously we all know a guy is really good at math, or a women who is way buff and muscular, but this is the overall difference between men and women that is shared by the great majority. You cannot say that these differences don't matter, they distinguished how we perceive the world around us and build up our identities.

 

[marfin_]

Ultimately, treating a woman differently from how you would treat a man acknowledges the concept that men are different than women, and that is sexism.

No. Men and women are different, and acknowledging this is not sexism. However treating people differently based on gender, in situations where gender differences play no role (such as opening doors), is sexism.

I still do not see why people need to waste time arguing about this instead of using their energy to fight something that IS really hurting women.

It's an internet forum centered around videogames. Wasting time is kind of the whole point

haha, ok I guess I got a little too serious with this

kinda feel like Tavion from "Fiddler on the Roof"...
"Traaaaaadition!!!!!!! Tradition!