Poll: Justice?

[Clashero]

Pirating music is always bad,

No, it bloody well isn't.
I could go through a whole number of arguments stating why pirating music isn't bad in all cases. (In my opinion, in a huge proportion of cases), but instead I'll say this.

Don't make broad sweeping generalisatons. It isn't always bad, you can say it's usually bad.

You're getting something for free when you should be paying for it. How is that not bad?

Plus, you're hurting the industry that way. While artists make most of their money from merchandise and tours, an important percentage of their money comes from the sales of CDs and songs.

Please, do tell me. I'm mostly intrigued at how it can be sometimes OK and sometimes bad to pirate music.

 

[Arcticflame]

Pirating music is always bad,

No, it bloody well isn't.
I could go through a whole number of arguments stating why pirating music isn't bad in all cases. (In my opinion, in a huge proportion of cases), but instead I'll say this.

Don't make broad sweeping generalisatons. It isn't always bad, you can say it's usually bad.

You're getting something for free when you should be paying for it. How is that not bad?

Plus, you're hurting the industry that way. While artists make most of their money from merchandise and tours, an important percentage of their money comes from the sales of CDs and songs.

Please, do tell me. I'm mostly intrigued at how it can be sometimes OK and sometimes bad to pirate music.

Example. Of a true story, lets call this guy "Person A".

Person A illegally obtains music from Person B who also illegally obtained it. Loves the music. Downloads more of it. Loves it more. Person A never would have heard of this band because the record company are greedy swines who promote drop kick artists with mass appeal but little talent, this particular band takes some getting used to and has no radio air time because they take time to attune to, and aren't just methodically produced tripe with catchy riffs.
Person A Ends up liking band so much, they go and purchase all of the albums (all 9 of them), goes and purchases a lot of band Merchandise, T-shirts, posters, Coffee mugs, you name it.

Goes to see them live 4 times, and while there buys merchandise.
Person A is a huge fan of band now, and buys every small item that comes from the band, Live DvD's come out, Person A jumps on it. Person A even purchases tab books of band.

Person A has now spent over a Grand on a band he never even would have heard of if not for pirating. Person B has also obtained some merchandise.

Both person B and Person A have never once seen the band on any TV show, never heard them on the radio, and never heard anyone talking about them without it just being a name dropped on a forum, or mentioned in passing which they wouldn't take notice of if not for them knowing the band already.

Person A and Person B quite like piracy, and suspects this band does too, and this has happened to both of them for more than this one band.

 

[Stevedave00]

Not this argument again.

What the judge did was mean.

 

[Erzengel]

Just for the record:
The law is geared toward large scale "piraters", people who mass produce copyrighted works without paying the owner of the copyright. These are the people you would see in the flee markets with hundreds of CDs they're selling for $5 that you'd have to pay $30 for in a store.
Before the Internet, only people with proper equipment could make copies. As such, the maximum penalty of $150,000 per work makes more sense when you're dealing with people that distribute thousands of copies of that work at a significant profit margin.

It doesn't work so well when applied to people that don't infringe on copyright for profit.

So is it justice? No, no it is not.

 

[New Troll]

As I stated in the other thread, I see nothing wrong with the verdict. She should have just paid what they offered in the first place instead of trying to beat her crime. And since they're still trying to reason with her when they now have all legal right to everything she owns, I have nothing but respect for the music industry.

 

[Leorex]

justice is like a penguin, its cute, but its still a penguin.

 

[New Troll]

Bah...
I feel so sorry for the woman.
She's a mother of four.

Being a mother is why she should have never commited the crime. She put herself above her children, and to me that is just sick. In my opinion, that's the worst of her crimes.

 

[Skeleon]

80000$ per song? Are they out of their mind?
This isn't justice.
This is making an example of her to scare others.

 

[Arcticflame]

I have nothing but respect for the music industry.

I respect your opinion except for this part.
At this point I just laughed.

 

[New Troll]

I have nothing but respect for the music industry.

I respect your opinion except for this part.
At this point I just laughed.

I mean in this case. How they're so willing to cooperate with her. I don't mean as a whole. I will never forgive Paris Hilton getting her own CD.

 

[HPoirot]

Piracy is ILLEGAL, plain and simple. It doesn't matter if you think it should be or not. The fact of the matter is that she broke the law. Two juries heard her case and both found her guilty. She received her punsihment, which is fair under the law.

She had the oppurtunity to settle for $5000 or less. She declined. She decided to take advantage of her right to a trial by jury. She lost.

She is a criminal.

Justice is served.

 

[Stevedave00]

Bah...
I feel so sorry for the woman.
She's a mother of four.

Being a mother is why she should have never commited the crime. She put herself above her children, and to me that is just sick. In my opinion, that's the worst of her crimes.

Right, Because if your a parent your every WAKING MOMENT ON THIS EARTH MUST GO TO YOUR CHILDREN, LEST A GIANT SQUIRREL EATS THEM.

It's a crime as much as music artists who admit to using, or promoting the use of drugs.
Where's my judge to take Cypress hill's weed away?

 

[New Troll]

Bah...
I feel so sorry for the woman.
She's a mother of four.

Being a mother is why she should have never commited the crime. She put herself above her children, and to me that is just sick. In my opinion, that's the worst of her crimes.

Right, Because if your a parent your every WAKING MOMENT ON THIS EARTH MUST GO TO YOUR CHILDREN, LEST A GIANT SQUIRREL EATS THEM.

It's a crime as much as music artists who admit to using, or promoting the use of drugs.
Where's my judge to take Cypress hill's weed away?

Yes. If you're a parent you should put your child's future above your momentary gratification. You should never do anything to risk losing them, like commiting crime. This is like the women who bring thier infants into my work and shoplift. People are always like "Oh, but she's a mother and could now lose her child." Well I'm sorry for that but she brought it on herself if she does. And what kind of example is she teaching them? That's why I don't ever smoke in front of my children. Thier future means everything to me. Everything.

 

[Stevedave00]

Bah...
I feel so sorry for the woman.
She's a mother of four.

Being a mother is why she should have never commited the crime. She put herself above her children, and to me that is just sick. In my opinion, that's the worst of her crimes.

Right, Because if your a parent your every WAKING MOMENT ON THIS EARTH MUST GO TO YOUR CHILDREN, LEST A GIANT SQUIRREL EATS THEM.

It's a crime as much as music artists who admit to using, or promoting the use of drugs.
Where's my judge to take Cypress hill's weed away?

Yes. If you're a parent you should put your child's future above your momentary gratification. You should never do anything to risk losing them, like commiting crime. This is like the women who bring thier infants into my work and shoplift. People are always like "Oh, but she's a mother and could now lose her child." Well I'm sorry for that but she brought it on herself if she does. And what kind of example is she teaching them? That's why I don't ever smoke in front of my children. Thier future means everything to me. Everything.

that's very short sighted.
what do you really think?
Just because you do it else where they can't Smell it on you?
They can't follow you and see what you are doing?
I'm sorry she's not as dedicated as you are or as paranoid, but everyone has a right to some downtime.

 

[TriggerUnhappy]

Greedy bastards, asking $1.92 million from a 32 year old mother because she allowed people to listen to and download songs for free. Don't even realize how helpful piracy can be to the industry and how it gives bands a lot more exposure to people that might have never listened to them. Reminds me of those idiots that take down music videos from youtube because the person that uploaded it doesn't "own" a video made for the fans and public, and instead choose to deny themselves free advertising own a popular site. Still, ArticFlame put it better than I ever could:

Spoiler: Put in spoilers to make room

Example. Of a true story, lets call this guy "Person A".

Person A illegally obtains music from Person B who also illegally obtained it. Loves the music. Downloads more of it. Loves it more. Person A never would have heard of this band because the record company are greedy swines who promote drop kick artists with mass appeal but little talent, this particular band takes some getting used to and has no radio air time because they take time to attune to, and aren't just methodically produced tripe with catchy riffs.
Person A Ends up liking band so much, they go and purchase all of the albums (all 9 of them), goes and purchases a lot of band Merchandise, T-shirts, posters, Coffee mugs, you name it.

Goes to see them live 4 times, and while there buys merchandise.
Person A is a huge fan of band now, and buys every small item that comes from the band, Live DvD's come out, Person A jumps on it. Person A even purchases tab books of band.

Person A has now spent over a Grand on a band he never even would have heard of if not for pirating. Person B has also obtained some merchandise.

Both person B and Person A have never once seen the band on any TV show, never heard them on the radio, and never heard anyone talking about them without it just being a name dropped on a forum, or mentioned in passing which they wouldn't take notice of if not for them knowing the band already.

Person A and Person B quite like piracy, and suspects this band does too, and this has happened to both of them for more than this one band.

Piracy is ILLEGAL, plain and simple. It doesn't matter if you think it should be or not. The fact of the matter is that she broke the law. Two juries heard her case and both found her guilty. She received her punsihment, which is fair under the law.

She had the oppurtunity to settle for $5000 or less. She declined. She decided to take advantage of her right to a trial by jury. She lost.

She is a criminal.

Justice is served.

A criminal, for allowing songs to be downloaded by others for free? People break the law, and just because they don't listen to every rule the government sets up doesn't mean they're a criminal. Just because something's a law doesn't always mean it's right, and a person being punished for not obeying it doesn't always make it justice. Yeah, she could've just settled easy for $5000 but she didn't and was found guilty anyways, big fuckin whoop.

 

[New Troll]

that's very short sighted.
what do you really think?
Just because you do it else where they can't Smell it on you?
They can't follow you and see what you are doing?
I'm sorry she's not as dedicated as you are or as paranoid, but everyone has a right to some downtime.

I don't smoke as a father. What's there to get? I enjoy smoking clove cigarettes, but I never will as a father cause I don't want to ever jeapordize thier health or let them ever think it's okay.

And yes, everyone is entitled to some downtime, but they can do it legally without risk losing either thier children, or money that could have gone towards thier future. I still enjoy listening to music, playing video games, reading, and especially seeing movies, but I don't put any of it before my sons, or even thier mothers, or my fiance. They all come first.

 

[Lazzi]

While I strongly belive in intullectual property. I dont belvie taht any person should be made an example of when they commit a crime.

The statment of $1.2 million is out unfathumable However I am very glad to hear that they are still willing to settle in the three thousand five thousand dollar range, a price which I belive is totaly reasonable.

 

[Knonsense]

Well, our system of justice frowns upon making examples of people, so no, I don't think that it is reasonable to call this justice.

EDIT: Also, summaries are good.

 

[Lazzi]

It was justice but it wasn't fair. It was probably the harshest I've ever seen. Suprising, but not unwarranted.

I don't think you and me agree on the word "Justice", justice being inherently fair.

He doesnt understand the justice and upholding the word of the law are very different things...

 

[Lazzi]

Piracy is ILLEGAL, plain and simple. It doesn't matter if you think it should be or not. The fact of the matter is that she broke the law. Two juries heard her case and both found her guilty. She received her punsihment, which is fair under the law.

She had the oppurtunity to settle for $5000 or less. She declined. She decided to take advantage of her right to a trial by jury. She lost.

She is a criminal.

Justice is served.

Thats upholding the law, not justice.

Fining a person for comminting a fine is jsutice aslong as the fine is reasonable. i.e. it simply cover the amount lost, it could also vastly exced the amount of the intial loss but not distroy a persons life. this sudden $1.2 million dollar debt the has just been place on her has serverly limited her life. Her children are completly unable to inherit anything, she will find it near impssible to buy a new car or a new house.

Having 24 song at a cost of $2 per song (and that is being generous) suddenly turn into a huge debt of $1.2 million in by no means jsutice.