"Men" and "women" are not collectives. How people like to be treated depends on the individual.Random Fella said:
Poll: Is treating women in Gentlemanly way Sexist?
- Thread starter BOOM headshot65
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Chivalry can be considered as a form of sexism
If you believe that therm "sexism" is NEUTRAL (not bad or good) belief that genders differ physically and mentally, then yes treating someone differently based only on their gender is sexism
"Is it bad?" is different question
If you believe that therm "sexism" is NEUTRAL (not bad or good) belief that genders differ physically and mentally, then yes treating someone differently based only on their gender is sexism
"Is it bad?" is different question
No, it certainly isn't. Sexist implies you're doing something wrong in this day and age, and I firmly believe that being gentlemanly is polite and a service to people around you.
I always hold doors open for women and only once did I get someone angry at me for it. I once asked an etiquette teacher about this, to which she promptly responded that being gentlemanly was always the right thing to do, and if the person takes offense to it just walk on through and let them deal with it themselves. The world would be a better place with more gentlemen, and if that makes me sexist so be it.
I always hold doors open for women and only once did I get someone angry at me for it. I once asked an etiquette teacher about this, to which she promptly responded that being gentlemanly was always the right thing to do, and if the person takes offense to it just walk on through and let them deal with it themselves. The world would be a better place with more gentlemen, and if that makes me sexist so be it.
I'll echo this statement.KingsGambit said:
Strictly speaking, any heterosexual is being sexist in their choice of a partner. If gender shouldn't count for the way you treat people at all, then the only non-guilty option is to be perfectly bi-sexual.
Applying terms to situations for which the terms aren't intended is a silly practise.
I heard about it, but I've yet to meet a woman that refused or berated the help, if offered. Could be because in my country (Slovakia), people are used to lend a hand to women, if they need help. Also, nobody has told me they don't want my help. It's pretty common to hold the doors, take a heavy bag, lend a shoulder, or otherwise help someone who looks as if they could use some help.
No, sexism is the belief that there is some inherent difference between men and women, beyond their sexual organs.blackrave said:
There are undeniable statistical differences between men and women, sexism begins when people start to think, or act, as though those differences are inherent to the gender in question.
Which is bad, because it is an example of the fallacy of overgeneralisation.
Yes. And you should do it.BOOM headshot65 said:
Don't let chivalry die.
Of course, all of this depends on what you define as sexism. If it's about discrimination, then yes, but if it has to do with devaluation then no.
Sexism is a fun topic to discuss
Gender roles in the past (just a few hundred years ago) were incredibly rigid. They were born from a culture informed by religious dogma on who does what
men work the fields, butcher animals, chop wood, work leather - do hard physical stuff
women cooked, made clothes, cared for children (and popped them out...) and occationally even cleaned
then the industrial revolution came and the old man-jobs were industrialized. combine harvesters replaced men in the fields, meat packing plants and assembly-line butchering made small-scale farming unnecesary, cutting down trees and chopping wood was replaced by coal mining and leatherworking as well since people now just bought shoes.
in turn men started working in the very same factories that made all that stuff. fun
women on the other hand still largely stayed at home. But with the advent of industrial fabric production, with automated looms, you could buy cloth by the bolt! So women had to make more clothes! actual industrial clothes-making is a later invention. Oh and look at the running water, and electricity! Now the woman has to clean and vacuum and wash all the bloody time! Oh and industrial flour production means that the old home-milled rough flour is now all fine powdery fancy flour! Time to bake a shitload more fancy bread!
basically, while the male workload remained the same - the female workload of the archetypical housewife has actually gone up... sure, its kinda equalized now (kinda) but the cultural stigma are still there
look at childrens toys. girls play with dolls that engender mother instincts, while toys for boys are far more rough and tumble. What gender roles are you taught there?
I for support the idea of gentlemanly behavior. I don't see anything wrong with it. The trick is to be conscious about the signals of what you do.
Equal rights? Certainly! But when I hear about lobbyists advocating affirmative-action like laws to force women into boardrooms? No. For while I'm sure there are a lot of fatcats and whatnots in boardrooms, and that some do treat boardrooms like an all-mens clubs, then making the gender of a boardroom member and not that person's qualifications the deciding factor... No.
Gender roles in the past (just a few hundred years ago) were incredibly rigid. They were born from a culture informed by religious dogma on who does what
men work the fields, butcher animals, chop wood, work leather - do hard physical stuff
women cooked, made clothes, cared for children (and popped them out...) and occationally even cleaned
then the industrial revolution came and the old man-jobs were industrialized. combine harvesters replaced men in the fields, meat packing plants and assembly-line butchering made small-scale farming unnecesary, cutting down trees and chopping wood was replaced by coal mining and leatherworking as well since people now just bought shoes.
in turn men started working in the very same factories that made all that stuff. fun
women on the other hand still largely stayed at home. But with the advent of industrial fabric production, with automated looms, you could buy cloth by the bolt! So women had to make more clothes! actual industrial clothes-making is a later invention. Oh and look at the running water, and electricity! Now the woman has to clean and vacuum and wash all the bloody time! Oh and industrial flour production means that the old home-milled rough flour is now all fine powdery fancy flour! Time to bake a shitload more fancy bread!
basically, while the male workload remained the same - the female workload of the archetypical housewife has actually gone up... sure, its kinda equalized now (kinda) but the cultural stigma are still there
look at childrens toys. girls play with dolls that engender mother instincts, while toys for boys are far more rough and tumble. What gender roles are you taught there?
I for support the idea of gentlemanly behavior. I don't see anything wrong with it. The trick is to be conscious about the signals of what you do.
Equal rights? Certainly! But when I hear about lobbyists advocating affirmative-action like laws to force women into boardrooms? No. For while I'm sure there are a lot of fatcats and whatnots in boardrooms, and that some do treat boardrooms like an all-mens clubs, then making the gender of a boardroom member and not that person's qualifications the deciding factor... No.
lot depends on the culture and what is acceptable and traditional behaviors.
but more to the point i think its more some see chivalry as you are trying to assert that women need your help and unable to do what ever the specific thing in question.
some of it is due to knee jerk reactions but then common cutesy should be a given
but more to the point i think its more some see chivalry as you are trying to assert that women need your help and unable to do what ever the specific thing in question.
some of it is due to knee jerk reactions but then common cutesy should be a given
Yes, it is sexist and, contrary to how some people here seem to feel, being sexist is indeed a bad thing. If you are going to open a door or pull out a chair for a woman, you should do it for a man too. If you are going to give someone your jacket you should do it out of altruism, not chivalry. I personally feel very uncomfortable when I know men are treating me differently due to my sex. Sometimes I'm standing with a group of men and one of them will swear, and either he or one of his friends will then apologise to me specifically. I never say anything except "That's okay" as I'm sure they think they are being polite, but I do find it quite offensive. Seriously, fuck that shit.
I'm amazed at how many men claim that they do not care if their actions are sexist and they will continue acting like "gentlemen" towards women. I wonder if these are the same men who spew bullshit in threads related to feminism claiming that women only want equality when it suits them.
I'm amazed at how many men claim that they do not care if their actions are sexist and they will continue acting like "gentlemen" towards women. I wonder if these are the same men who spew bullshit in threads related to feminism claiming that women only want equality when it suits them.
I must be a filthy sexist pig then.
My wife simply expects me to carry the heavy things, work the job, fix the cars, and do upkeep on the house... she's perfectly capable of doing any of these things herself, but she sees it as my department, and I agree with her because she works just as hard at what she does.
Yes, I hold doors for her. But hell, I hold doors for everybody.
And to be honest with you, I'm more inclined to offer a man help with a heavy object, because I don't want to be misunderstood by a woman.
It's not that I think she'll scream "Sexist!", it's more that I don't want he to think I'm hitting on her... and that's a damned shame.
My wife simply expects me to carry the heavy things, work the job, fix the cars, and do upkeep on the house... she's perfectly capable of doing any of these things herself, but she sees it as my department, and I agree with her because she works just as hard at what she does.
Yes, I hold doors for her. But hell, I hold doors for everybody.
And to be honest with you, I'm more inclined to offer a man help with a heavy object, because I don't want to be misunderstood by a woman.
It's not that I think she'll scream "Sexist!", it's more that I don't want he to think I'm hitting on her... and that's a damned shame.
Well, I suppose, from a technical perspective, a sexist is someone who treats others differently based on their sex, which would probably make this a case of sexism, yes. However, it's really a more positive manifestation of it, not the kind of negative discrimination normally associated with the term. If anyone should be annoyed, it's all those men who are deprived of your gentlemanly behaviour due to their penis.
Of course, that looser definition of sexism isn't really very helpful, since it then goes on to implicate 99% of the world along with it. You certainly don't strike me as a sexist (cue thunder and boos from the audience), in the bad sense. I believe, on the list of things that are biased to one gender or another, having doors held open or chairs pulled out is probably way down the list.
Of course, that looser definition of sexism isn't really very helpful, since it then goes on to implicate 99% of the world along with it. You certainly don't strike me as a sexist (cue thunder and boos from the audience), in the bad sense. I believe, on the list of things that are biased to one gender or another, having doors held open or chairs pulled out is probably way down the list.