Poll: Male reproductive rights

[Texas Joker 52]

I think the problem isn't the fact that its the man in those situations being blamed. In fact, that's only a symptom. The real core of it is a huge, seething ball of stupidity and irresponsibility. And, I have a solution that I think would solve most everyday cases of unwanted pregnancy without resorting to abortions and miles of bureaucratic forms. In fact, we already have the solution, we just need the government itself to get behind it and for parents, teachers, hell, most kids big idols and role models to actually teach them about it.

Its called safe sex. Using a condom.

What we need is to essentially have condom machines put into public places around the country where they can be seen, noticed, and used. They don't have to stand out, and they don't have to essentially have the centerfold of a Playboy on them to draw attention. Take a classy hotel room, for example. Its nice, cozy, and great for not only an out-of-town vacation or business trip, but also for quick sex. So, put a condom machine in the bathroom, on the wall just inside the entrance. And it can even look like its part of the decor and blend in without looking like it should belong in a cheap flea-motel.

I believe that schools should also lower the age at which they have sex-ed (if it already isn't lowered to the average age at which kids have sex), and make it legally REQUIRED to hand out condoms there. Yes, I know, parents are going to be angry, but the alternative is much, much worse: A 14 year old getting someone's daughter pregnant, or their own daughter happens to turn out pregnant themselves. What we need is to teach responsibility, we need parents to actually nip the problem in the bud when they talk to their children about the birds and the bees, while teachers in school need to REINFORCE it.

Now, while I'm rambling like a fourth-rate Yahtzee, I might as well address two things only partially on-topic:

First (and more minor of the two), yes, birth control is nice too, however it DOESN'T protect against STDs and isn't always effective, as far as I know. Then again, I could be completely misinformed, so don't quote me on that.

And Second, I'm going to go ahead and become flamebait on a very controversial topic and say, I feel abortions are, well, wrong. You happen to be ending a potential life, your own blood no matter how developed when you do that. I personally feel they need a chance to HAVE that life, for better or for worse, because you will never really know HOW they turn out, whatever position their parents are in. Though yes, I do agree that it is the choice of the parents, especially the mother.

Wow, wall of text. For those of you who hate walls of texts, tl;dr is this: Safe sex is the way to go. Always use a condom. ALWAYS. Those who are ABSOLUTELY SURE they want children are exempt.

Edit: Oh, and to cut off any retorts to the 'fourth-rate Yahtzee' bit, if any happen to be coming or if anyone cares, just know I love the guy. I wasn't meaning to make him sound bad, so much as say I don't nearly compare when it comes to rambling and rants.

 

[aashell13]

the answer to this question is extremely simple. you don't want a baby, don't have sex.

 

[lucaf]

Bear in mind that I'm pro-choice here, but you have to see the inherent hypocrisy in what you're saying.

Sorry but running away from your responsibilities just because you don't feel you can spare some cash isn't the same thing as making the difficult choice to have an abortion.

you really don't see how uneven it is? if a woman doesn't want a child she can choose to abort or adopt, with or without her partners consent. if a man gets a woman pregnant and doesn't want it, he still needs to pay for it. how is it fair that the woman can give up responsibility for the child, but the man can't? they are both as responsible for the conception

yes, it is running away from your responsibilities. but if women are allowed to run away from their responsibilities, why can't men? it is hypocritical to say that women can give the responsibility to raise a child, but men cannot

It's her body that's the difference in it's entirity.

You can't force a woman to have an abortion or even to give birth that's horrific and probably against human rights. Most men who complain about child support will never even bother with the child their entire lives apart from financially. A woman has to live everyday with the descision to have an abortion.

My sister had an abortion from a man who beat her. She still feels guilty about it and considers it traumatic. It's not the carefree decision you seem to think it is.

of course you can't force a woman to have an abortion or carry to term, that isn't what I am suggesting. what I am saying is that it is equally unfair to force a man to help raise a child he doesn't want. the conception was the fault of the woman as much as the man, but in the end she has the option to opt out of having the baby, while the man doesn't. despite having an equal part in the conception, he does not have an equal say on the decision

think of it this way; if a woman doesn't want a baby, and puts it up for adoption, she never has anything to do with it again. if a man doesn't want to have a baby, he has to financially support it for the next 18 years

while abortion is not an easy choice, it is still a choice they have available to them. men should be able to have a sort of contractual abortion where they effectively sever ties between mother and baby. you might see it as running away from their responsibility, but it is no more so than a woman giving up responsibility of her baby

 

[Epona]

Really, MOST men who complain about child support will never bother with the child itself? Got evidence to back that up?

Ever heard of PAS? Might wanna look that up while your at it.

My dad raised me better than my mom did, all while paying child support to my mom who used it to pay her own bills. Don't assume men are the ones being dicks here. Women can be selfish too.

If they do actually interact with the child then they are taking responsibilty and have nothing to do with my argument if you read my other posts.

If your mum was defrauding the child support then she should have been arrested, simple as.

So where is that evidence?

 

[Pierce Graham]

I feel I should hang this statement over this argument: NO, I'M NOT A SEXIST. That being said,
it should be a mutual agreement. If the woman says yes and the man says no, they should discuss it and attempt to reach an agreement. After all, they both pitched in to have the child, and yes, the woman has to carry and then birth the child, they should both have a say. After all, it's their child.

 

[Dys]

Bear in mind that I'm pro-choice here, but you have to see the inherent hypocrisy in what you're saying.

Sorry but running away from your responsibilities just because you don't feel you can spare some cash isn't the same thing as making the difficult choice to have an abortion.

you really don't see how uneven it is? if a woman doesn't want a child she can choose to abort or adopt, with or without her partners consent. if a man gets a woman pregnant and doesn't want it, he still needs to pay for it. how is it fair that the woman can give up responsibility for the child, but the man can't? they are both as responsible for the conception

yes, it is running away from your responsibilities. but if women are allowed to run away from their responsibilities, why can't men? it is hypocritical to say that women can give the responsibility to raise a child, but men cannot

It's her body that's the difference in it's entirity.

You can't force a woman to have an abortion or even to give birth that's horrific and probably against human rights. Most men who complain about child support will never even bother with the child their entire lives apart from financially. A woman has to live everyday with the descision to have an abortion.

My sister had an abortion from a man who beat her. She still feels guilty about it. It's not the carefree decision you seem to think it is.

Nobody claimed that having an abortion, giving up a child for adoption or being a single mother was a carefree decision (other than the OP, wh ohas been consistently disagreed with), the whole argument is that there is a massive hypocrisy within society about the issue. It is unquestionably wrong for a man to have power over a women, yet the current system wherein men have relatively little control over whether they are legally parents or not gives women a huge amount amount of power of men. A whole new relationship, based on having kids, can be forced upon a man when there is a pre-existing agreement for a completely different relationship.

Say you're in a casual relationship with a girl. You like her, you like hanging out and you like having sex with her. You've been sleeping together exclusively for, let's say, 18 months however the relationship is informal and has discussed plans of children or lifelong commitment. Then your girlfriend decides that she wants the relationship to get real, stops taking contraception (obviously without any discussion) and gets pregnant...How is it fair that the boy in this scenario has no power to opt out? The lady friend has basically forced him to be a father, even if he leaves her he will spend the next 18 years paying for a child that was born and the nature of the relationship was not such that being a parent was a reasonable possibility.

*edit*
Also, holy crap a lot of people are suggesting all men should use condoms, all the time. Just to be clear, having sex with a condom is not at all like having sex without. I don't see how a woman lying about being on the pill is any less culpable than someone lying about having an STI. If you've been with someone long enough for them to have had to deal with you while in a sound mind (ie not the drugged up chick you met at the pub last night) then claiming they should (unnecessarily) use a condom because the woman may be lying about their contraception use is a little disguising...Are women incapable of taking responsibility for anything in any way sex related? No? then fuck right off with that horrible argument.

 

[liveslowdiefast]

yeah but what your seggesting in essence is forced abortions,and thats not something i think our soceity should take part in. and i mean when they put their dick in a women they knew about this consequnces that come with that act. in my opinion.

 

[RachaelIsaacHill]

And real, non-Internet women are SO open to trying new things in the bedroom.

Think about it a minute... without turning this thread X rated (any more) you should be able to list at least 4 normal and acceptable ways that any regular couple could...

You know what, never mind. This website isn't the place for this. PM me if you can't figure this out on your own.

Knowing how to do it and being willing to do it aren't even in the same zip code. For example, somebody upthread mentioned mutual oral. Woman-on-man oral... commands a very high price on the open market, I'll put it that way. Man-on-woman oral often requires little more incentive than the awareness that the man will actually get to see and touch the relevant area on the woman.

Men's and women's libidos and general feelings about sex are very, very different. Go on, show me evidence that they're basically similar.

Me. Me, and all the other trans-gender-neutral people out there. Women and men are not as different as people assume.

 

[Meggiepants]

If a man doesn't want a child, he should be able to have control over what happens to his genetic material

He kind of does. He just has to avoid putting his dick in things with receptive ovums.

Seriously, guys, if you think this is a big problem, put some sperm on ice and get yourself a vasectomy. This may sound blunt, but you really do ultimately have control over your own sperm. Unrealistic? Maybe. But so is the idea that you are going to be running around forcing women to abort because you got too drunk to put on a condom.

Drunken sex qualifies as rape so if you were too drunk to put a condom on you shouldn't have to take care of the offspring (unless perhaps she was drunk too).

Soooo, drunk drivers should get a pass for killing people? Because being drunk, means you can do whatever the hell you want? Good to know.

This logic. I do not understand it.

 

[Ariseishirou]

No, no you can't. Most women would rather eat a gun barrel, especially if there's the tiniest chance they might have to taste male fluid.

You're going to have to cite sources to back that one up, because in my experience "most" women don't mind a bit. I'm willing to go out on a limb and wager that I have a larger sample size than you do, from the number of female friends I've had, all-female sports teams I've been on, and all-female organizations I've been a part of (e.g. Girl Scouts).

Honestly, I think you're completely full of it. If a woman is interested in a man (a woman, not an inexperienced teenaged girl) and sexually attracted to him, she'd be more than willing to suck him off. Especially if he's willing to reciprocate. Especially if he's good at said reciprocation.

If you're female and actually open to any of those ways, you are very, very unusual and should waste no time in accumulating a subservient man-harem if you haven't already.

Hah hah I've got no trouble getting laid if that's what you mean ;p But based on my experiences, certainly as a college co-ed, you're exaggerating to the point of ridiculousness what women are and aren't willing to provide for men to whom they're attracted.

 

[Jakub324]

I don't understand the belief that every egg cell has a right to life. An egg has no feelings, so it doesn't mind being dead. Moreover, what kind of life is when a kid spends all their time and money on drugs because their parents can't be bothered to raise them properly. SO that means I'm all for this consent form thing.

 

[RachaelIsaacHill]

Really, MOST men who complain about child support will never bother with the child itself? Got evidence to back that up?

Ever heard of PAS? Might wanna look that up while your at it.

My dad raised me better than my mom did, all while paying child support to my mom who used it to pay her own bills. Don't assume men are the ones being dicks here. Women can be selfish too.

If they do actually interact with the child then they are taking responsibilty and have nothing to do with my argument if you read my other posts.

If your mum was defrauding the child support then she should have been arrested, simple as.

So where is that evidence?

She wasn't defrauding, at least as far as I'm aware. Once the money went from my dad to her, it was legally hers to do anything with. It was understood, by the court and by my father, that the money would go to paying for things I needed, not my mom's leftover student loans from before dad and her even met.

 

[lucaf]

to everyone saying that if you don't want to raise a kid you shouldn't have sex, really? think about it.

a couple gets pregnant and the woman doesn't want it: abort

a couple gets pregnant and the man doesn't want it: tough luck, he is paying for the next 18 years

how is that balanced? the woman is just as much at fault as the man, and yet he doesn't have the option of not helping to raise a child

 

[RachaelIsaacHill]

No, no you can't. Most women would rather eat a gun barrel, especially if there's the tiniest chance they might have to taste male fluid.

You're going to have to cite sources to back that one up, because in my experience "most" women don't mind a bit. I'm willing to go out on a limb and wager that I have a larger sample size than you do, from the number of female friends I've had, all-female sports teams I've been on, and all-female organizations I've been a part of (e.g. Girl Scouts).

Honestly, I think you're completely full of it. If a woman is interested in a man (a woman, not an inexperienced teenaged girl) and sexually attracted to him, she'd be more than willing to suck him off. Especially if he's willing to reciprocate. Especially if he's good at said reciprocation.

If you're female and actually open to any of those ways, you are very, very unusual and should waste no time in accumulating a subservient man-harem if you haven't already.

Hah hah I've got no trouble getting laid if that's what you mean ;p But based on my experiences, certainly as a college co-ed, you're exaggerating to the point of ridiculousness what women are and aren't willing to provide for men to whom they're attracted.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

So where is that evidence?

I said the exceptions are outside my argument.

In fact why would a guy want a child but not want to support it financially?

What do they think they are a toy and can just come and go as they please?

 

[Sporky111]

I'm so happy I'm gay. I don't have to worry about accidental pregnancy (unless it's really accidental). No psycho chicks poking holes in condoms, or zealots refusing to get an abortion, or dumbass guys who don't know enough not to stick their dick in something without being prepared for possible consequences.

Okay, so I'm definitely not exempt from the last one.

Seriously, if homosexual intercourse could result in reproduction (c'mon, cloning technology!), I would say that heterosexuality has almost become maladaptive.

Well if you take out the need for reproduction, you'll probably find most species' particular adaptations becoming obsolete. If we could all reproduce without sex, I'm sure a lot of people would just get a vasectomy or tubectomy (whichever is appropriate for the gender) and not have to worry about it until they were ready to raise a child.

 

[Alex Gray]

You want me to show you evidence that libidos are basically similar?

Why would I do that even if I could?

Because that's basically what you're asserting.

Not sure what 'zip code' your from

You misunderstood my figurative language. I meant that knowing how to do something is not remotely the same as being willing to do it or having access to someone who's willing to do it, so much so that they practically have nothing to do with each other.

but I have no idea what you mean by 'high price on the open market'. I'm not talking about paying for sex.

Well, that's basically the only way male-on-female oral ever happens in real life. It certainly doesn't happen in ordinary relationships.

Either way, it seems you just want a 'dead beat parent' type law to get out of responsibility. Good luck with that.

I said what I "want" elsewhere in the thread - a humane, non-imaginary remedy for the male libido. As I stated in that post, I think a pharmaceutical solution is a lot more likely than one involving the participation of women. In that same post, I hinted at the misguided uselessness of any sort of law.

If I knew you in real life, I'd go buy you some contraceptive. You're going to need it, especially if your resorting to the services you mentioned before.

Now you're just getting personal.

EDIT: Seriously, where are you from?

Post reported for harassment.