Poll: Let's play Medieval 2: Total War

[Bvenged]

Wow - freaky. I saw this game on my shelf 2 weeks ago and thought "Why the hell not? I haven't played it in YEARS!" I completed it not too long before seeing this thread.


Sorry, wall of text inbound:

I played as England, took the British isles and dominated France. The game ended on turn 212 with 52 territories (45 needed) where me empire stretched from the Strait of Gibraltar to the borders of Russia and deep into the Hungarian heartland; and from Denmark to Sicily, owning everything in between.

Not to mention owning 3 American cities/territories as well. Damn those took a long time to get to, besides the fact that the Aztecs are a nightmare to beat out of a city. Oh, and Jerusalem for victory condition too. The only reason it took 212 turns was because I wanted to get to America. I could have finished the game by turn 190. I also manually played out most battles scenarios for personal tactical advantage and fun.

I voted Byzantine, I might play them myself. they're in an awkward position but politically and diplomatically well-off. For western civilisations the church is nothing but a pain in the arse. I got booted out for annihilating France, then got reconciled. Then the same story for Portugal. Reconciled again for being a kiss-arse. Then I got booted out again for annihilating HRE and Milan in one swooping move. I just ignored the church after that and even became a crusade target from it.

If you can rid yourself of religion early on, then build your populations to live without the church it would be an easier game. I had to put up with constant revolts and a high military requirement in each city because of religious unrest for the remainder of the game (100 turns, a good 50 hours +)

I'm planning on playing Rome or maybe the original Shogun next

I would like to see you take up an Italian state, Byzantine or Scotland overall. They would be a fun challenge and play quite different from the starting factions. I'm glad to see this game isn't dead and that I'm not the only one playing it.

[hr]

Average player/pro tips:
Have 3 assassins for each larger region of land (modern-day country sizes: Spain, France, Germany, etc.). one for sabotage, one for assassinations and a spare balanced in case one of the others gets KO'd. You can wreak a lot of havoc by killing off opposing forces family members and blowing up castle/city balista towers the same turn you plan to invade.

it's also extremely helpful to have a spy in each of the cities neighbouring your faction as early as possible - so when you do come to invade, their subterfuge should have ranked up over time to full-ish and they will almost always oven the gates for you. This is a MUST for castles if you wish to save some military card slots from siege equipment, or just save guys from the slaughter at the walls itself.

But don't worry about either of these until about turn 25 - or where most rebels are dead, Mongol's start invading and your borders are pressed against other factions (early-mid game onwards).

 

[Gypsybob]

Scotland can be fairly good late game once you have the Noble Pikemen and Heavy Pike Militia.
Pike units are a ***** to learn how to use though, I still can't pull it off most of the time.

Archers are bollocks and the cavalry are also quite crap. A very infantry based army that would require a Total War genius to use correctly.



To answer the poll, France.

France is very exciting to play, the challenge of invading England and standing up to the Longbowmen, the HRE are a worthy enemy. Spain to the south will also test your military units. Just make sure you murder the shit out of Milan quite early because those guys will wreck your shit if you don't keep your thumb on them

 

[Muspelheim]

Seems Poland won't be the lucky one. Better luck next time, buddy.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/144/835/1309798805002.gif

"Kurwa."

Personally, I'd suggest Venice. It'd be interesting to see how a small, naval city-state would fare in the merciless winds of history. And honestly, it'd be pretty impressive if you ended up with most of Europe under you. Plus, Italians. What's not to love?

Good luck, by the way, it looks like an interesting Let's Play in the making you've got here!

 

[Saladfork]

Alright, looks like England just barely edged out Denmark.

I'll post part one... at some point this evening. Probably. In the meantime, thanks for voting, everyone.

Scratch that, looks like the Danes won. Part one is going to be a little longer coming, I guess.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Well, it looks like it's up to either Denmark or England. I'll have give the poll a little more time to break the tie before I start the game.

Also, I don't usually bother with getting my own guys into the papacy, opting instead to either just kiss up to him or ignore him when needed. Obviously I try to avoid excommunication, but given the choice between that or taking lucrative land, I tell him to shove it.

That said, I might try a little harder in the college of cardinals for this game, if only to make things a little more interesting.

For the record, I'm planning on recording battles and emmbedding the youtube videos here. I won't do that for every battle (like when I outnumber the guy 10 to 1 or something), just the larger and more interesting ones.

Go for Denmark. England is vanilla as vanilla gets in TW:M2, and are terribly easy besides. The AI is so worthless at launching naval assaults that once you've consolidated the British Isles the game is fundamentally over. Which usually happens swiftly due to Scotland being so weak, as you point out in your original post.

I highly recommend the Stainless Steel mod for Medieval 2. It's leaps and bounds better than vanilla.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Scotland can be fairly good late game once you have the Noble Pikemen and Heavy Pike Militia.
Pike units are a ***** to learn how to use though, I still can't pull it off most of the time.

Archers are bollocks and the cavalry are also quite crap. A very infantry based army that would require a Total War genius to use correctly.



To answer the poll, France.

France is very exciting to play, the challenge of invading England and standing up to the Longbowmen, the HRE are a worthy enemy. Spain to the south will also test your military units. Just make sure you murder the shit out of Milan quite early because those guys will wreck your shit if you don't keep your thumb on them

Scotland's armies are slow as brick walls, but they're just as tough. The key is to make them come to you. To this end, you have Scotland's infantry. Highland Nobles aren't the strongest greatsword unit in the game, but you can get a shit ton of them, and they'll flatten enemy infantry on the charge.

Lure the enemy into your pike wall with some sacrificial Highland Rabble, and once they're stick in the pikes, counter charge with the nobles. Utterly destroys other armies.

 

[Alssadar]

I would go Denmark--no bias for I completed the Brittania (Norway, but they're the exact same) and Teutons campaigns with them.
As a start, Viking raiders are effective infantry units, easy to mass and are harder to break than conscript militia. As for huscarls, mounted or otherwise, they make cheap knight-replacements that can serve until your empire grows large enough to finally accommodate them. The Dane's range support is basic, though properly shielded against ranged opponents, and field a good range of artillery that can crack a wall at a distance, though their cavalry isn't the strongest. The latter isn't much of a matter to me, as I mainly just ushered four units or so of mounted huscarls in the backs of their lines with my general as the Northmen extracted their toll upon the enemy.
However, despite how good they are, Sword Staff militia aren't good for open fields--they move as slow as molasses, but when they get to the fight--dear god, how light infantry and cavalry cower.

Enjoy sowing fear into the hearts of the foolish kings about you, my lord. For Prince Hamlet, and Denmark!

 

[BLAHwhatever]

How can you not list Scotland?
Well then, Vikings it is. I vote for Denmark. Make 'em taste the steel of your axes and smite their heads with your Paladins holy wrath (and maces)

 

[Saladfork]

So here's part 1. It's a very small one, mostly because I was already 8 turns into England before I checked back and saw that Denmark had pulled ahead.

...And now I see that England has taken the lead again, but whatever. We're playing the Danes now.

Anyway, here we go. Part 1: The Danes take Hamburg

Spoiler

So this is Europe at the start of the game.
(If you're confused about why the English start out with some French territory, check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_conquest_of_England)

And this here is Denmark. We start with a single settlement, but we've got some room to expand before we have to fight the Germans. I'll be more aggressive on our southern border, seeing as we're racing the HRE to get them, whereas the only land route to Norway is through our territory.

You may have noticed we have some people standing around the map. These guys are agents, noncombat units with different roles.

This is a priest. He converts the population of the region he's in to Catholicism, which reduces religious strife (assuming you?re a Catholic nation, of course). He can also denounce heretics (who can cause unrest) and get into the College of Cardinals. With luck (and no small amount of political manoeuvring), he could even become Pope! Having a Dane in the papacy would not only be hilarious, but also quite helpful, as he would be very receptive to the needs and wishes of his mother country.

We don't have a diplomat yet, but they can request trade agreements, alliances, military access, payments, transfer of cities, etc. The AI in medieval 2 is, unfortunately, very stubborn, and will often refuse your demands even if you?re within one turn of wiping them out, which reduces the diplomat's usefulness somewhat.

This is a princess. Their purpose is twofold; One, they can conduct diplomacy with other nations, similar to a diplomat, and Two, they can be married to a noble of your own nation (Adding him to the royal family and gaining him as a general) or to a member of another faction (creating a diplomatic tie through marriage). They can also attempt to lure generals away from other nations and? "Entice" them to join ours, but any general we get this way is very likely to have a low loyalty rating and be therefore unreliable anyway.

Lastly, this here is a merchant. They can be quite useful for generating extra revenue, which they do by sitting over a resource on the map. Somewhat counter intuitively, he gains points in his finance ability by having a monopoly over a resource over a certain amount of turns. Merchants can also attempt to seize each other?s assets and leave the other bankrupt.

The first thing we'll do is lay siege to this castle immediately to the south. If we lose this to the HRE, we?ll be in trouble.

In order to breach a settlement with walls, you need siege weapons. You can have permanent siege weapons like catapults or ballistae, but if you don't have those then you have to build some on the spot. Here, I queued up a battering ram, though I could choose not use it and opt instead to wait out the defenders until they?re forced to either sally forth or surrender.

Let?s also get a land clearance in Denmark proper, so as to improve our farming.

NEXT TURN

Alrighty, time to take Hamburg. Ordinarily I wouldn't bother recording a battle this small and frankly unfair, but I might as well with this one, seeing as it's the first.


Nothing special. I didn't really use any sort of tactics here beyond "go kill those guys" since I outnumbered them badly enough that it really didn?t matter. Later on, against the HRE especially, I'll probably have to be a little more tactical in my attacks.

When you take a settlement, you get these three options. Occupy gives you a very small amount of money from looting with no building damage or population loss. Sack gives you a lot of money, but damages all the buildings pretty badly and kills some of the populace. Exterminate kills off a large amount of the population and does some building damage ? useful for when you don?t have the force to prevent uprising or rebellion. I'll occupy Hamburg because I need the place up and running ASAP.

So now we have two settlements. Not a bad start. We've still got some unclaimed land in which to expand, but it's only a matter of time before we have to fight the Holy Roman Empire. With luck, they'll be excommunicated by that time, but if not, we're probably going to lose favour with the pope, which could be a big problem later on. For now, though, we'll just focus on building up out economic and military strength.

So, any opinions? Should I favour east or west? Should I try to avoid a fight with the HRE as long as possible, or try to take them out early?

Also, on a side note, what are your favourite medieval-era games?

 

[pastureofmuppets]

Scotland the Brave FTW!!! I spammed the Heavy infantry 2 handed claymore units and the quik Highlander lights units and pwned the world, from the british Isles to the Nile (thnx to the popes brutal crusade demand). Of your options, i'd prob go spain, and smash north africa quik. Then with a decent navy the world is your oyster

 

[pastureofmuppets]

Scotland the Brave FTW!!! I spammed the Heavy infantry 2 handed claymore units and the quik Highlander lights units and pwned the world, from the british Isles to the Nile (thnx to the popes brutal crusade demand). Of your options, i'd prob go spain, and smash north africa quik. Then with a decent navy the world is your oyster

 

[BlackStar42]

I vote that you take Stettin and Thorn next, especially Thorn because it'll cripple Poland and because Thorn's a really good castle. I'd avoid tangling with the HRE until you've built up your army. Have you tried using the Stainless Steel mod?

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I suggest striking east. Poland can get pretty nasty if they're left unchallenged, and they have some nice castles along the coast. This will give you a longer border with the HRE on their north, as well as an early warning gauge for when the Mongols arrive.

To your left, let France and England tear each other apart like they always do. With you putting pressure on the HRE, and France growing to their west, the HRE will crumble pretty fast. When it does, swoop south and grab as much territory as you can to get your economy pumping.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

I like playing as Sicily. Admittedly, they don't really get the best units of any kind in the game, but the starting position is so fucking good you can get well ahead before anyone can really threaten you. You can sail off and claim most of Africa and the islands in the med, you can easily get involved in Iberia or the Holy Land too, and Rome acts a good shield for invasion, provided you stay on their good side.

I highly recommend the Stainless Steel mod for Medieval 2. It's leaps and bounds better than vanilla.

Doesn't that need Kingdoms? I never got around to buying that...

 

[el derpenburgo]

No offence but Total War games (any strategy games for that matter) are horrible games to let's play, assuming you're talking about the regulation video let's play format. There are long stretches of doing repetitive things on the strat map and battles against the AI are not fun to watch. Total War especially so since there is no discernible storyline. The fun and interesting part of these games is the RPG element, like watching characters become great generals or building a big city from nothing, not the battles or the strategy, since Total War is not particularly hard (there, I said it).

I strongly recommend you consider a picture book AAR dealio instead of a video since there you can write some creative filler instead of showing us the strat map 80% of the time. You know, like historical fiction. Dramatise and embellish the events, make up some family tensions or whatever. I love those.

Spoiler

I do it all the time

edit: Ok nevermind, I see you're not recording the strat map, which is a good idea. I still contend you do a bit of creative writing though

 

[Saladfork]

Have you tried using the Stainless Steel mod?

Actuallly, I did hear how good it apparantly was, so I tried finding it, but after the third link I tried 404'd on me I gave up.

 

[BlackStar42]

Have you tried using the Stainless Steel mod?

Actuallly, I did hear how good it apparantly was, so I tried finding it, but after the third link I tried 404'd on me I gave up.

If it helps you any, this is where I got it. The torrent links seem to work fine. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=417435

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Actuallly, I did hear how good it apparantly was, so I tried finding it, but after the third link I tried 404'd on me I gave up.

I highly recommend persistence in tracking it down. Stainless Steel added hundreds of hours to the game for me, and really plays like Medieval 2.5. It's borderline essential. I can't even look at vanilla now.

 

[Saladfork]

Have you tried using the Stainless Steel mod?

Actuallly, I did hear how good it apparantly was, so I tried finding it, but after the third link I tried 404'd on me I gave up.

If it helps you any, this is where I got it. The torrent links seem to work fine. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=417435

Oh, cool, thanks. I'll try that out when I finish this LP.

 

[Saladfork]

Part 2: In which embarassing losses are had

Here we are. In this part, we'll be expanding further into rebel territory, and getting our first chat with soe other factions.

Spoiler

So, here we are again.

We?ll be focusing more on Eastern expansion that Western for now, partly to avoid fighting France, but mostly to keep Poland away from our doorstep.

Ah, there seems to be an Imperial army in our new territory. They were probably trying to take Hamburg before we did. Hopefully, they?ll turn around rather than start a fight with us right now, but just in case?

We?ll train up some town guard at Arhus and send some of the current garrison to reinforce Hamburg.

As you can see, Hamburg itself isn?t quite ready to begin training an army itself. In case you?re curious, the way that unit recruitment in Medieval 2 is that when you have the proper building in a settlement (archery range, stables, etc) you get a new unit pool in the unit tab. Over time (the number of turns depending on the unit type), the unit number increases, which means you can train another one of the unit (which reduces the number again). You can train a certain amount of units at a time, indicated by the off-colour squares on the left of the queue. Hamburg can train 3 units at a time, though we have no units to train so that point is rather moot at the moment.

Well, that was long winded. Let?s see how friendly that army proves to be.

Hmm. Well, they didn?t attack, but they didn?t leave, either. That might mean they?re waiting, either for me to take the army in Hamburg somewhere else, or for reinforcements. Still, Hamburg shouldn?t be too difficult to defend against these guys right now, so I won?t worry about it too much and move on to Magneburg.

In the meantime, I?m building infantry buildings in Hamburg and economic buildings in Arhus. We?ll have a better, more professional army soon enough.

NEXT TURN

Still there. They?ll probably be here for awhile. It?s a good thing we?re at peace; when an enemy army sits in your territory long enough, they cause devastation to the countryside which impairs farming output and can take some time to repair.

Alrighty, siege time again. Luckily, Magneburg is a less developed castle than Hamburg, with only wooden defences, so it should be easier to take.

Building our shit again. It?s gonna take 2 turns to build it all, though, so perhaps we should find some extra manpower.

This is the mercenary screen. We hire two units of crossbowmen and one of spearmen, who are going to help us build faster, and when we attack, are going to be the first guys into the fight (since I want to save as many of my soldiers as possible, seeing as I currently lack the facilities to easily replace them). Mercenaries can be quite useful in a pinch, but I don?t recommend keeping them around very long because they cost an arm and a leg in upkeep. A mercenary army can drain your treasury very quickly (unless you?re on a crusade? but we?ll get to that later).

NEXT TURN

Our market in Arhus is finished, so now I?m going to improve the farmland some more.

And it seems the Poles have an interest in Magneburg as well. They may decide to attack us after we take it, but with our mercenaries leading the charge on our attack, our proper army should be capable of dealing with them.

Battle numero dos. Again, we outmatch the defenders quite badly, so this isn?t going to be much of a contest. I?m going to bother recording this one.

Ah, bummer. The defenders managed to destroy our siege tower and our ram with fire arrows before we could get in. Should?ve built more, I suppose.

This is going to be a problem. Since we lost, our army retreats from the castle. The Poles have the strength to take it, and we don?t have the move points to stop them. I?d rather not fight them at this juncture, so if they do attack, I?ll leave them alone for now and head to the North instead. Of course, this means the Poles are going to be more of a problem later on, but we?ll burn that bridge when we get to it.

NEXT TURN

Hey, look, some Schmuck wants to marry the princess. Sorry, buddy, my definition of "a suitable prince" is considerably more Machiavellian than yours apparently is. REJECTED

And yes, the Poles have capitalized on my failure. No worries, once the HRE is down for the count, Poland is likely going to be next.

Next target: Stettin.

Well, whaddya know. That?s likely to change soon enough, but nice to know for now.

NEXT TURN

Before we fight again, I?m sending my princess to negotiate a trade deal with the French. I imagine they could use the extra income as much as I could.

Here?s my offer. The map information isn?t really necessary, but I like having my map coloured in anyway.

The French apparently weren?t happy with it, though, so here?s their counter-offer. 50 florins isn?t very much (650, the total payment, would get me one unit of huscarls) so I see no harm in accepting this.

Also, as a result of successfully negotiating a deal, the princess ?levels up? in a way, gaining a new trait which increases her charm (which in turn increases the likelihood of her propositions being accepted).

So that?s that done. Now let?s get to the conquering.

Stettin is just a motte and bailey, so the only weapon we need (or can build, for that matter) is a battering ram. We?ll build 2 and attack next turn. Speaking of?

NEXT TURN

Ah, the nobility has a mission for us. Missions can come from various sources, from the nobles to the guilds to the pope, but the nobility is usually the most preferable source because they have no penalty for ignoring them (whereas the pope may excommunicate you if you fail him enough) but have lucrative rewards. Our princess is doing a good job with diplomacy so far, so let?s send her to Milan.

Now, let?s take Stettin (and try not to let them set fire to our rams this time).

I intend to tear down this castle and build a town instead (we need a stronger economic base) so I decide to sack the place.

Also, since a significant part of this land is out of the sight radius of the town, I?m going to build a watchtower so we can see if A) any brigands spring up or B) The Poles try to invade from the East.

Anyway, we?re out of money for now so I can?t build anything else. NEXT TURN

First off, let?s see if we can?t get Milan to trade with us too.

And they accept with no fuss! Hurrah!

The nobles are happy with us too, and hire some town militia for us. Not exactly legion material, but I won?t say no to free troops.

And Stettin?s castle is getting torn down now. We won?t need it anyway, since Hamburg is already better developed.

Also, these mercenaries are fired. Our remaining troops can hold the town well enough for now, and I?ve got fresh men waiting for the prince at Hamburg to push westward with so he?ll be leaving his current army behind for now.

NEXT TURN

Ah, the pope wants us to start converting the populace of Stettin to Catholicism.

We can see here that Stettin?s current religious makeup is 85% Pagan, 10% Orthodox and 5% Heretic. Our priest is going to have his work cut out for him.

Nothing else interesting going on. NEXT TURN

Oh dear. Looks like someone?s in deep shit.

And it?s a rebel city, too. Ah, well. Not our problem at the moment.

Army?s still enroute to the western rebel town. Ho hum.

NEXT TURN

Another suitor for the princess. This guy?s a lot more qualified than the last guy, though is a little old. Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

Eh, why not. We need more generals anyway.

Stiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill enroute.

2 TURNS LATER?

Ah, good. The prince is going to need to produce an heir anyway, may as well give him as early a start as possible.

Immediately after his wedding, though, it?s time for the prince to go to war once again. The garrison of Antwerp actually looks pretty strong; it may be prudent to wait them out in order to save men for the Germans. Of course, if I do that, the chances of the last two rebel lands in sight being taken by France or the HRE is higher.

Anyway, that?s it for now. END TURN

Ah, good, the pope is apparently satisfied with our efforts in Stettin. Now would be a good time to check out the Pope?s political opinions, actually.

As expected, he holds the Holy Roman Empire in low regard. His favourites are apparently Spain and Hungary; fortunately we won?t be fighting either anytime soon.

Our attacking army is a little low on archers, so some mercenaries might be helpful.

This fight?s gonna be a little less lopsided than the others, and since this?ll probably be the last one in part 2, I?m going to record it. This time, my men are higher quality soldiers rather than militia, so they should match up well against the defenders.


Hrm. That was a little embarrassing. As you can see, sieges can get quite bloody for the attacker. It?s quite possible for a defending army outnumbered 5 to 1 to still win a crushing victory if the city defenses are impressive enough.

Anyway, I decide to sack the city to recoup the cost of taking it. Looks like the men are going to have to head back to Hamburg to get back to 100% strength.

Still, despite the cost, we?ve taken a moderately prosperous town, which is going to be quite helpful in building our little (for now) empire.

And, just to show everyone where we?re at by the end of this part?

END TURN

This is the end of turn report. On the bottom is our relative standing with the other factions. The named faction has the highest score in that category, and the number is our score in comparison to theirs (in percent).

So, we?ve doubled our territory in this part, and built a better trained and equipped army. I also improved farming and trade (which I didn?t show because it?s uninteresting) in order to help pay for it all.

Apparently the Nobles think that?s a good start.

So what do you guys think? Play it safe and continue taking the rebel towns? Or is it time to fight the Holy Roman Empire?