Poll: Male Gamers: Do you consider Kratos aspirational?

[Sandjube]

No, but I'm a pretty shitty male. So anything that could be deemed aspirational to males probably doesn't apply to me.

 

[wulf3n]

Well that's quite a failure then because all he's shown is that they're not considered an actual ideal of what you would want to be for most people. But not only that, he's shown they're only not a *full* ideal of what most men(here) would want. Plenty said the body's fine after all.

It's like one of those surveys where they ask really specific questions then act like someone answered a broader question.

I've never taken too much stock in polls personally, the method of inferring greater numbers just doesn't resonate with me.

In this poll I think Kratos was a bad choice as he is designed to be a power fantasy to make the inevitable realisation of impotence all the more powerful. Though to me "power fantasy" is a gender neutral term, as both sexes desire power.

 

[Icehearted]

A thick-headed, megacidal, maniac with a perma-scowl that wears the ashes of his dead family like a powdered doughnut? What's not to like about this? What man wouldn't want to commit murder just to open a door?

It's right there in our man-conde, stamped right on our nucleobases between craving sandwiches, SpikeTV, and masturbation.

 

[wulf3n]

Well my point is that people tend to call him a power fantasy, while the OP is saying things like that the claim is characters like Kratos "are manipulated so that they reflect ideals of what said young men want to be". But that's not what a power fantasy is, it's a fantasy not what you would actually aspire to be.

I can agree with that.

Like it's sure fun to run around killing everyone as a mage. I love mages for the power in games, being able to do things no one can in reality. But quite frankly I'd never *really* aspire to be like a mage in a video game, quite frankly in my actual life a lot of the most fun spells would be useless unless I want to be the most wanted man alive. Doesn't mean it's not a power fantasy and I think the OP has failed in distinguishing claims of Kratos being a power fantasy from Kratos being a role model.

Haha, If magic was real I would totally be a mage. I understand your point though fantasy is essentially what we wouldn't / couldn't do in reality, whereas aspiration implies "wanting to be in reality"

On slight tangent I personally feel that the interpretation of the audience doesn't mean all that much any way.

Even if no one interpreted Kratos as a power fantasy if that was the intention of his design by the creators then that's what it is. Likewise if it wasn't designed as a power fantasy everyone interpreting it that way doesn't make it so.

 

[Mad World]

In terms of his character, actions, and behavior, no, I don't find him appealing. He's essentially a completely self-serving psychopath. He isn't an anti-hero, he's the villain of his story and his revenge almost destroys the world.

In terms of his appearance, yeah, he kind of appeals to me.

Spoiler

He basically looks like a person at the peak of fitness. He's very muscular, but to a somewhat realistic amount, not to the point of absurdity like the Gears of War characters are. Not so much the rest of his appearance (bald head, scars, ridiculous tattoo and white painted skin), but in terms of his body structure, it's something that I do strive towards as a man.

Basically, what he said. Kratos is not the kind of person whom I think that people should aspire to be. His personality, anyway. Like Dirty Hipsters, I wouldn't mind at all having a physique like that. I go to the gym, and have a fairly good body, but not quite yet at Kratos' level. xD

 

[Techno Squidgy]

I have no desire to be like Kratos.
I dislike his character, actions and physique.

Perhaps if he wasn't a psychopath and had an actual warrior's physique then maybe.

I've never actually played a God of War game though, just never been interested enough to buy it and I don't have any friends who own it to borrow from.

 

[Bug MuIdoon]

Nope, not at all. The games are fun and all for what they are, But do I aspire to be like him? No. His character, or what tiny bit there is, is quite bland and nothing that stands out within the medium. As a man I don't find his physique great either, like some sort of muscly chump from a Mr Universe competition. But it's a game about ancient Greek mythology - his looks reflect some of that. It would hardly work if he looked like a standard human male.

As a bi male I don't find him the least bit attractive either.

 

[gargantual]

Of course he's not aspirational. Any form of media with a tough guy might present a clever line, attitude or posture that an impressionable viewer may occasionally see as an encouraging buffer to the social hardship they deal with, but those are soundbites that don't fit into real world context.

Kratos to me is premised on that the creators brought up the fact that all the gods of Greek and Roman mythology are no beings of aspiration themselves either but just a mythological mafia of arrogant psycho, destructive, manipulative personalities that come down from olympus to often bully and trouble the human race.

They needed a willing psycho 'avatar' to take the psychos off their historic pedestal in modern form. A stoic, humbled pacifist who someone would actually model their personal life around would not suffice this story of vengeance and war.

For the same reason Trevor Phillips was created in GTA5. Maybe not the best iteration in some peoples minds, but he has made home in his ideals, and was created to embody the nature of the gameplay.

 

[The Lugz]

So, male gamers, let's test you with an example: do you find the character, actions, or appearance of Kratos personally aspirational, or are expressions of characteristics you wish you possessed? If so, please outline what it is about him that you find appealing. If not, outline why you find him so reprehensible.

Character: 0/10

he's a psychopath, plain and simple.

Actions: 0/10

see above, he's just a murderer.

Appearance: 0/10

he's an ugly son of a *****, I mean seriously look at his face, look at his scars and that build is literally:
'greek god gone wrong'

this guy is a terrible example of a role model.
and as far as I can tell he isn't sexualised in the slightest, he just happens to be practically naked because, well what clothes would stand up to the abuse this guy sees on a daily basis?

from what I understand, male sexualisation is sold somewhat more cleverly by attempting to make 'pretty boys' in tight leather tough, rather than to make muscle bound brick walls more delicate, think about this guy:

the problem is, you push too hard and it's a fine line between trying to make a stylish male and trying to signal to the audience he may be a gay male, as people can't seem to tell the difference. ( lets admit it, from a picture it's tricky )

There's an interesting article about final fantasy characters ( and others ) here too:
http://themalesofgames.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/my-struggles-with-sexualised-males.html

 

[wulf3n]

Eh, I think they matter in different contexts. Like if someone has an issue with the creators then it could be their intention, in which case how people took it doesn't matter, or the execution of their intention in which case it does matter how people took it. How people actually take it being rather important to how successful they were in their execution. It's just a separate thing, but it can be relevant.

That's a good point. I didn't really think of it like that.

 

[Not Matt]

no. He has a good physic but if you want that kind of body you need to be specially interested in being muscle bound. I am a normal guy. And as a normal guy, i request a normal body. No average guy want a body like Arnold Schwarzenegger. we want something like Robert downy jr. muscley, thin, but still kinda chubby. that is the body most guys want.

 

[Radoh]

Of course, he's a friggin' awesome character. Maybe some of his decisions aren't much to aspire to, but his actions and conflicts are...oh, wait, that Kratos?

No, I wouldn't aspire to be him. I can't imagine that Kratos shouting "Feel the pain of those 'inferior beings'...as you burn in hell!"

You know, the moment I saw you thought he was a cool character I knew you'd take the same angle I was going to take.

OT: No, that Kratos is an awful pile of garbage who's psychopathic tendencies are only made worse by the size and stature of his, albeit rather well toned phsyique.
Kratos Aurion however, is a much better character who achieves a much better goal and isn't a psychopath who is also easier to look at then Kratos No-Last-Name-I'm-Aware-Of.

 

[Mangod]

The only thing about Kratos that you should aspire to is how fit he is physically. Anything else however; personality, actions, appearance, history... Kratos is, to quote Extra Credits, "a greek tragedy" (in the first game) and those are not something you should aspire to be part of. As for the second and third game... yeah, he's just plain evil at that point.

Really, asking if Kratos is someone you should emulate is sort of like asking if you should emulate Oh Dae-su from Old Boy. No, just... no.

 

[dementis]

I consider his peak physical fitness and agility something to aspire too, I used to be in good shape from Cardio but wasn't all that strong but after a rather serious motorcycle accident I find it rather difficult to go for extended cardio (metal pieces in my leg are a tad uncomfortable) so I've moved on to physical strength exercises instead.

 

[Moloch Sacrifice]

You have data to refute WHAT claim?

I'm going to go with "The design of [insert female game character] is not comparable to [insert male game character] as both are designed to appeal to men".

Kind of like this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7290-Objectification-And-Men]

Hell if I know exactly what "Design" and "Appeal" refer to in this context though.

Well that's quite a failure then because all he's shown is that they're not considered an actual ideal of what you would want to be for most people. But not only that, he's shown they're only not a *full* ideal of what most men(here) would want. Plenty said the body's fine after all.

It's like one of those surveys where they ask really specific questions then act like someone answered a broader question.

Despite what you may believe, I do not consider what has been discussed here a failure. Indeed, the terms failure and success should have no meaning when referring to data collection, except perhaps when referring to the validity or reliability of the data collected. I did not set out to prove or disprove any statement or claim other than that in the original post. However, the information gathered here can be used to further address larger, more general questions such as that mentioned by wulf3n, when combined with other relevant data.

But to be clear: in itself, this data only answers the original post; it is only generalizable when combined with other relevant data.

It is an unfortunate characteristic of systematic data collection that the question at hand cannot usually be addressed immediately without additional supporting evidence. This poll does not represent final, conclusive evidence that Kratos, or similar characters, have no appeal to male gamers, and nor should it. What is being done here is merely laying the groundwork for further, more precise observations. If you do not find the extent of the information provided here sufficient (and even I do not), I implore you to gather your own data so that we may better understand the matter at hand.

 

[000Ronald]

As anyone who has been here for any length of time will have noticed, debates on gender equality and depiction in media flare up quite frequently on this forum. One of the key points raised is that whilst female characters (such as Mileena in Mortal Kombat, or Lara Croft in Tomb Raider) are manipulated in order to be sexually appealing to young men, male characters (such as Kratos in God of War, or Marcus Fenix in Gears of War) are manipulated so that they reflect ideals of what said young men want to be. Therefore, I felt it might be worthwhile actually gathering some actual data on the subject.

So, male gamers, let's test you with an example: do you find the character, actions, or appearance of Kratos personally aspirational, or are expressions of characteristics you wish you possessed? If so, please outline what it is about him that you find appealing. If not, outline why you find him so reprehensible.

Would I like to look like Kratos? I...don't think so. I would rather be liythe than bulky. But there is a much more important aspect of this I'm sure you've noticed, and I'm 'a bring it up to.

I've hated Kratos since I learned that his reaction to the killing his family due to unrestrained, wanton violence was...to even more unrestrained and wanton in his violence. I was so furious that I threw the controller across the room and shouted obscenities at the television. And with good reason; a sensible person would stop for a minute and say to themselves, "Well. That was my family I just killed. I wonder how many other people's families I've straight-up murdered for little to no reason. Maybe I should take a break. Take up swimming or something."

But Kratos is not a sensible person. Or a compassionate person. Or even a sane person. I've known sociopaths-actual literal sociopaths-who have more compassion than he does. I am hesitant to call him a person at all; he is closer to some kind of reptilian predator, or (by the end of the second game) perhaps some mindless Lovecraftian horror, something that kills and kills and kills and kills because it doesn't know how to do anything else. Kratos is not just reprehensible. Kratos is not just disgusting. He is genuinely horrifying in what he does, and why. Even if he is the perfect physical specimen, his actions after the first game are those of a monster, not a man. How someone behaves is much, much, much more important than how he looks.

And the problem? Everything I just mentioned. I'm reasonably certain that Kratos was deliberately designed with the most reprehensible personality they could give a Greek hero, and in a way that follows the later stages of The Hero's Journey[footnote]Damn it, I left my copy of The Hero With A Thousand Faces at home. But he talks about how Minos became a villan at some point, I'll add it later[/footnote]. And they didn't have to do that. There are plenty of stories plenty of GAMES even that let you enjoy the story of someone who would, under resaonable circumstances, be considered a villan, but is considered a hero in the story. This aspect is, in fact, so importiant, that the majority of posts in this thread (as of this writing) have brought it up in some capacity.

Or, to cut out the irrelevant bits, Kratos was DESIGNED with a PERSONALITY.

I maintain that Objectification isn't systemic of male dominence in entertainment as much as it is systemic of poor storytelling practices in general. How often do we hear, especially in video games, that the story is on the BOTTOM of the list of priorities? Gameplay has to come first; if something needs to be cut, it is almost always the story. People don't complain about Buffy or Danerys or Tess is objectified because it isn't nessecary. If you write a good, or even a decent story, you don't need to objectify people. And the story of God of War, regardless of the terror and the violence and the bloodshed, is one that is well told.

And there's the outline of your paper on objectification. Call it, "Kratos Is Not An Object." You're welcome.