Poll: Male reproductive rights

[Eisenfaust]

I agree in principle that the state of men's reproductive rights is a complete disgrace. A lecturer of mine knew a guy who had be sought out, seduced, drugged (alcohol, but still) and screwed a specific guy, just to have his child, at which point he was forced to pay child support. If the reverse happened, he'd have been imprisioned for rape.

HOWEVER

the concept of a birth contract shifts all the responsibility and blame onto the woman (as opposed to most of it)... if it's an accidental birth that NEITHER of them planned, suddenly it's all her fault and all her responsibility, which is a problem as this is never really the case

and yet, it'd be practically impossible to have a birthing contract system in place that doesn't allow for that to happen. it's a good point, conceptually... the idea behind it works to highlight a current problem, but this is in no way a solution

perhaps merely an "intercourse contract" for which the possibility of a child is built in, where one or either paty could surrender a specific part. problem is, as an official contract you'd need witnesses... lawyers (thus enforcing it wasn't forced)... which'd sort of put a pallor on the whole "we're about to fuck" part

(i'm a guy btw, catholic if it matters, yet strangely pro choice)

To answer your first question, yes that would be the only fair way. but what i'm saying is that if the father doesnt want to keep the child and the mother does, why should the father have to pay child support. imagine if you and your wife live in a rented house/apartment. you move out because you break up and you hate the house. if it fair for you to keep paying rent?

Except that a rented house and a child are incomparable.
You can't just abandon a child because you got burnt by a relationship going sour. It's a person, a person you helped to create and is therefore your responsibility until it is old enough to care for itself.

Plus... if you default on the rent for the apartment, it doesn't DIE

and what's to stop every father who feels the pressure or something from saying "ooooh, look at me, i don't want the child, give me my money back", completely screwing both mother and child

 

[Sethzard]

This is probably the most fucked up thread I have seen in a long time.

Guess what buddy if you get a women pregnant it is your responsibility and you will have to deal with the consequences.

Also this thread is a prime example of why rednecks should not mix drugs and alcohol.

I think it's fine not to have one as long as 1, the mother doesn't try and guilt the father into giving her money, and 2, she is capable of bringing up the child well.

Tell me how is she supposed to be capable of bringing up the child on her own when she has to stay at home and raise a child instead of working? A women cant just pop a child out and go directly to work and govt child payments are generally not enough by themselves.

If you get a women pregnant and dont want anything to do with the child then it is and should be 100% up to her if you will pay child support or not.

Why? If she's from a family of money then she could pay for it, and if she refuses to get an abortion on religious rights then it's her fault in my opinion.

 

[Anaklusmos]

I'm on the fence about this, I don't think that women should be forced to have an abortion, but I also think that a man should have more say in the pregnancy.

 

[rutger5000]

I can't believe this is your honest opinion. I suspect you're trolling.
Anyway you know the about the thing of women and men having the same rights and such? Yeah that's utter bullcrap. Women and men are fundamentally different and take a different place in socioty. That means different rights are assigned to them. Thank God for that. This is a typical case were a woman rights overrule that of a man. Again thank God for that. It is the womans baby, she gets to decide. And no it doesn't become your baby just cause it came from your sperm. Same way as it doesn't become your apple pie if the apple pie is made from apples that fell from the tree because you were playing in that tree.
Being the biological father shouldn't mean a thing, it ought to give you no rights what so ever. I'm not sure about the obligations it should give you I need to think about that.

 

[A Weakgeek]

Maybe that was a bit too harsh but assumign he didnt want that child he should not be forced to pay for it.

Actually, I somewhat agree with you on that count, though for different reasons, and with a slight edit.

The fact of the matter is, douchebag fathers will leave the mother anyway, even if this doesn't have legal backup. What I'd like to see is a legally binding contract in advance (before sex) putting it all in the open, as in whether or not the father will help raise a potential child.

This would promote a whole lot more responsibility in terms of accidental pregnancies, because the wife would no longer be under some illusion that the husband will support her, while in reality he'll just run away and let us taxpayers do the work.

But that's not what your post said, so I still stand by my "hell no" vote.

This. Man should not be able to force a woman to take an abortion, but a woman should not be able to force a man to pay for a child he doesen't want to (and wont actually) raise. This to me is the most fair choice.

 

[Sarkule]

Most of your points are fairly stupid. And your view on single mothers is fucked, and downright disturbing.
But one point I will make, is that if a man gets a woman pregnant, and doesn't want to keep it, and the woman won't abort, in some cases he should still pay child support. A woman may not desperatley want the baby, but having an abortion can be a serious mental and physical ordeal for people, and she shouldn't be forced to raise a child with no support for not wanting one.

 

[PeacanPie]

Keep it in your pants or accept the responsibility.
Not to mention, you don't even need to accept the responsibility because men have the option of running away. It's the woman who generally has to look after the child, so it should be her choice whether she wants it. I cannot imagine a way she could MAKE you stay.
You did the deed, you deal with it.

Pretty much all of your opinions are ill informed and... wrong. I hate calling opinions wrong, but they so obviously are. Be reasonable. You're clearly genuinely ignorant on this matter.

Firstly, saying all children who grow up with just one parent or parents in a non-conventional relationship are screwed up is false. I know many who have become sensible, valued members of society with just one parent.

The reason such a double standard exists is because (in case you hadn't noticed) women are the ones who have to HAVE the baby. The women are the only one responsible after the tadpole hits the bulls-eye as it were. Men don't need to be involved in a child's life, they have no legal obligation. Many men just walk away, if you weren't aware of this I'm suggesting you pull your head out of that lovely sandbox you're living in and come and join the rest of us in the real world. If you don't want kids, don't have unprotected sex. If you want to be 100% sure, don't have sex at all or take one of the procedures available to stop you being able to.
Abortion is painful, traumatic and only free in very special situations. Clearly you've never had one or you wouldn't be spouting such ignorant crap.

I know abortion is a touchy issue, I remember my boyfriend had an ex at one point was pregnant and got an abortion without telling him, without discussing it. And he was pissed. Very pissed. It should be discussed, but in the end (as he said himself), the woman is the one having the baby. She's the one who has the ultimate decision.

Basically: I don't care if you did it for pleasure. If you stick your penis in there willingly, then you are giving away your 'rights' to your genetic material. The woman's body kills most of that genetic material before it has a chance to get anywhere, so you're already being violated. Accept it.

 

[A Weakgeek]

This is probably the most fucked up thread I have seen in a long time.

Guess what buddy if you get a women pregnant it is your responsibility and you will have to deal with the consequences.

Also this thread is a prime example of why rednecks should not mix drugs and alcohol.

I think it's fine not to have one as long as 1, the mother doesn't try and guilt the father into giving her money, and 2, she is capable of bringing up the child well.

Tell me how is she supposed to be capable of bringing up the child on her own when she has to stay at home and raise a child instead of working? A women cant just pop a child out and go directly to work and govt child payments are generally not enough by themselves.

If you get a women pregnant and dont want anything to do with the child then it is and should be 100% up to her if you will pay child support or not.

THERE IS NO WAY THE WOMAN DIDIN'T KNOW THAT THEY HAD NO PROTECTION. Why does the man have the responsibility on protection? Its 100 times more easy for a woman to lie about protection since you can clearly see if a man has a condom or not. If you are going to keep a child no matter what then you should be prepared to support yourself. THE WOMAN has the choice here, before AND after sex. Why doesen't she have the responsibility aswell?
EDIT: I'm not mad, and as an afterthought all that caps wasn't a good idea

 

[Anti Nudist Cupcake]

Just don't have sex

I tried this, and it didn't really work out.

I know OP is kinda forcing too much here, but I always use a condom - then what happens if it breaks or is sabotaged? Do I still have a legal obligation to support what happens?

What happens if a woman actually manages to run off with a used condom?

I need answers

Answer: You are responsible. You should pay for the child you bring into the world.

Even when he did everything he could to prevent that?

I'm sorry, but that's just not an acceptable solution.

If 'he did everything he could to prevent that' then we wouldn't have to have this conversation.

This is really odd.

It's like... people should know the answers to these questions, yet seem to want a way out of responsibility.

EDIT: Just don't have sex in a way that can lead to pregnancy if you don't want to deal with the chance of having to be a responsible adult. Think about it. Be creative. The internet is full of ideas in this regard.

People want love, to be more intimate. They are going to want to have sex, should we punish them for this in the rare event of an accident? I don't think so. There has to be another way.

And no, if he did everything he could there would STILL be a risk of unwanted pregnancy, protection isn't foolproof.

 

[Dense_Electric]

Keep it in your pants or accept the responsibility.
Not to mention, you don't even need to accept the responsibility because men have the option of running away. It's the woman who generally has to look after the child, so it should be her choice whether she wants it. I cannot imagine a way she could MAKE you stay.
You did the deed, you deal with it.

Pretty much all of your opinions are ill informed and... wrong. I hate calling opinions wrong, but they so obviously are. Be reasonable. You're clearly genuinely ignorant on this matter.

Firstly, saying all children who grow up with just one parent or parents in a non-conventional relationship are screwed up is false. I know many who have become sensible, valued members of society with just one parent.

The reason such a double standard exists is because (in case you hadn't noticed) women are the ones who have to HAVE the baby. They are the only one responsible after the tadpole hits the bulls-eye as it were. Men don't need to be involved in a child's life, they have no legal obligation. If you don't want kids, don't have unprotected sex. If you want to be 100% sure, don't have sex at all or take one of the procedures available to stop you being able to.
Abortion is painful, traumatic and only free in very special situations. Clearly you've never had one or you wouldn't be spouting such ignorant crap.

Basically: I don't care if you did it for pleasure. If you stick your penis in there willingly, then you are giving away your 'rights' to your genetic material. The woman's body kills most of that genetic material before it has a chance to get anywhere, so you're already being violated. Accept it.

That's just the thing though, women don't have to be responsible for it these days. Don't want it, just have an abortion. And like I've been saying, if the mother can back out of the responsibility, so can the father.

Also, I've got to ask, why is it always the male who's responsible for getting the female pregnant? Unless it was rape or something, is it not just as much her doing as it was his?

 

[Kodachi]

The problem with European and North American (among other similar) justice styles is that precedence will always be the best defense, regardless of circumstance. If we all the sudden say "Yes, sign it into law", there will undoubtedly be mental anguish, particularly on the mother's side of the family, when she is literally *forced* to abort her child. OP used religion as a possible reason and though I'm semi-atheist myself, I would like to remind others who are at various levels of atheism that religion is not simply a computer chip of values and beliefs implanted in the brain, programmed by leaders to ensure the values of the flock match the values of the church (/synagogue/mosque/etc.). Religious individuals are often religious from very early in their lives and it shapes their own personal development. The beliefs of the religion have little to do with the individual in comparison to how those beliefs interacted with the person's moral development.


On the flip side, yes, the OP is correct in thinking that it can be socially damaging to the child growing up perhaps without the love of a father. From personal and professional experience however, I would argue that a child can still grow up healthy physically, mentally, and emotionally within a single parent household, meaning that if the father truly did not want a child, it is possible for him to be out of the child's life to the benefit of all involved.

On a side note... don't wanna kid? Use various methods of birth control or abstain. I swear I was the only one on Earth who paid attention in sex ed class.

 

[Anti Nudist Cupcake]

Even when he did everything he could to prevent that?

I'm sorry, but that's just not an acceptable solution.

But that is not doing everything to prevent that because doing everything would include not sticking your dick in somebody.

People want to love, to be intimate. Not all people do but certainly some people. We can't punish them if the protection fails. And it certainly CAN fail.

 

[ZeroMachine]

No.

What the fuck?

No!

What the FUCK?!?

OP, you have some serious thinking to do. The emotional ramifications of an abortion are brutal as is. Being forced to have one? I'd go so far to say that's a form of rape.

And if you don't want to pay for child support, too fucking bad. It's your child. It's a life you created. Support it in some way. But to force the mother to take care of it all by herself is just as bad as forcing fathers to take care of children all by themselves.

This entire thing is just fucking ridiculous.

 

[PeacanPie]

My stuff

That's just the thing though, women don't have to be responsible for it these days. Don't want it, just have an abortion. And like I've been saying, if the mother can back out of the responsibility, so can the father.

The father has always had the option to back out of the situation. It's called walking away. Why do you think single mothers exist? Just because someone you slept with is having a baby that doesn't make you legally responsible. Nor do I think it should. If a woman chooses to have a baby, she should accept that she can't bully or expect the man to help out. At the same time, it's sickening that men do just walk away. Unless they have a damn good reason, that life inside her is as much his doing as hers.
Not to mention, you make abortion sound like you go into a clinic, drink some medicine and it's all gone. It's painful. It's absolutely horrible. And there should be no way someone can force you into doing that.

 

[ZeroMachine]

No.

What the fuck?

No!

What the FUCK?!?

OP, you have some serious thinking to do. The potential emotional ramifications of an abortion are brutal as is. Being forced to have one? I'd go so far to say that's a form of rape.

And if you don't want to pay for child support, too fucking bad. It's your child. It's a life you created. Support it in some way. But to force the mother to take care of it all by herself is just as bad as forcing fathers to take care of children all by themselves.

This entire thing is just fucking ridiculous.

 

[SkyC]

The guy who posted this thread reads like an uninformed bigot. But the basic premise that "A man should have a right to his genes" is correct in my opinion. When you discuss rights you don't really talk about what is most likely to happen, you talk about all possibilities, especially worst case scenarios. Having the right to say what happens to your genetic material may not be a big issue in many scenarios but there are conceivable circumstances where this would be important.

Lets say a female wants to get preggers so she seduces a guy and lies about being on the pill (not unheard of). In this situation you have a not fully rational person controlling the genes of another human being.

Allow a man to renounce all his rights as a father/boyfriend/husband, for ever, and have a lifelong restraining order keeping him away from both mother and child, in exchange for not having to pay alimony? Yes, I could get behind that. But only if he's legally forced to never go near the child or mother again - otherwise, abuse and loopholes could arise.

Whichever works best to make sure deadbeat dads don't skip out for the first five years then show up on the woman's doorstep demanding to be a part of the child's life.

In this scenario that I am quoting here (if I am using the feature properly) you assume that the male is an asshole and not a victim. Some men don't want to abandon a child -and- don't want to be a father at the same time. I sense strong negative stereotypes in you, Araksardet.

Ultimately abortion in the first place is a hot-button issue with lots of close-mindedness. But I urge everyone here to consider all possible circumstances and all types of people involved on both sides before coming to which ever conclusion you feel is best.

 

[Mxrz]

I'd like to know just what kind of shitty ass condoms you are using in 2011 that break so fucking much then.

Don't want kids? Don't want STDs? Don't want to have to pay child support the rest of your life? Well, there is a damn easy way to avoid all three. Stop fucking, or at least stop fucking untrustworthy people. Its amazingly hard to do, but it solves a lot of problems. But this is probably just a troll thread or someone who's still underage.