Poll: ME3 EC didn't fix anything
- Thread starter Adam Jensen_v1legacy
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It's not quite as sad if you pick the Destroy ending for obvious reasons, but the Synthesis and Control endings make this scene more powerful in retrospect.undeadsuitor said:
Control you say you will watch over them from your god-throne in space and synthesis basically implies you are a part of them (and everyone one else in the galaxy). Neither of these two options involve you ever talking to them again (at least in this life). But wait... I just thought of something....
In the synthesis ending you see Kasumi reuniting with her dead lover who is in some kind of weird techno-ghost form. Does that mean Shepard can do the same? Lol force ghosts in Mass Effect.
Were some people absolutely oblivious? EA came out with it from the get-go, even said that it would only "expand" on the existing endings, not to fix anything. Though it's great to think that they almost consider this as charity, giving a mugging victim a branded coffee mug, that will cheer him up.
Nice thread here, love all the "Wah wah, Bioware needs to spendz 50 mill digitalizing my face onto Shepard perfectly while I get blown by 30 Asari" going on in this thread. Really destroys the imagine of gamers being a bunch of overly entitled twat donkeys bitching every step of the way when things don't go %110 their way.
Sorry, but from what I saw, the new EC does answer a lot of the inconsistency that followed. It doesn't explain all of them, but then again I always knew EA was never going to let this cash cow end without leaving behind room for more games to come. Now if you just don't like the endings than you're the problem; not the game. But don't throw in the word "plot hole" until it actually implies.
Sorry, but from what I saw, the new EC does answer a lot of the inconsistency that followed. It doesn't explain all of them, but then again I always knew EA was never going to let this cash cow end without leaving behind room for more games to come. Now if you just don't like the endings than you're the problem; not the game. But don't throw in the word "plot hole" until it actually implies.
The endings were never meant to fix anything, just make it less stupid by going into more detail.
Though in my opinion they failed there. I just can't find it in myself to care. When I saw the ME3 ending. I don't know what happened. It was just... so unfulfilling, so inconsistent, so pointless.
I just stopped caring. I watched the new endings. Was just as annoyed and irritated by them as a few months ago by the original stupid edition. Now I just don't care. Bioware hasn't been Bioware for a long time.
That was apparent by the mas banning of members who even DARED to complain about the endings or how much Dragon age 2 sucked nuts.
Bioware lasted longer than the other studios, but by the end, they all succumb to the EA virus.
Though in my opinion they failed there. I just can't find it in myself to care. When I saw the ME3 ending. I don't know what happened. It was just... so unfulfilling, so inconsistent, so pointless.
I just stopped caring. I watched the new endings. Was just as annoyed and irritated by them as a few months ago by the original stupid edition. Now I just don't care. Bioware hasn't been Bioware for a long time.
That was apparent by the mas banning of members who even DARED to complain about the endings or how much Dragon age 2 sucked nuts.
Bioware lasted longer than the other studios, but by the end, they all succumb to the EA virus.
Mind showing me a link to prove that?boag said:
It seems consistent with their general attitude through all of this, but... I'd still like to see where you're getting that from.
Also, I think I have a somewhat legitimate reason to be resentful of how badly the star-child botches things. Because I staked my grade in a university course on this series. I wrote a 20-page paper on this series and got an A that helped me earn my English degree that I recently completed. But now, thanks to these craptacular endings and how thoroughly they destroy the logic of the series, and betray the running themes of the series... now I'll always end up feeling that some part of earning my degree was unearned... or at least... that I should have gotten a lower grade on that paper for obviously reading far too much into this series, and giving its writers far too much credit.
Though I phrase it differently in the paper so as to help it fit the class better... the main running theme I'm referring to here is: "being victorious by uniting in spite of differences." This theme is utterly betrayed in every ending in some way. I'll spare you the somewhat lengthy analysis of each ending I could offer on this point (unless you want me to)... but here's the paper I wrote: http://social.bioware.com/project/8242/#details
While this paper is obstensibly about the entire series... only the first 2 games were out at the time... and I focused primarily on the first one. But thanks to the starchild's bullshit, large chunks of my paper, if not the whole thing, are either irrelevant or flat-out wrong now.
Thanks for that Bioware.
And if you're right, they think I'm a homophobe for not liking their bloody stupid endings.
I would just love to see them try to explain the massive leap of logic from 'I find your ending disappointing and well... a bit stupid' to 'you're a homophobe!'
Hm, not absolutely hating the original ending, I quite like these final cuts, I'm now for the first time considering replaying the entire trilogy again, since I know I /will/ get closure now.
But yeah, it does have massive plot holes, and yeah the space child as ass, I guess it just depends on what you're willing to look past.
But yeah, it does have massive plot holes, and yeah the space child as ass, I guess it just depends on what you're willing to look past.
That would be super creepy! Oh god! I think its bullshit that they haven't lowered the EMS requirements for the "breath scene" since it was an accident that it could only be unlocked by playing multiplayer (or a stupid iPhone app or whatever). I haven't played multiplayer in months and only got that ending because I promoted like 20 characters and had like 2000 points from them alone.undeadsuitor said:
I didn't have to play the last three hours. All you have to do is go into your save files and select "Restart Mission" and it will put you right before you face Marauder Shields. You can still see the majority of the changes. I havn't tried playing from Cerberus base, but I hear there are some minor changes throughout. I'll have to wait until I finish the game with my Renegade Shepard to find out.Adam Jensen said:
OT: I was completely satisfied with the EC. It solved my two biggest complaints about the ending (Mass Relays being destroyed, and no closure) and it actually made the final decision feel organic instead of just picking a choice simply because it is the Paragon/Renegade choice. It brought a lot more weight for me when making the decision for Control because it felt like taking the StarChild's place was the natural evolution of the character. And it felt very much like 2001: A Space Odyssey, and I adore that book.
Never been a big fan of the other endings though. Synthesis seems to take away free choice from all beings in the galaxy and Destroy just seemed to be causing so much destruction for no reason when Shepard could just control everything and be the Ultimate Protector of the Galaxy. Still, there is Space Magic, but there was also Island Magic in LOST, and I still loved that show.
We're happy, or I'm happy, because it actually solves the plot holes. The plot holes that you're mentioning aren't actually problems with the ending to some people. Skipping how your team isn't with you at the end and why your team was fleeing were more important plot holes.Adam Jensen said:
As for your other issues. The Protheans and the Star Childs creators fall under "The Ancients" plot device. With that particular plot device who and what they Ancients are and what they did are always left for the reader to assume. It's not so much a plot hole but rather a plot device. What ever the Protheans did it was very clear that they pulled one over on the star child because he basically admits that he knew about the Crucible in the past but thought he had eradicated the concept. One thing the Protheans could have done is discovered the Star Child, but not in time to destroy him. Then they induce some bad code into him to make him believe the Crucible is no longer a threat, and force Sovereign to need to come over and fix the code once the issue is discovered. However, the explanation is not necessarily.
You should really watch 2001 a Space Odyssey and 2010. In that story HAL is given an instruction that breaks him. In ME the "Ancients" created an AI and gave it one simple instruction. Negotiate a truce/peace between synthetics and organics. The problem with that instruction is that Organics need conflict in order to evolve, and ultimately synthetics need it as well to evolve. From that the only solution he was able to devise was to Harvest advanced civilizations that were about to create the conflict between synthetics and organics and "preserve" them similar to how Braniac did originally in the DC universe. In that Braniac would "preserve" one city and then blow up the civilization/planet so it wouldn't change anymore so he wouldn't have to collect it again.
It's the simple "we created a super AI and it went mad" plot. The Creators of the Star Child were the first victims, and he admits that they objected to being made the first reaper.
Edit
You might be more familur with the Sentinels in X-Men. They were also a Super AI given the instruction to "Protect Humans from Mutants". The AI ultimately concludes that all humans are mutants, and that humans must be protected from themselves. Then they concluded that the Sun was the source of all mutation and therefore they must destroy the Sun. That last part didn't work out too well for the Sentinals. I believe it ended only when they discovered that they were also mutating.
The ending was a lot better than it was, but I can't help but feel that the EC is how it should have been in the first place. That said, they're still not great and not quite the masterpiece ITheory was.
How I would have fixed the endings [minor spoilers]:
- Keep everything the same as they are in EC, HOWEVER:
- On Refusal, starchild shouts "so be it!", as he currently does, then...
- Shepard then wakes up in the room where TIM and Anderson died. Their bodies are not there though.
- Hackett messages Shepard: "Nothing's happening, must be a problem on your end lol" as he did previously (before the magical space lift), but this time Shepard actually gets up and presses stuff the command console and the crucible starts.
- Destruction ending happens, but only reaper tech is destroyed.
This way one of the endings is still IT, but they don't have to go to a lot of effort to prove it, and everyone is happy because this (truer?) Destroy ending doesn't kill the Geth and EDI.
How I would have fixed the endings [minor spoilers]:
- Keep everything the same as they are in EC, HOWEVER:
- On Refusal, starchild shouts "so be it!", as he currently does, then...
- Shepard then wakes up in the room where TIM and Anderson died. Their bodies are not there though.
- Hackett messages Shepard: "Nothing's happening, must be a problem on your end lol" as he did previously (before the magical space lift), but this time Shepard actually gets up and presses stuff the command console and the crucible starts.
- Destruction ending happens, but only reaper tech is destroyed.
This way one of the endings is still IT, but they don't have to go to a lot of effort to prove it, and everyone is happy because this (truer?) Destroy ending doesn't kill the Geth and EDI.
I liked it. I picked control originally and was annoyed that it wouldn't tell me how that went at all. I thought the indoctrination ending would have been stupid, essentially invalidating two of the options. Starchild thing... odd, not what I would have picked, but not terrible. As for people complaining about space-magic... was your explanation of Mass Effect really better than a flimsy excuse for space magic in the first place?
I'm now satisfied that the ending I assumed control would bring turned out to be correct, and that it didn't just feel like a rubbish cop-out money saving way of getting three endings for the price of one.
Haven't checked out the other endings yet, but put me on the happy side
I'm now satisfied that the ending I assumed control would bring turned out to be correct, and that it didn't just feel like a rubbish cop-out money saving way of getting three endings for the price of one.
Haven't checked out the other endings yet, but put me on the happy side
Actually, in the Extended cut you can. If you shoot him he just says "The cycle continues" and disappears, deactivating the crucible. Of course, everyone then dies and a beacon is left for the next generation of advanced life to warn them about the reapers.raptor1181 said:
They weren't completely clueless. They knew it was an energy weapon (a strong enough battery IS an energy weapon, you just need to focus it and direct it AKA the catalyst).mad825 said:
You don't always need to understand the grand purpose of a device in order to check whether it is turned on. In electrical terms, if it's got current flowing it's probably working (so long as you built the device right). Especially in something modular.
Think of it as a computer missing the CPU. The CPU is a black box, so the computer's true purpose is unknown, but it's easy to check and see if the rest of the computers components are powered up.
Yeah I agree with quite a bit, but most about the star child is explained during the optional dialogue you can have... It was an organic race that created the catalyst (the star child) to "oversee relations between synthetics and organics [hence being a catalyst]... to establish a connection" but it realised that any relationship always ended in conflict, so came up with the "new solution" of just killing everyone off before they could create AI's - the reaper's weren't used just to destroy the synthetics because the organics were at the level where they could just create more... so the creators of the catalyst became the "first true reaper" against their will, putting off the creation of synthetics for a while... to what end? I dunno... the system doesn't really seems to be changing, so it would have to depend on the reaper's wanting to "give organic life a chance" or whatever, but who knows... and they can't simply roam around the galaxy destroying synthetics because they'd ultimately face rebellion and/or be too thinly spread, AND he states that he was looking for other solutions than just pure harvesting...Adam Jensen said:
As for the crucible, that was explained too (though possibly only in the EC) - It worked like a huge battery that gave the citadel/catalyst the energy it needed for the "other options" - Synthesis, Destroy, Control - they were previously unavailable because the citadel didn't have to power to spread them around the galaxy - the crucible made that possible. Admittedly, this was bugging me too until I saw the dialogue, but it's run through here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czKq9H0tSCo) if you'd like to take a look...
Of course, that still doesn't resolve whatever the space magiced result of the synthesis ending was, but whatever. At least this resolves some of the stupidity/tom-foolery