Poll: looking for RPGs with good tactical combat

[pirate64]

Umm well if you like jrpg's that are total grindfests that you'll spend many hours playing just to level everyone in your squad by 5 levels or so then I'd say get one of the disgaea games. I say any as they are all good from what I hear even though the only one I have is disgaea 2 dark hero days. (sprites on pic <<<)

 

[Cheesepower5]

Shin Megami Tensei series, particularly Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga. Devil Survivor IS a Tactics game.

Final Fantasy Tactics, it's actually quite challenging. If you enjoy that, V/5 would be a good game for you from the main series. If you don't mind the fact that the storyline is quite literally a joke. And grinding can eliminate the difficulty, but that's entirely your choice. II/2 is hard as well, but it kinda sucks nowadays.

Baldur's Gate 2(PC version.) Picture Dragon Age. Now picture it harder. Now picture it harder with D&D core rules. Actually don't, that requires too much thought. Just play the game.

Baten Kaitos Origins. It's like Final Fantasy meats Yu-Gi-Oh on steroids. For the Gamecube.

Warcraft III Reign of Chaos/Frozen Throne. As long as you don't use cheats.

I could go on.

 

[Heart of Darkness]

Not a fan of jay arrr pee gees then I suppose?

I'm willing to give them a go, if someone can recommend one with tactical positioning and depth, that cannot simply be grinded into becoming too easy.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "tactical positioning and depth," but you may want to give Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor a go. It's a strategy RPG for the DS, and, while it's not the same type of tactics that you'd use in HoMM, it's far from easy. It even "penalizes" grinding on the first playthrough by having weaker monsters drop little EXP. Plus it has a really interesting plot.

EDIT: Dammit, ninja'd by the guy above me.

 

[Draithx]

If you don't have anything against japanese games:
-Battle Moon Wars, a game that follows mostly the SRW ruleset but has characters from a few popular Visual Novels instead of robots. The story will probably be a bit hard to follow if you haven't played said VN's though. Is almost fully translated.

-Eien no Aselia, this game has some VN elements which can make the story part between battles feel really long. It's closer to HoMM then WC3, except your squad's fight automatically in combats. The non-ero version is fully translated.

There are also tons of good SRPG's out for the GBA (Fire Emblem, SRW, Tactics Ogre) if you got one or don't mind using an emulator.

 

[veloper]

Not a fan of jay arrr pee gees then I suppose?

I'm willing to give them a go, if someone can recommend one with tactical positioning and depth, that cannot simply be grinded into becoming too easy.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "tactical positioning and depth," but you may want to give Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor a go.

Tactical positioning means that when the party gets in range of enemies, the view changes to a hex grid or squares (or even a continuous terrain) and you can move your toons aswell as choose their targets. Standing behind allies or obstacles may grant cover, that sort of thing.

As for depth, let's just say I prefer it when the optimal strategy isn't just always picking your most powerful ability.

It's a strategy RPG for the DS, and, while it's not the same type of tactics that you'd use in HoMM, it's far from easy. It even "penalizes" grinding on the first playthrough by having weaker monsters drop little EXP.

That sounds good though.

 

[veloper]

try fallout: tactics. its for the RTS fans in the fallout fanbase.

I nearly forgot I actually own that game, but I've hardly given it a chance yet.

Which FOT gameplay setting is superior in your opinion, the default mode or the turn-based setting?

 

[octafish]

If you loved the Fallout games you will probably hate Fallout Tactics as takes a massive dump on the canon story and then smears excrement on all the walls. That said it can be a fun game. I played it on the default setting as I came to it just after playing JA2 and I couldn't handle moving across the maps in turn based. I used to have a lot of fun playing FOT over a LAN.

 

[Woem]

My vote goes to Stonekeep, available on GOG.com for $5.99!

 

[Stuntcrab]

Can you please tell me what ToEE and KotC stand for? also I think fallout 3 might have some tactical combat, you need the right weapons just play on hard for an actual fight

fallout 3? tactical? you must be joking. the entire game of fallout 3 is M1 + w and you win the game.

Well its the only rpg I know is decent...

 

[Heart of Darkness]

Tactical positioning means that when the party gets in range of enemies, the view changes to a hex grid or squares (or even a continuous terrain) and you can move your toons aswell as choose their targets. Standing behind allies or obstacles may grant cover, that sort of thing.

As for depth, let's just say I prefer it when the optimal strategy isn't just always picking your most powerful ability.

It's a strategy RPG for the DS, and, while it's not the same type of tactics that you'd use in HoMM, it's far from easy. It even "penalizes" grinding on the first playthrough by having weaker monsters drop little EXP.

That sounds good though.

Okay, then you would probably like it. The map screen is menu-based, but every battle is done on a grid, and you can choose where your characters move to, as certain attacks only work within certain ranges. No real cover, though, as some enemies with an increased attack radius can choose to attack the opponent that's farther away.

And usually your optimal strategy isn't picking your most powerful ability, but abusing creature's elemental weaknesses to gain extra turns and make sure they don't reflect or nullify or drain your attacks. Combine that with the fact that your main characters can only have so many skills on them at once (which can be swapped out at the map menu or before battle starts), and you'll be balancing your tactics for every battle. Maybe. You also get demons with skills, too, but they can't learn anything other then what they start out with, and what you teach them once you fill up some sort of meter. Which needs to be filled by fighting well and getting extra turns while preventing your opponent from doing the same.

 

[BreakfastMan]

If you do not dislike JRPGs, there are many good turn-based tactical RPG's there. My favorite is Valkyria chronicles, but Disgaea and FF tactics are both supposed to be quite good on the tactical combat front.

 

[Baby Tea]

Don't know if I can help you if Baldur's Gate 2 is "lowering your standards" since it's the best rpg out there.

This is what I'm thinking.
Baldur's Gate (1 and 2 both) has some deliciously tactical encounters. Mage placement, spell usage, and who your archers target, as well as current equipment all have ridiculously huge factors in battles. And once you get into the 2nd half of Shadows of Amn, and pretty much all of ToB, you really need to play smart. Maybe I don't get what the OP means by tactical, but if 6-man (Max) party combat isn't tactical, then I guess I just don't know tactical.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

This is what I'm thinking.
Baldur's Gate (1 and 2 both) has some deliciously tactical encounters. Mage placement, spell usage, and who your archers target, as well as current equipment all have ridiculously huge factors in battles. And once you get into the 2nd half of Shadows of Amn, and pretty much all of ToB, you really need to play smart. Maybe I don't get what the OP means by tactical, but if 6-man (Max) party combat isn't tactical, then I guess I just don't know tactical.

You could try games like Jagged Alliance 2, X-COM, Close Combat or a Total War title. Although, Total War might be a bad example because while it does allow some pretty mean tactics play it is too easy to play in an non tactical way and win.

Baldur's Gate games do have some tactics but it is pretty watered down. You can't avoid that most of the fights are just two groups running at each other without any formation, stealth or consideration for terrain or cover.

 

[Baby Tea]

Baldur's Gate games do have some tactics but it is pretty watered down. You can't avoid that most of the fights are just two groups running at each other without any formation, stealth or consideration for terrain or cover.

What?
Maybe that's how YOUR encounters go.
I've got thieves scouting and using invisibility potions for back-stabs (Stealth).
I've got mages that have to remain out of melee range, but still close enough to fire off the spells I need (Formation).
I've got melee fighters to keep protected form other mages and archers (Formation).
I've got archers who need to pick targets wisely (Formation).
I use the terrain to force enemy mages and archers within melee range (Terrain and cover).

Not to mention all the on-the-fly priest spells and special abilities and items used to keep the tide of the fight in your favor. Stealth, formation, and terrain are all absolutely factors in many encounters in the BG series, on top of the controlling 6 characters (max) and the use of spells and abilities.

I've played X-Com and Jagged Alliance, certainly, and there are obviously differences.
But the BG series is absolutely tactical, and I wouldn't call it 'watered down'.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

What?
Maybe that's how YOUR encounters go.
I've got thieves scouting and using invisibility potions for back-stabs (Stealth).
I've got mages that have to remain out of melee range, but still close enough to fire off the spells I need (Formation).
I've got melee fighters to keep protected form other mages and archers (Formation).
I've got archers who need to pick targets wisely (Formation).
I use the terrain to force enemy mages and archers within melee range (Terrain and cover).

Not to mention all the on-the-fly priest spells and special abilities and items used to keep the tide of the fight in your favor. Stealth, formation, and terrain are all absolutely factors in many encounters in the BG series, on top of the controlling 6 characters (max) and the use of spells and abilities.

I've played X-Com and Jagged Alliance, certainly, and there are obviously differences.
But the BG series is absolutely tactical, and I wouldn't call it 'watered down'.

Well, personally, I don't like micromanaging units so much in the infinity engine. Naturally, I made sure that only front line troops are one the front line but never really found that micro managing stealth or archers was rewarded that much. I'm not really sure why my fighters would need to be protected from mages as it was normally the other way around after I had applied the usual debuffs.

I didn't say that there were no tactics in Baldur's Gate but D&D combat is just not developed and marketed to be a tactical combat system and Baldur's Gate does not have all the features from D&D that might make it more tactical.

 

[veloper]

I've also been hearing good things about Jeanne d'Arc for the PSP, but nobody here has mentioned this game yet.

Anyone here played this game? How does it stack up against srpgs like Disgaea and fft?

 

[The Madman]

Well, personally, I don't like micromanaging units so much in the infinity engine. Naturally, I made sure that only front line troops are one the front line but never really found that micro managing stealth or archers was rewarded that much. I'm not really sure why my fighters would need to be protected from mages as it was normally the other way around after I had applied the usual debuffs.

I didn't say that there were no tactics in Baldur's Gate but D&D combat is just not developed and marketed to be a tactical combat system and Baldur's Gate does not have all the features from D&D that might make it more tactical.

No offense meant, especially since I usually agree with you when I see you post, but if you don't understand the need to micromanage or defend against mages, then I highly doubt you got far into Baldur's Gate 2 unless you were playing on the absolute easiest difficulties. One high level mage could and would absolutely wipe the floor with your group if you weren't careful, and trying to simply bash your way through the tougher encounters was futile. Beholders would wipe an entire group with a glance (literally), while Mind-Flayers would kill even the toughest fighters within a few hits because they flay minds, it's what they do, and no spells could protect against it because it's considered a physical effect when they tear your fighters brain out their nostril. Minsc was particularly vulnerable too, since he had relative few brains to spare...

Don't even get me started on Dragons, Vampires, traps, or group encounters either. Give it another go with the difficulty set to 'Core Rules', BG2 can be incredibly tactical, which also makes it more fun! Bit unforgiving at times, but that's half the charm. Just remember to quicksave often.

But even with all that said and returning to the topic at hand, the best infinity engine game as far as combat went wasn't Baldur's Gate 2, it was actually Icewind Dale 2. Uninteresting story and forgettable characters aside, Icewind Dale 2 was easily the peak of the Infinity engine as far as combat or gameplay mechanics are concerned. Worse game overall than BG2 I'd say, but better in terms of combat. No doubt because it was a much more focused and scripted series of events which sacrificed story integrity for the sake of 'you know what would make an awesome fight?' style scenario. Look it up if you've never played it: Icewind Dale 2

Infinity engine games aside, if you don't mind turn based combat (And I'm guessing you don't since you mention Heroes of Might & Magic) then you absolutely *must* play the new King's Bounty games. A silly story and outrageous fantasy setting are easily dismissed once the sheer volume of units types available and just how much fun can be had in its tactical battles, especially when you take unique unit abilities and spells into account as well. Damned good series, I've put nearly 80 hours into the first game and enjoyed every second of it, playing the second game; Armored Princess, now.