Poll: Male reproductive rights

[mew4ever23]

A man makes that decision when he has unprotected sex. Period. If he wasn't prepared to deal with the possibility of a pregnancy, he should have used a condom (or insert other contraceptive here), or not had sex at all.

Giving a man the means to order an abortion just seems utterly wrong. This has a huge potential for abuse, and it will make men in general irresponsible. Why use a condom if you can just walk into a law office and start proceedings to order an abortion?

 

[oktalist]

Women are allowed to get abortions, even if the father wants to have the child. Another double-standard.

What the fuck? How is that a double standard? Fathers don't have to endure 9 months of pregnancy plus childbirth.

A father whose child is aborted may have to endure a lifetime of knowing his child was killed.

I still think it's a woman's right to choose; I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

 

[The Lugz]

you should need a licence from the government including a home check, financial check and signed agreements from both parents

why? because children do come into the world unwanted and or with parents that abuse them or cant feed them and population is too high already and cannot be sustained indefinitely

 

[Exterminas]

So you want to abort a child, because daddy doesn't feel like paying up?

The problem here is not about Men vs. Women. It is about
"Okay, so if you diagree that your pregnant gal gives birth, what are you going to do then?"

Kill... sorry... abort the fetus?

To put it bluntly: Abortion is always murder, but depending on your moral bent it might be justified murder. And most people who justify that have good reasons for it (not-having a concious mind yet, for example).

But with your form you entirely bypass the whole abortion-debate and just assume that it is alright to exterminate a generating life because of... derp...

Maybe you should clarifiy your idea in that regard.
Because if you run it that way, there would be a lot of people who just knock up gal after gal out of carelessnes and who end up ramping up a whole pile of dead fetuses.

You may thing about abortion what you want, but tell me that picture is not something that has to be avoided.

 

[gbemery]

To the vasectomy crowd; So I should have to mutilate my body because a woman is too untrustworthy to use her birth control? That would be a violation of my civil rights.

umm but if she doesn't want the abortion then you are violating her civil rights by saying she should have to give up that choice. So you are upset if your civil rights are violated but not her's...double standard much?


It goes back again to my first argument, from my last post. If you don't want a child then get together with another woman who doesn't as well. If you don't know the girl well enough to know if she will lie about birth control or won't get an abortion to prevent a pregnancy then you are obviously poking around the wrong place...no pun intended.

 

[Sethzard]

I think it's fine not to have one as long as 1, the mother doesn't try and guilt the father into giving her money, and 2, she is capable of bringing up the child well.

 

[Madara XIII]

I read the first two sentences...

A man makes that choice when he has unprotected sex.

Don't want a kid? Keep it in your pants.

EDIT: Okay, I read the rest... you can't be serious here.

You Say: Marriage contracts have become legally meaningless as there are no longer any courts which uphold them.

I say: There are specific courts that only deal with Marriage contracts. You think marriage contracts are legally meaningless? You are mistaken.

You Say: Whenever there's a single mother, they have always blamed the father, while assigning no blame whatsoever to the mother, whom refuses to get an abortion even when it's legal and free to do so.

I say: Whoever is telling you these things is wrong. It takes two to tango (unless we are talking about rape) and since when (and where) is abortion free?

Well your comment was so full of win that I jumped up and squealed like a little girl......

I'm not joking....DON'T JUDGE ME!! I'M MORE EVIL THAN YOU THINK!!!

On a serious note concerning OP: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Bullshit. As much as any man wishes this would work, I have to say that this is not going to happen. Just no. I wish I had more to say, but right now I'm too busy busting a gut to give a damn anymore.
Face it. You screwed up and now you have to deal with the consequences.

Let's see what Noob Saibot has to say on the matter.

 

[LiberalSquirrel]

Wow. This is a first. I'm a fairly open-minded person, but I had a strong negative reaction from the very first sentence of the OP.

It should be illegal for a woman to give birth to a child without a signed consent form from the biological father.

Let's hope that here, you meant keeping the child, rather than simply giving birth to it. Because otherwise, I'm extremely annoyed. There's such a thing as giving a child up for adoption at birth, y'know.

Now, onto the main debate of the topic.

The first, best, 100% guaranteed birth control is abstinence. Most anything has a possibility of resulting in pregnancy, no matter what measures you take to avoid it. Condoms break, the pill doesn't work, et cetera, et cetera. So having sex, whether it is "protected" or not, means that there's a chance of pregnancy. So, in fact, childbearing is "a decision reached mutually," if the person is anywhere near intelligent. It's not like anyone's forcing men to have sex with women. (Or if they are, I certainly haven't heard of it.)

But the problem is that there really isn't a way to make childbirth even for a man and a woman. "Women should not have a monopoly on reproductive rights?" Well, sorry, m'dear, but that's the way us humans are made. Unless some strange person comes up with a way to make the men share all the issues and complications of 9 months of pregnancy, a woman essentially does have a monopoly on reproductive rights. It's the woman that will be carrying the child in her body for 9 months, not the man. Therefore, she should have a right to decide what's going on with her body.

And I believe others in this thread have already mentioned the ridiculous fallacy that is "free abortions," so I'll leave that one alone.

And I'm speaking as someone who's pro-choice. Make of that what you will.

 

[Kroxile]

If a man doesn't want a child, he should be able to have control over what happens to his genetic material

He kind of does. He just has to avoid putting his dick in things with receptive ovums.

Seriously, guys, if you think this is a big problem, put some sperm on ice and get yourself a vasectomy. This may sound blunt, but you really do ultimately have control over your own sperm. Unrealistic? Maybe. But so is the idea that you are going to be running around forcing women to abort because you got too drunk to put on a condom.

Their is also the issue of condoms breaking. And their are crazy women out there who have practically raped men over an obsession to get impregnated, or purposefully break condoms without their partner knowing.

Is it still unrealistic to expect someone to get an abortion if they impregnated themselves forcefully or without the partners consent?

I can identify with this because my little brother got into one such relationship where the girl claimed to be on the pill but really wasn't so she could get pregnant, have his kid, and force him to pay child support. Immediately after the kid was born, she left him, got with someone new, and got pregnant again too.

"Women" (won't use the word I want out of fear of moderator wrath) like her need to have their tubes tied to prevent this kind of crap from happening.

I also hate that the responsibility seems to always fall on the man. Its not always the man's fault people. Women want equal rights, so they should have equal responsibility too. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too, folks.

 

[GrandmaFunk]

It should be illegal for a woman to give birth to a child without a signed consent form from the biological father.

What if she doesn't know who the biological father is, or doesn't have a way to contact him?

what if he dies between conception and the discovery of the pregnancy?

 

[dyre]

Women are allowed to get abortions, even if the father wants to have the child. Another double-standard.

What the fuck? How is that a double standard? Fathers don't have to endure 9 months of pregnancy plus childbirth.

A father whose child is aborted may have to endure a lifetime of knowing his child was killed.

I still think it's a woman's right to choose; I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

He should arrange that sort of thing in advance then :\

One does not have the right to demand 9 months of someone else's life for the sake of preventing emotional conflict

 

[Dexiro]

Is it still unrealistic to expect someone to get an abortion if they impregnated themselves forcefully or without the partners consent?

I think this is a horrific idea. I don't think you can do a paternity test until much later in a pregnancy, and the later you leave them, the more complicated abortions become. So either you are advocating that blokes should have the right to demand women abort their babies because it might be theirs, or you are going to forcefully perform serious surgery on women. There are risks associated with any surgery. People do die during abortions, and the later the abortion the higher risk. Do you seriously advocate doctors should perform these surgeries forcefully on women?

I don't particularly like the idea either, but rape and such is a very extreme circumstance. It might be preferable to simply allow the male to opt out of supporting the child because I don't believe anyone should be forced to support a child out of rape.

Their is also the issue of condoms breaking. And their are crazy women out there who have practically raped men over an obsession to get impregnated, or purposefully break condoms without their partner knowing.

Ummm.... I don't think this happens as much as you do. If you have found evidence of such things happening (other than in tele-dramas) with any regularity other than the weird story Nancy Grace or Judge Judy picks up, then please, by all means, share this with us. I'm sure it would be enlightening.

Otherwise, the scenarios you envision are kind of like lightning striking the same condom twice. Besides, a woman doesn't really need to rape a man to get pregnant. In case you haven't noticed, there is no dearth of men willing to stick their dick in anything, no questions asked. It's not really all that difficult to get pregnant barring general fertility issues, in which case, raping a man ain't gonna fix bum ovaries.

I think what you may be trying to get at is women trying to get financial support, which is an entirely different issue and one far to complicated for laws to really fix all that well.

Is it still unrealistic to expect someone to get an abortion if they impregnated themselves forcefully or without the partners consent?

It's always unrealistic to expect the courts to ever force a woman to have an abortion. It's unrealistic to expect the courts to force anyone to undergo any elective surgery.

You're making the assumption that I'm implying this happens on a daily basis, a woman forcing someone to impregnate them is a very extreme circumstance but it does happen. As I said to the other person it might be preferable to simply allow the male to opt out of supporting the child in these circumstances.

 

[thepyrethatburns]

To OP:

Well, I used to say "Keep it in your pants if you want to avoid such things" but your well-thought-out and rational argument has con.....

Oh.

Well, Noob Saibot has spoken and I'm not about to go against that. Sorry OP but you're going to have to keep it in your pants.

 

[Treblaine]

Well a mother pregnant with a foetus is one body, her body, and she has her own independence over HER OWN reproductive system.

Just because the man contributed some DNA does not give HIM rights over HER reproductive organs.

Alimony is the big issue here, if the father didn't want the child (or was tricked into impregnating the woman like her lying about being on the pill) that is an issue but it is SEPARATE from reproductive rights. Personally I think that alimony should be void if the woman lied about being on the pill/infertile/etc

But if a man has sex with a woman without ensuring precautions to avoid impregnating her, then he should have to pay alimony for the child if born.

Though with the Caveat. If a woman wants the money of her-baby's-daddy then she cannot have-her-cake-and-eat-it. If she wants his money, for him to take responsibility, then you cannot deny him the RIGHT to be a father to his own child. Custody THEN becomes an issue, maybe the child would be better raised by the father? The father should be included in the child's upbringing with important time together like divorced parents.

If the mother doesn't like the father exercising his right to raise his own child, can she really demand alimony from him?

But one thing the father certainly can't do is demand an abortion.

The man's role in reproduction is fleeting, that is the "delivery" of his portion of the DNA. His time to make demands is over, he has no part in reproduction any more, the woman does everything from now on.

The time that the father is needed again is in RAISING the child, that is SEPARATE from reproduction.

 

[Ryan Minns]

Women are allowed to get abortions, even if the father wants to have the child. Another double-standard.

What the fuck? How is that a double standard? Fathers don't have to endure 9 months of pregnancy plus childbirth.

A father whose child is aborted may have to endure a lifetime of knowing his child was killed.

I still think it's a woman's right to choose; I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

Being one of those... potential fathers, it has haunted me for nearly a decade. When your chance to be a parent is taken from you for the all too common reason "Boys won't find me pretty anymore" it changes you more than most people could ever imagine. That is a direct quote from my ex...

 

[Chairman Miaow]

I would just like to point out, that at best, condoms are 99% effective. 1 in 100 chance of failing. How often does somebody in a stable relationship have sex? How many people are in stable relationships? How many people have one night stands and how often? that's a lot of unplanned pregnancies even if people use protection. People are far too judgemental over these things. If I got somebody pregnant because my condom failed, I would certainly want to be able to decide not to have it. I don't however think a man should be able to decide to have it if the woman wants it. Having the baby should be a consensus, not having it should be a right.

 

[Marzirocks]

"It should be illegal for a woman to give birth to a child without a signed consent form from the biological father."

Forcing an abortion on a woman? It will never, in a million years, happen. Women (and some men) have been fighting for abortion rights since, well, since they figured out how to perform one.

You are basing your argument on the idea that everything should be fair. Which in most cases, I agree with. Here, I don't. Because biology isn't fair. Men don't have to carry the child, they just provide the swimmer. If you wanted, your responsibility ends there. A woman, even if she chooses to terminate, her responsibility doesn't end 10 seconds post-orgasm.

"Whenever there's a single mother, they have always blamed the father, while assigning no blame whatsoever to the mother, whom refuses to get an abortion even when it's legal and free to do so."

I'm sorry, have you spoken to every single mother? I myself can think of at least 20 single mothers I know personally who don't blame the father. Legal AND free? You must not live in the United States. It is most definitely not free and depending upon where you are, may or may not be legal.

Speaking of which, legislators are voting on a regular basis to remove state funding from Planned Parenthood, an organization that while offering abortions as part of their services, does NOT use government funds for them. (All patients must pay for them, as insurance does not cover them.) Planned Parenthood provides health services to hundreds of thousands of woman who are unable to afford traditional visits, as well as sexual health services to men.

The governor of Louisiana (forget his name, the article was far enough back I can't seem to find it) proposed a bill that is "unapologetically pro-life", in which the mother, practicing doctor, and father (if he is aware and consenting) would all be charged with first degree murder for performing an abortion. This includes ALL abortions, including ones where the life of the mother is in danger. Floating pregnancies? There is no possible way for the mother to carry the child to term, and the mother WILL die. In Louisiana, he wants to make that your only option.

There are enough radical viewpoints on a woman being allowed to legally obtain an abortion, without the added stress of having to chase down a man she may have only had sex with once to see if he might want to have a child.

The moral of my story is: biology isn't fair. Women have to carry the child, women get to make the final choice. Be aware that condoms break and no form of birth control is 100% effective. Safe sex everyone!

 

[SinisterGehe]

Thing I am afraid of ( I blame this on my fear of people ) that some woman will do something to get my sperm, pregnate herself and then use that to blackmail me.

I would be for this whole idea, but it would be impossible to execute. I would love there to be something like this so neither mother or father can skip on the duty of being a parent. But like I said, I like the idea but it is impossible to execute so that everyone gets to keep their human rights (Note I am not talking abou civil rights since I am not American. I follow UN's human right act and the Finnish laws based on that)

 

[Daverson]

I dunno about forced abortion, but I will agree that potential fathers don't have enough say in this sort of thing.

Maybe just make the kid a ward of the state instead? I mean, that pleases the people who are all high and mighty, disagreeing with abortion etc., and people who are sadistic enough to rob a new mother of her child! It's the perfect system!