Poll: Metal and it's Deterioration in the Pop Music World

[TSED]

Yeah, I was specifically taking well-known metal bands because if you go into unknowns you can prove any point you like. I could start going on about how all the real death metal's in Iran or whatever.

And I didn't complain about pop music destroying metal, I complained about the fans doing it. Furthermore, 'most' of those bands are from Sweden and Finland. They have very different music scenes over there than we do in North America. I don't see how you can make the claim that they're basically pop music, though, because that's its own genre. It's nothing like metal.

Plus, if you didn't notice, I much prefer the melodeath or melodeathdoom. Not much of that comes from the Americas. This is going to taint my personal opinion wildly.

(Not that it matters, but it's not really a 'we.' I'm Canadian, we have even worse metal up here. I can't actually go see much stuff live because only huge big bands tour close and tons of small bands don't have albums. I acknowledge my 'underground' knowledge is limited to those that upload stuff to youtube or have albums released which will always mean they're popular 'enough.')

 

[Varnick]

Lots of people are confusing "Poppy Metal Band" with "Popular Metal Band". For instance, Iron Maiden is a popular metal band, but by no means poppy (Someone will argue with me, showing what an idiot they are). I would say there probably is a correlation between instant popularity of a new band and it's lack of quality. It's sad that it works this way (less money for artists), but there are few good first albums that are well publicised, and plenty of bad ones that are. On a related note, I think the definition of "Metal" is becoming much broader and vague, which I don't see as a really good thing. I personally don't consider Underoath, Killswitch Engage (Although their cover of Holy Diver is fantastic) as metal bands, they're metalcore, which is a significantly more popular-influenced variant of metal. To reference the OP's problem, I would suggest European metal, in particular Scandanavian stuff. Of course, metal is a generic term, if you like Black Metal, for instance, there isn't really a poppy Black Metal band, so you could look there.

 

[The Black Adder]

Yeah, I was specifically taking well-known metal bands because if you go into unknowns you can prove any point you like. I could start going on about how all the real death metal's in Iran or whatever.

And I didn't complain about pop music destroying metal, I complained about the fans doing it. Furthermore, 'most' of those bands are from Sweden and Finland. They have very different music scenes over there than we do in North America. I don't see how you can make the claim that they're basically pop music, though, because that's its own genre. It's nothing like metal.

Plus, if you didn't notice, I much prefer the melodeath or melodeathdoom. Not much of that comes from the Americas. This is going to taint my personal opinion wildly.

(Not that it matters, but it's not really a 'we.' I'm Canadian, we have even worse metal up here. I can't actually go see much stuff live because only huge big bands tour close and tons of small bands don't have albums. I acknowledge my 'underground' knowledge is limited to those that upload stuff to youtube or have albums released which will always mean they're popular 'enough.')

Yeah those bands probably wouldn't be known to someone who only really listens to popular European bands that even the average metal-head (or even someone who doesn't listen to metal) has heard of or listens to. You are entitled to like what you want so don't take this too harshly. And how do fans destroy the music?

 

[vede]

It's media. That's what happens with any form of media. Lots of people try to emulate the popular stuff, and the popular stuff becomes the only type that's easy to find.

It's happening with games, music, movies, everything.

So, you have to try and find the less mainstream stuff, which tends to be different from the rest of it. Or you could find the mainstream stuff that still survives and is different at the same time, that's cool, too. Or you can just listen to the mainstream stuff, if you want.

Iron Maiden is good. I highly recommend Ария ("Ah-ree-uh"), a Russian metal band. Sure, you probably won't know what they're saying, but the music is good. Just listen to what you like to listen to.

 

[PersianLlama]

I must say, I love the Leprosy/Death avatar. And yes, most modern metal is crap.

 

[Not Good]

I have constantly read reccomentations of Iron Maiden. I know of Iron Maiden, and I enjoy Iron Maiden. So let's just exclude NWOBHM from the list for now, because all metal has been based off of it since it came out.

 

[Not Good]

If you do not enjoy Iron Maiden....
That's like saying "I love rock and blues" and hating Hendrix, Clapton, and B.B. King.

Let me restate what I JUST SAID:

I know of Iron Maiden, and I enjoy Iron Maiden.

 

[zen5887]

Mainstream music makes everything bad not because it rots away the 'musicianship' but because the mainstream has terrible taste in music. 'They' prefer rather simple songs that are a little catchy, that their relatively untrained ears can discern and digest. (Find me a music teacher that likes rap or hip hop, I dare you.)

How does the mainstream 'drain away musicianship'? It doesnt make you play worse...

If you'd reread that, you may notice I said it does NOT diminish musicianship.


As a matter of curiousity, what does your head lecturer teach? You didn't specify.

My mistake I misread.

He teaches Guitar, Bass and the Theory classes (composition and arranging). He is also the Musical Director of two of the bands. He plays guitar, bass, trumpet, french horn, piano and sings. Since I'ver known him I havnt heard him say anything bad about a style of music. I think people can learn a lot from him.

 

[Marbas]

Allow me to disagree. America has many, many great metal bands and contributes much to the evolution of the genre.

no from many a metal head, much like a lot of music, europe is the place. america is about the quick buck and all about how much money you can make

-Isis (Post-Metal)
-Mastodon (Metaaaaaal)
-Kamelot (Power Metal)

these bands prove my point about american metal and how much it sux, they aren't very good nor are anywhere near edgy, they are a rather generic sound

-Manowar (Heavy 80s Metal)
-Dream Theater (Progressive)
-Symphony X (Neoclassical)
-Iced Earth (Power Metal)

these guys aren't from today's metal they are 20+ years old, they are old school

Neurosis?
Earth?
Black Boned Angel?
The Angelic Process


I like sludge and drone.

 

[wdwyer]

The basic answer then, would be no. You just don't like the music. Just because they play it on the radio, or put it in guitar hero, or you hear it on a commercial doesn't make you dislike it; you dislike it because it is not appealing to you. My only suggestion for you is to go searching for some lesser known metal, and just experiment with new artists until you find one that you enjoy.

This is in direct contradiction with my enjoyment of Metallica. A prime example as they had very obviously diverted to more mainstream songs on the Black Album. On fanboyish note, I own all of Metallica's Discography from 1983-1991 including an original Garage Days Re-Revisited LP.

There inlies the question of Metalica. There are a lot of Metalica fans that were turned off by them going mainstream, simply put, many of them consider it "selling out". The flip side, was that Metalica saw the opportunity to increase their sphere of influence. They increased their fan base, unfortunately it came at a price of dropping a few of them.

It all comes down to what sound you personally like. There's always going to be someone else out there that likes what you do not.

 

[StatikShock]

*sigh* Really? You want to stoke this fire?

The problem with modern metal is not the mainstream, its not guitar hero, its not any silly shit you happen to think it is.

The problem with metal nowadays is people like you, "Not Good" people whose scope of metal is so infinitesimal in the giant genre that is metal. Opinionated fucks like you who somehow think that what you think is law. God forbid someone disagree with your tastes, or have their own original thoughts. You are the antithesis to what the entire genre is about.

As a quick side note: I dislike DF, but I tend to dislike Power Metal as a whole, with exceptions (such as Blind Guardian), I have gone to see Children of Bodom numerous times (including their first time in the states back in 2000). Underoath I could care less about either way.

I'd be willing to wager I've been listening to metal for a lot longer than you, and you somehow latched on to some "oldschool" bands as the "true" metal. Sorry, I am a METAL FAN, I listen to multiple sub genres, I even listen to Blues and some underground hiphop (BLASPHEMY!).

Everything is only what you make of it. Metal is fucking HUGE in europe. Dimmu Borgir have performed at the Norwegian grammys. Lordi won Eurovision (although you could argue that they are more hard rock). Musicians care about their music over there, and don't get hung up on their popularity. Only with these fucking wannabe metalheads do you hear shit like "THEY SOLD OUT" or "THE MAINSTREAM MENTIONED THEM, OMG THEY SUXOR NAOW." Grow the fuck up, seriously.

Agent CLXXI (or whatever), sorry, but you are wrong. I can actively like and enjoy rock and blues, and still dislike hendrix, king, etc.

Just as I like and enjoy metal, but I wont listen to Iron Maiden. I appreciate what theyve done for the genre, but they arent my cup of tea, sorry, its true.

TSED - you are taking a strangely arbitrary stance on CoB. I hardly think nearly an entire album about Alexi's suicide attempt and depression qualifies as "meaningless" Unless you are working off of an entirely different concept of "meaningless" that I am. You can not like the music that a band puts out, I certainly don't like everything out there.

*******************************
tl;dr - Your complaints are meaningless, open up your mind without letting shit fly right through, and maybe you wouldnt take such vapid stances on one of the most diverse genres of music in the world.

 

[Dele]

Welcome to capitalistic community citizen Not Good. To support the music industry, you are expected to BUYBUYBUY, the quality of the songs doesnt matter as long as it sells good.

 

[Not Good]

Statik Shock, I think you have stereotyped me far too soon. You think that I am a purist and only "stick to the roots" and that I think that everything else is shit. I do happen to enjoy rap, but it's becoming increasingly hard to find any that is decent where I live (Out here in the bay, it's all about Mac Dre and Thizz Nation and whatever). If we went further back than my highschool years, I listened to more classical music more than anything, and I still enjoy going to Jazz Concerts with my Dad.

In any case your reply was more about stereotyping me as the guy that sits in his room all day criticising much of what I see out beyond my house walls while still listening to my Black Sabbath and Slayer CD's, then actually answering the question I presented.

 

[StatikShock]

Because you didn't pose a question, you made flame bait. You took a bad argument and made it worse by presenting your opinions as fact. I do not think of you as a "purist," I think of you as one of the "new metal fans" who latched on to old school metal as a way to set themselves apart and somehow feel superior to their peers. All you have done is jump on the "OMG METAL HAS SOLD OUT" (and the related "OMG DRAGONFORCE SUX CUZ THEY AR IN GH") bandwagon like so many other "true metal fans."

And I stereotyped you as an idiot. Period.

 

[searanox]

Mainstream music, metal included, tends to be in the mainstream precisely because it is poppy, accessible and easy to listen to. This also generally means no challenging lyrical subjects, no unconventional songwriting, no originality, etc. The media is going to cater to the largest audience, even if they are appealing to a niche genre like metal. The media itself doesn't corrupt those bands, despite the fact that some bands do express a desire to become more successful financially and are willing to sacrifice their sound to change things.

Metal has become trendy recently, but I think that the trend's size is exaggerated; the Internet makes that type of music more visible, and certain types of people are probably going to be listening to metal anyways, so they'll find themselves drawn together because of their other similar interests.

It's also worth noting that, despite the trendiness of metal, the most popular bands are generally the worst bands, and that's often because the new fans that latch onto it rarely go beyond those first few bands they're exposed to and develop a deeper understanding of what actually makes good metal to begin with; for many people, it just comes down to how technical the music is, how abrasive it is, how deep the growls are, etc. I've found maybe one or two people in my entire life who actually listen to the same music I do. One of them has close musical taste to me, and is an idiot stoner who I haven't seen or spoken to in years, and the other is a friend of mine from my university whose taste is decent, but certainly not infallible (he also doesn't have too much understanding of different genres, histories, influential bands, etc.). In other words... I've met tons of people who listen to Metallica. Hundreds. But how many of them listen to Overkill, or Hirax, or Demolition Hammer? I see people with Cannibal Corpse shirts fairly often, but when's the last time I saw a Bloodbath shirt, or Edge of Sanity, or Vader, or Decapitated, or Deströyer 666, or Gorguts? Yeah, probably... I'm going to say never. I've even got into conversations with people who have recognised that I listen to metal, but when I list off the bands I'm into, they have no idea what I'm talking about and go back to telling me I have to get this great album by Iced Earth, which is the most underground band ever, apparently.

I'm not at all against new metal in any way. I do have a fondness for second-wave black metal bands, as well as older thrash metal (despite not having too much knowledge about it), and I especially like some of the older Swedish death metal, but there's nothing about the new bands that I don't like. It's particular genres, like metalcore and deathcore especially, as well as some parts of power metal, folk metal, and progessive metal, that I look at with distaste if not outright disgust. A lot of that music is popular, and a lot of it is just bad. It's not so much that there's more bad music being made these days, because that's not true, but because metal is getting trendy and more popular, the bad music tends to get more exposure. In some ways, you have to dig a bit deeper than you used to in order to get to the good stuff. It's harder and harder to find a good death metal band these days without running into another hundred "brootal" Immolation clones, or some crummy metalcore groups that decided that new In Flames is the greatest thing ever in music, or a folk metal band that thinks it can get by with substanceless, banal violin wankery just because it's "ethnic" enough to get a free pass with the kids who are astounded by the fact that THERE IS THIS BAND THAT HAS AN ACCORDION OH MY GOD!

 

[superbleeder12]

This discussion is pretty foolish.
'ooh its mainstream so its crap' that argument is so re-hashed and overused, its like the riffs in a lot of disturbed songs.

go back to the basement, where you belong. So what if some band sells out, or makes 'crappy music' they are making more money than you. Go tout your elitist bumbling somewhere else.

I listen to underground stuff, and some mainstream stuff. I enjoy finding new bands that do something interesting, but I also like the mainstays, bands who are generally fun to listen to.

Moderation in all things (much like this post will probably get)

 

[Fruhstuck]

The same argument with regards to music always comes up and it bugs the shit out of me

It's all been done before

right, ok, let's analyse that one, people will always smack (i.e. be similar too but will differ from, hence producing an evolving music culture) of the music stylings of the people who came before them ALWAYS; because people have to get their influence from somewhere
Does this mean that they shouldn't make the music they wanna make though?
No, it doesn't, it means you (the person whinging that it's all been done before) needs to fuck off and adjust your expectations
Find a band you think is original, ask someone who's been in that genre 5 more years than you and they'll be able to list 10 bands who did your "original" bands stuff before they

Not Good: this is not an attack on you at all, just a personal rant for me really

 

[Jharry5]

Metal, for me, has always meant 'anti-mainstream', so when they use their songs on mainstream media it does go against the fundamentals of the genre.
I can see where you're coming from about Drangonforce - apparently they're atrocious live because no one can replicate that kind of speed without some form of technical interferance. I had heard of them before GH3, but didn't think a great deal about the over-production (that came later when I couldn't play that damn song...)
So yeah, I agree with you.

 

[TomNook]

I was laughing my ass off at all of those die hard Slipknot fans when the group was the MTV music awards.