Poll: Male reproductive rights

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Dastardly

Imaginary Friend
Apr 19, 2010
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wolas3214 said:
Is this change to our society really too much to ask?

Whats your opinion?
I see what you're getting at. I may not agree, but I understand.

When two consenting adults have sex, and that sex ends in unwanted/unplanned pregnancy, the perception is that the woman has two choices she can freely make: Have the kid, or don't have the kid (abortion or adoption). And the perception is that the man has one choice--do whichever the woman says.

That means if the woman doesn't want/can't afford a child, she has an "out." If the woman wants it, but the man doesn't want/can't afford the child, he has no say, no "out." The common statement is that he "made his choice when he decided to have sex," but it seems this doesn't apply to the woman. I can understand the perception, and it certainly is an asymmetrical system. Both parties do not have the same options or the same level of say. However:

1. Many of those people also think the woman made her choice when she decided to have sex, and thus abortion is only for rape, incest, or cases of health crisis. In that sense, this view is more internally consistent with itself--the idea is that both parties waived their "right to choose" when they chose to have sex.

2. Forcing an abortion on a woman, if the man says, "No," is a fiercely dangerous thing. If you're going to push this angle, you should instead push for a system that allows a man to sue for non-parental status--if she chooses to have the child, and he mounts a case against it, he could say, "Look, if I don't get a say, then it's all on you." At least with this idea, you're not on the edge of forcing abortion on a woman... though an idea like this is so full of pitfalls I don't see how you could make it work.

3. Yes, it's a double standard (in a sense). A hypothetical woman who says, "Oops! I had my fun, but now I don't want to pay for it!" can open the escape hatch and get away. A hypothetical man who does the same cannot, and he'll be on the financial hook for the next 18 years at the very least.

Similarly, a hypothetical couple who has a child on the way with a known severe birth defect (say, Down's syndrome) has a decision to make. If the mother decides, "We can't afford the care we'll need, and we don't want a lifetime of that kind of work," she can opt out. If the father thinks that, but the mother does not, he's up a creek.

So yeah, it can be a double standard. More accurately, it's an asymmetrical choice. They seem unfair, but often they can't really be called that. Fact of the matter is, the woman is the one that houses the baby for nine months and endures child birth. As a result, any procedure performed on the baby is also performed on her. That means she gets veto power, plain and simple.

The "unfortunate" part is that, once childbirth is done, both parents have equal responsibility even though they didn't have equal choice. But that's just a feature of the way the biological system is designed, not an unfair social construct.

In principle, if the biology was symmetrical, I could agree with you. But that's not how the species is built, so it just doesn't work that way.
 

CaptainKoala

Elite Member
May 23, 2010
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Thats an example of a terrible solution, class. A better solution would be to KEEP IT IN YOUR DAMN PANTS
 

Roganzar

Winter is coming
Jun 13, 2009
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Is this by chance just trolling or maybe a joke.
No one, (I'd like to hope), could really think this is an acceptable concept.
However if your serious, I'd recommend finding some Islamic extremeist group to join as I believe, (I said "believe" this is not necessarily a fact), that the men of that culture might whole-heartedly support this assholic concept that you have put forth.
 

ParkourMcGhee

New member
Jan 4, 2008
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Sober Thal said:
Just don't have sex
I tried this, and it didn't really work out.

I know OP is kinda forcing too much here, but I always use a condom - then what happens if it breaks or is sabotaged? Do I still have a legal obligation to support what happens?

What happens if a woman actually manages to run off with a used condom?

I need answers :(
 
Sep 14, 2009
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meganmeave said:
If a man doesn't want a child, he should be able to have control over what happens to his genetic material
He kind of does. He just has to avoid putting his dick in things with receptive ovums.

Seriously, guys, if you think this is a big problem, put some sperm on ice and get yourself a vasectomy. This may sound blunt, but you really do ultimately have control over your own sperm. Unrealistic? Maybe. But so is the idea that you are going to be running around forcing women to abort because you got too drunk to put on a condom.

Edit

it's legal and free to do so
Wait? What? When did this become free now? You've been watching too much Fox news.
this

your sperm, however its her body, and your the dumbass who didn't keep it in his pants, so..

 

almostgold

New member
Dec 1, 2009
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wolas3214 said:
I would posit that having children, like having sex, should be a decision reached mutually, and not forced upon a party by one overbearing, overzealous individual.
Same decision, buddy. Having children is an inherent risk of having sex. If you make the decision to have sex with somebody, you're making the decision to deal with any consequences. You can't just pick and choose like that.
 

Anti Nudist Cupcake

New member
Mar 23, 2010
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We can't force women to have abortions, but women can't be allowed to force men to have children either.
What I mean is that there are cases where a woman who a man has grown to love and trust after a very long time will betray that trust by tricking him into getting her pregnant (lying about being on the pill) for various reasons and at the end of the day, the man will HAVE to pay for the child.

This is wrong, and don't think that men should simply not date women who they can't trust, some of the greatest liars can easily earn your trust because they are very good at it and driven enough by their end-goal, which is to get pregnant even though the male doesn't want a child.

Obviously something needs to be done for cases such as these to prevent women from tricking men into paying for the upbringing of children they never wanted.

Another argument is that men should simply not have sex if they don't want a child, sex is an important component in a relationship and can therefor not simply be removed as people do it for pleasure and as a sign of affection, not simply for reproduction.

Another argument is that if a guy doesn't want a child, wear protection. Well did you know that protection fails too? What then? Should a man be FORCED to pay for the upbringing here too? They should not, these accidents happen and we need to not only protect the interests of the woman, but the man as well.

If a woman wants the man to pay for the child's upbringing then they have to have a contract that indicates the man willingly wanted the child and wasn't forced or tricked into having it.
But then again, what if the man was simply careless? What if it WAS his fault for getting the mother pregnant? What do we do then and how can we prove he was careless? All we have is the mother's word and people are horrible and quite evil creatures that do tend to LIE, allot.

These matters are just far too sensitive and complicated for a solution to be handled by a bunch of strangers on a gaming forum, so I chose "undecided" as I cannot trust a single individual here, not even myself, to think of the solution.
 

Anti Nudist Cupcake

New member
Mar 23, 2010
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Sober Thal said:
Bigfootmech said:
Sober Thal said:
Just don't have sex
I tried this, and it didn't really work out.

I know OP is kinda forcing too much here, but I always use a condom - then what happens if it breaks or is sabotaged? Do I still have a legal obligation to support what happens?

What happens if a woman actually manages to run off with a used condom?

I need answers :(
Answer: You are responsible. You should pay for the child you bring into the world.
Even when he did everything he could to prevent that?

I'm sorry, but that's just not an acceptable solution.
 

Genericjim101

New member
Jan 7, 2011
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In all honesty knowing one of my siblings would not have existed if the father had his say I cannot agree with your idea, especially since in my case the father was then the one to demand custody after his birth X D . Both genders can be equally irresponsible and indecisive but in the end it's the woman's right.
 

Dense_Electric

New member
Jul 29, 2009
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I'm not a fan of either parent backing out, but as far as I'm concerned if women can choose to opt out via abortion, men can choose to opt out by not paying child support. I would hope both parents would be responsible and raise the child, but it's wrong to give one half of the population the right to be irresponsible and not the other half.

Sober Thal said:
It's like... people should know the answers to these questions, yet seem to want a way out of responsibility.
Like I said, if women get the right to be irresponsible, so do men. It's really only fair.
 

Biodeamon

New member
Apr 11, 2011
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see this exactly what i've talking about all these years! everybody thought i was sexist but now we have proof!!!

All these years i've been saying that the roles of prejuduce of roles is being reversed and that the feminist groups are taking over but everybody's just like "don't be such a sexist jerk". so whenever you actually confront them the feminist groups they can just call you sexist and everybody will jump on you and they can walk away scot free...in fact i bet within ten minutes of this post people will call me sexist...i'm not saying that feminist groups should be ground underfoot i'm just asking for a balance between the two genders. And do we see any malist groups? no, you know why? because all those groups and stamped out by feminists....

ounce again, i'm not sexist, but i'm just asking for some equality here not a hostile take-over...god forbid if it turns to this....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqTvdz7mv7c


wait, are we talking about abortion? ummmmmmm....great now i look a complete idiot.....
all those big words confused me...
 

Phasmal

Sailor Jupiter Woman
Jun 10, 2011
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If you create a child, accidentally or not, the ultimate decision to abort or not (like it or not, double standard or not) is still the womans.
Dont like it? Date dudes.
Or just dont have sex.

But I would suggest dating dudes cause the OP clearly has some woman issues.
 

Colour Scientist

Troll the Respawn, Jeremy!
Jul 15, 2009
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William MacKay said:
To answer your first question, yes that would be the only fair way. but what i'm saying is that if the father doesnt want to keep the child and the mother does, why should the father have to pay child support. imagine if you and your wife live in a rented house/apartment. you move out because you break up and you hate the house. if it fair for you to keep paying rent?
Except that a rented house and a child are incomparable.
You can't just abandon a child because you got burnt by a relationship going sour. It's a person, a person you helped to create and is therefore your responsibility until it is old enough to care for itself.


Besides, have you any idea how easily that system could be abused. Say, a man and a woman are engaged, they agree to have a baby at some point in the future but something goes wrong with their contraception(as is prone to happen) and they have an unplanned pregnancy. At first they both embrace it, the child is born and both a living together happily. Then the relationship ends badly, the father denies ever wanting the child in the first place and due to the law in place can immediately abandon all responsibility leaving the mother to bear the burden alone, without any financial aid.