Poll: It's almost time for Skyrim, why don't I care anymore?

[LordRoyal]

a true Elder Scrolls game.

Removing classes entirely was just evolution, no one used the default classes. Everyone used a custom class.

If your talking about how the game cut and merged skills together, it's a pretty meh thing to just not buy the game over. Oblivion did the exact same thing with Morrowind's skillset. Was it a good thing? Probably not but it's still not a "Ruined FOREVER" moment

I couldn't care less about the removal of classes. I want my character to develop strengths based on how I play. To do that, you need skills for every action you do, and Bethesda keeps dumbing the games down more and more until they are just a first person hack-n-slash and not a real RPG. That's why it's a "ruined forever" moment, because I will not have fun while I'm wishing for the mechanics that made me love the game's predecessors.

EDIT: To clarify a line, in Morrowind, the only action you could do that didn't gain you skill levels was walk, but that at least gained you fatigue points. Everything else you did led to leveling up your skills. In Oblivion, you could bribe, enchant, walk, ride a horse, lockpick (very poorly), disarm traps, and buy items without ever raising your skills. Much of this was from condensing the skill list, and from what I understand in Skyrim, a lot of this is just going to get worse.

The problem with skills like Acrobatics and Athletics are they are regular functions of gameplay that people got skills without even noticing they did. Therefore putting them into the player's custom class was more of a necessity to level up quicker then it was for immersion's purposes. Lockpicking was apart of the security skill which dictated what level of locks the player could pick. Buying items was apart of Mercantile as it was in Morrowind.

The biggest thing they've done in Skyrim is just merged these skills together to just streamline the whole experience. Things like individual weapon skills have been replaced with "one handed" and "two handed", mercantile has been merged with speech (which is a pretty good idea in my opinion), self enchanting returns as it's own skill. The only skill they really "removed" was hand to hand which I personally object to, but I think it will be brought back with mods. And of course athletics and acrobatics, which was stated they removed because everyone raised them anyway since there was literally no thought process behind raising them. In Morrowind since the player walked so slowly a lot of players would simply jump from place to place because it was quicker and the player would raise their acrobatics and athletics.

I really don't see the need for the player to level up from doing everything when getting skills should have an actual thought process behind it. They aren't removing things like running, jumping etc. They are just removing the player leveling up from them pointlessly.

 

[Signa]

a true Elder Scrolls game.

Removing classes entirely was just evolution, no one used the default classes. Everyone used a custom class.

If your talking about how the game cut and merged skills together, it's a pretty meh thing to just not buy the game over. Oblivion did the exact same thing with Morrowind's skillset. Was it a good thing? Probably not but it's still not a "Ruined FOREVER" moment

I couldn't care less about the removal of classes. I want my character to develop strengths based on how I play. To do that, you need skills for every action you do, and Bethesda keeps dumbing the games down more and more until they are just a first person hack-n-slash and not a real RPG. That's why it's a "ruined forever" moment, because I will not have fun while I'm wishing for the mechanics that made me love the game's predecessors.

EDIT: To clarify a line, in Morrowind, the only action you could do that didn't gain you skill levels was walk, but that at least gained you fatigue points. Everything else you did led to leveling up your skills. In Oblivion, you could bribe, enchant, walk, ride a horse, lockpick (very poorly), disarm traps, and buy items without ever raising your skills. Much of this was from condensing the skill list, and from what I understand in Skyrim, a lot of this is just going to get worse.

The problem with skills like Acrobatics and Athletics are they are regular functions of gameplay that people got skills without even noticing they did. Therefore putting them into the player's custom class was more of a necessity to level up quicker then it was for immersion's purposes. Lockpicking was apart of the security skill which dictated what level of locks the player could pick. Buying items was apart of Mercantile as it was in Morrowind.

The biggest thing they've done in Skyrim is just merged these skills together to just streamline the whole experience. Things like individual weapon skills have been replaced with "one handed" and "two handed", mercantile has been merged with speech (which is a pretty good idea in my opinion), self enchanting returns as it's own skill. The only skill they really "removed" was hand to hand which I personally object to, but I think it will be brought back with mods. And of course athletics and acrobatics, which was stated they removed because everyone raised them anyway since there was literally no thought process behind raising them. In Morrowind since the player walked so slowly a lot of players would simply jump from place to place because it was quicker and the player would raise their acrobatics and athletics.

I really don't see the need for the player to level up from doing everything when getting skills should have an actual thought process behind it. They aren't removing things like running, jumping etc. They are just removing the player leveling up from them pointlessly.

None of which actually sounds like a better game to me. I'm half expecting all this streamlining to be a result of lazy programmers not wanting to program and test 30 different skills when they can get away with 20.

Ok look dude, I don't get why you are trying to convince me that Skyrim will be great. Some pre-release user reviews [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.322297-Skryim-is-outdated?page=1] are coming in, and it's exactly as I expected to hear. It's Oblivion with a new coat of paint. That might be enough for you, but it's exactly what I expected to hear, and that's not good enough for me to warrant a purchase.

Before posting, I tried to come up with a real-world analogy for what you are doing in this conversation that could be considered acceptable social behavior, because it's just fucking weird. The only thing I came up with was a Christian trying to convert me. I don't know how many Christians you've dealt with, but if you start throwing valid criticism at them about their religion, they usually will just stop listening and say something that reminds them why they are convinced themselves as if it's all justification they need for being Christian. I view your retort as little else, because it seems like you are just convinced that Skyrim will be the best thing ever, and you won't hear anything against it because you've convinced yourself that most negatives are really positives.

 

[LordRoyal]

None of which actually sounds like a better game to me. I'm half expecting all this streamlining to be a result of lazy programmers not wanting to program and test 30 different skills when they can get away with 20.

Ok look dude, I don't get why you are trying to convince me that Skyrim will be great. Some pre-release user reviews [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.322297-Skryim-is-outdated?page=1] are coming in, and it's exactly as I expected to hear. It's Oblivion with a new coat of paint. That might be enough for you, but it's exactly what I expected to hear, and that's not good enough for me to warrant a purchase.

Before posting, I tried to come up with a real-world analogy for what you are doing in this conversation that could be considered acceptable social behavior, because it's just fucking weird. The only thing I came up with was a Christian trying to convert me. I don't know how many Christians you've dealt with, but if you start throwing valid criticism at them about their religion, they usually will just stop listening and say something that reminds them why they are convinced themselves as if it's all justification they need for being Christian. I view your retort as little else, because it seems like you are just convinced that Skyrim will be the best thing ever, and you won't hear anything against it because you've convinced yourself that most negatives are really positives.

Um no... all I did was refute your arguments and contradict your position. It's not my fault if you choose to be ignorant toward Skyrim and refuse any future Elder Scrolls game that isn't just pandering to Morrowind fans. All your "valid critiscm" is that the game removed some skills and merged others. Not only is that a really mild concern, but the only thing they removed was acrobatics, athletics and hand-to-hand. That's it, and you immediately throw up your hands to your ears and shout "lalalalala" because you want to level up from everything you do including eating breakfast and breathing. All your criticisms are not only trivial but easily fixed within a few months of release due to the massive modding community that is going to result of Bethesda releasing their mod tools.

The game is evolving, Morrowind was nice but it's going in a different direction now.

 

[purf]

ah, Poll's options... not voting.

see, that's the kind of thing I don't understand in this day and age: I'm certainly going to get it, probably on Friday. But can I please have the possibility to just "look forward" to it, instead of "being hyped"?!

Because.. it goes like this: I expect Skyrim to be a new, revamped, up-to-date Oblivion; a new fantasy Fallout. Nothing more, nothing less. If it manages to do so, I will be pleased. Very much so - I have a soft spot for Bethesda's world-telling. And I'm fairly certain that it's going to be that kind of a game.

But... here comes the (my) catch. Maybe I'm spoiled, maybe I've lost patience with games, (maybe I've sunk too much time in Oblivion and Fallout before to invest in more of the same), but I have a feeling that Skyrim might turn out to be a bore/chore after some 17+ hours.

 

[Signa]

None of which actually sounds like a better game to me. I'm half expecting all this streamlining to be a result of lazy programmers not wanting to program and test 30 different skills when they can get away with 20.

Ok look dude, I don't get why you are trying to convince me that Skyrim will be great. Some pre-release user reviews [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.322297-Skryim-is-outdated?page=1] are coming in, and it's exactly as I expected to hear. It's Oblivion with a new coat of paint. That might be enough for you, but it's exactly what I expected to hear, and that's not good enough for me to warrant a purchase.

Before posting, I tried to come up with a real-world analogy for what you are doing in this conversation that could be considered acceptable social behavior, because it's just fucking weird. The only thing I came up with was a Christian trying to convert me. I don't know how many Christians you've dealt with, but if you start throwing valid criticism at them about their religion, they usually will just stop listening and say something that reminds them why they are convinced themselves as if it's all justification they need for being Christian. I view your retort as little else, because it seems like you are just convinced that Skyrim will be the best thing ever, and you won't hear anything against it because you've convinced yourself that most negatives are really positives.

Um no... all I did was refute your arguments and contradict your position. It's not my fault if you choose to be ignorant toward Skyrim and refuse any future Elder Scrolls game that isn't just pandering to Morrowind fans. All your "valid critiscm" is that the game removed some skills and merged others. Not only is that a really mild concern, but the only thing they removed was acrobatics, athletics and hand-to-hand. That's it, and you immediately throw up your hands to your ears and shout "lalalalala" because you want to level up from everything you do including eating breakfast and breathing. All your criticisms are not only trivial but easily fixed within a few months of release due to the massive modding community that is going to result of Bethesda releasing their mod tools.

The game is evolving, Morrowind was nice but it's going in a different direction now.

lol! I'm not the only one hearing "lalalalalala" here. And if I expected the community to "fix" Skyrim because they "fixed" Oblivion, then I'd probably already feel that Oblivion was a better game than Morrowind after mods. It isn't.

There is only so much you can do to fix a broken game, and it's in a pile of shrapnel right now as far as I'm concerned. Trying to convert me to your Skyrim religion isn't going to change that for anyone other than yourself. Seriously, just take the loss on this one. I. DO. NOT. WANT. THIS. GAME. My loss, Ok?