Poll: Legal responsiblity

[GothmogII]

Err...why is it I get the feeling that options one and two would only make it 100% sure he'll turn out bad? I mean okay...he did a terrible thing. But really, you don't put a god damn seven year old in prison or a mental institute for something like this!

He -should- be punished, but at the same time needs some counselling or therapy or something!

Hypothetically, if this was was your own child, that'd be your response? Put him/her away? Have them lobotomised? Christ...some of you are just....grrrgh! But I can't tell if half of you are actually serious...you'd honestly do that to your own child? Or any child for that matter? Or am I reading to much into heated posts positing just awful solutions to this based on their anger over what happened to the animals?

 

[AntiAntagonist]

Ask anyone who studies child development and they will tell you that it's actually quite common for young boys to commit violence against animals. Not everyone does, but many do. You people calling the kid a sick twisted fuck and a horrible person need to get off your high horses and realize that kids do this all the time - who never burned an ant with a magnifying glass as a kid?

I've been evaluated at various times and spend much time on self-reflection. I agree that elevating oneself due to the the mistake of another is unneeded.

The other problem is that "kids do it all the time" isn't a good reason to let the kid continue doing it. The kid has to be properly informed that what he did is wrong. I figured that's what this debate is about. I don't agree with Khell's opinion that the kid should be shot, but I choose not to debate it because he has presented similar opinions for [URL=""http://www.sillof.com/images/Customs/Ventures/c-vb-underbeit.jpg]punishment[/URL] on other matters.

 

[AntiAntagonist]

Err...why is it I get the feeling that options one and two would only make it 100% sure he'll turn out bad? I mean okay...he did a terrible thing. But really, you don't put a god damn seven year old in prison or a mental institute for something like this!

He -should- be punished, but at the same time needs some counselling or therapy or something!

Hypothetically, if this was was your own child, that'd be your response? Put him/her away? Have them lobotomised? Christ...some of you are just....grrrgh! But I can't tell if half of you are actually serious...you'd honestly do that to your own child? Or any child for that matter? Or am I reading to much into heated posts positing just awful solutions to this based on their anger over what happened to the animals?

I tried to explain before- institutionalization seems harsh, the reason I voted that was it was the only option anywhere close to "psychological evaluation". Besides that I doubt the kid would be under the same rules as an adult or adolescent that would be admitted.

I know someone personally who was admitted. The kid was violent in his teens and had military obsessions. He had been unstable for a long time and despite the scariness of it he needed to be evaluated. It's nowhere near as bad as going to prison, and delivers more individualized care.

EDITED for grammar

 

[GothmogII]

Err...why is it I get the feeling that options one and two would only make it 100% sure he'll turn out bad? I mean okay...he did a terrible thing. But really, you don't put a god damn seven year old in prison or a mental institute for something like this!

He -should- be punished, but at the same time needs some counselling or therapy or something!

Hypothetically, if this was was your own child, that'd be your response? Put him/her away? Have them lobotomised? Christ...some of you are just....grrrgh! But I can't tell if half of you are actually serious...you'd honestly do that to your own child? Or any child for that matter? Or am I reading to much into heated posts positing just awful solutions to this based on their anger over what happened to the animals?

I tried to explain before- institutionalization seems harsh, the reason I voted that was it was the only option anywhere close to "psychological evaluation". Besides that I doubt the kid would be under the same rules as an adult or adolescent that would be admitted.

I know someone personally who was admitted. The kid was violent in his teens and had military obsessions. He had been unstable for a long time and despite his the scariness of it he needed to be evaluated. It's nowhere near as bad as going to prison, and delivers more individualized care.

Mhm...I guess I can agree. They probably would segregate the children & the adults, and I suppose would, depending on where have rather modern facilities. However, I've heard some horror stories too. The college I went to was for people with a wide variety of disabilities, from phobias to schizophrenia, speech disorders, the wheelchair bound, the blind and deaf. Aspergers & social phobia for myself. Anyway, as you'd expect, many people there had had first hand experience of 'care' services, and many of the stories weren't pretty. One girl for instance related her experience on a year in an adult mental institution, she was 13 at the time, but, due to lack of space anywhere else she had little choice in the matter, what followed was a story of abusive staff, other patients masturbating in the hall, and the general hell that it was.

I know I shouldn't look for the worst possible context, I mean, I did also know people who were genuinely helped by their time in care, and didn't have to suffer anything like the above. But...I'm still quite leery of it all...

 

[stompy]

I'm going with root's plan: get him some psychological help, get him tested, but don't institutionalise him. He did something wrong, but he's still got a life in front of him, and if we can help him now, then he can be a useful contributor to society.

 

[kanyatta]

Try their parents as being 100% responsible for the child's actions. What kind of parents just let their 7 year old wander around in the middle of the night to do God-knows-what?

 

[Break]

Imitation Saccharin. Stop it. Now. Fuck the fact that the animals died. I don't care. That's not the point. He beat them with a rock until they stopped struggling, and then threw them to an alligator. We're not talking about whether or not he was right to feed the alligator. The morality of the meat industry is not in question here. The kid is a sociopath. He broke into a public zoo, and violently abused the animals. That is not something a straight-thinking individual does. That is not something that can be handwaved with a slap on the wrist and an "oh, kids will be kids". He broke the law, and showed a malevolent disregard for the pain of several living beings.

Moreover. Saying shit like "it's his dog" and following it up with "if it doesn't hurt anyone, let them do what they like" is goddamn hypocrisy. You think that pain is a human invention? Or is it that it's fine because he owns the dog? Please tell me that I've completely misunderstood you, because I do not want to think that somebody could be so... Whatever. Explain yourself.

And Conquerworm. Yes, it's lovely that you've discovered the joys of nihilism, and learned to look beyond the fairytale notions of good and evil. But now you need to realise how little that means in the real world. You're ignoring the actual issue. Fuck whether he was right or wrong. He broke the law. At his age, he should've learned that society would not stand idle if he breaks into public property and abuses the animals. If he is not taught this, he will become dangerous. Even more dangerous.

That kid needs therapy.

 

[Bored Tomatoe]

Alrighty, another one for the mental institution then...

 

[Eyclonus]

Woah! I didn't realise my thread would get this heated with Veg-hating and the dichotomy of Good and Evil.

 

[Bored Tomatoe]

Saccharin, now you're just being absurd, and I'm done arguing with someone who thinks a hamburger is equally evil compared to bashing a creature over the head with a rock.

Alrighty, another one for the mental institution then...

Lolz, that doesn't work here. In Alberta, if you're sane enough to ask to be let out of the nutbin, they legally must release you. Exceptions for those locked in the padded cells instead of jail (criminal wackos) but they can't prosecute the kid, he could just walk here. I hope for the sake of all my Aussie friends that their loonybin laws are a little more "keep em locked up" than my province's.

But the kid is obviously a sociopath, If not a mental institution, he should have to see a manditory psychologist...and be on meds....and be watched by the police...

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

Saccharin, now you're just being absurd, and I'm done arguing with someone who thinks a hamburger is equally evil compared to bashing a creature over the head with a rock.

The systemic raising, killing, skinning, and butchering of mammalian creatures, who spent the majority of their lives so close together they can't move, is so plainly a neutral activity compared to the concentrated evil that is beating them over the head the moment you find them.

Sorry, I was confused about that for a moment.

 

[Eyclonus]

Unfortunatly Khell we closed a lot of those institutions down a few years back, naturally the prisons are way overcrowded and those in desparate need of psych care wander the streets. ITs bad in the schools too as we have a lot of kids who clearly have a psychosis (Stabbing a kid with a pencil till it lodges in his leg, sure thats not a proper sign, but doing it repeatedly in the same week?) or have severe autism are pretty much running around schoolyards breaking things and the teachers aen't allowed to do something like say kick the kid out.

I envy Britain's Mental Health Act, we can only really act after the third or fourth incident.

The systemic raising, killing, skinning, and butchering of mammalian creatures, who spent the majority of their lives so close together they can't move, is so plainly a neutral activity compared to the concentrated evil that is beating them over the head the moment you find them.

Sorry, I was confused about that for a moment.

Because slaughterhouse workers don't walk out and start carving humans? Because they rarely if ever get raging hard-ons while dismembering cows? If you going to criticise us for using the tradition argument well go jump off a cliff because our species evolved to sentience by eating meat on the side of what was mostly a vegetation diet. I don't eat excessive amounts of meat, but I do because eating meat is more natural than bloody tofu.

 

[AmericanWarMachine]

While its one thing to sneak a mouse into the zoo and feed it to the lizard, scaling a fence and stealing countless animals to feed them to an alligator is absolutely insane. This kid needs counseling.

 

[Amnestic]

Saccharin, now you're just being absurd, and I'm done arguing with someone who thinks a hamburger is equally evil compared to bashing a creature over the head with a rock.

The systemic raising, killing, skinning, and butchering of mammalian creatures, who spent the majority of their lives so close together they can't move, is so plainly a neutral activity compared to the concentrated evil that is beating them over the head the moment you find them.

Sorry, I was confused about that for a moment.

Under the law, yes, actually. To boil it down, animals are property. Those for the slaughter are, well, slaughtered. Those for display are put on display. The child interfered with this and destroyed someone else's property amounting to thousands of dollars worth of losses, not to mention admin costs organising replacements to be found, brought in and raised.

Your own admittance with:

It is his dog. He may do with it as he pleases.

States that the slaughterhouse owners can do whatever they want with their animals. However, the child cannot do anything he wants to the zoo animals because they do not belong to him.

Thanks for nullifying your own points.

On a personal level I don't agree with what the child did because I see a moral difference between slaughterhouses and zoo animals, but to be honest that's irrelevant to my argument.

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

Because slaughterhouse workers don't walk out and start carving humans?

Where are you getting the parallel from in the article?

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

The child interfered with this and destroyed someone else's property

This is not, nor ever has been, something I have spoken contrary to.

Thanks for nullifying your own points.

I never made any points about the article. I merely pointed out the hypocrisy of others.
I did later state my opinion on the right to the pursuit of happiness however.

 

[Eyclonus]

Where are you getting the parallel from in the article?

Where are you getting the parallel about the beef industry? You start comparing what that kid did to an abattoir, so I point out the fact that the butcher is an assassin to the kid's crazed gunman....

 

[Amnestic]

I merely pointed out the hypocrisy of others.

I confess I may have you misunderstood, but as I can tell (and admittedly it's 3AM so perhaps I can't) You are stating that people are being hypocritical for holding some life (that of zoo animals) above others (that of animals bred for food)? Please tell me that's not your position, because that's so fundamentally flawed I don't know where to begin.