Poll: MMO's don't require skill.
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No, you've put up a point that doesn't have much to do with my point, at all. You're talking about something completely different. Since you still don't quite get that, I'd say my namecalling, if a bit uncalled for, is pretty much justified, in the same way I think it'd be justified if someone started talking about how good a unit in Starcraft is when talking about redalert. It's sort of related, sure, it's about games, and the same type of games even, but it doesn't really say anything about the subject at hand. You're ignoring the subject I brought up, and still try to argue against my points.Jumplion said:
Then how do you know if the program is actualy playing another game instead of just telling you that it is? I can tell you all about how i'm currently wtfpwning in arena and give a list of numbers supposedly reffering to my talent spec but that doesn't change the fact that my wow account is disabled atm because of financial troubles. If you get a program that can take a lvl 50 wow account and spit out a 55 wow account a day later with all quests between lvl 50 and 55 completed and cleared BRD in the process, then i'll believe you that your application can play mmos.Silver said:
Arguing for your points is a bit late since I already gave up the argument we had. You can keep defending your points to people, just not with me. We've been there and done that.Silver said:
The debate we had was fun while it lasted, but let's not continue it unnecisarily.
Almost all games require skill to a certain degree. MMO's and RPG's tend to have far more that needs to be tracked all at once, depending on party size for MMO's. If two large groups are versing each other in PvP say, the volume of info that has to be tracked (buffs, pets, party health for healers, and what have you) means being able to multitask and sort through it quickly.
I don't play many FPS's simply because I'm wierd, but I'm sure beyond quick judgement and hand-eye coordination other skills would be required.
And both FPS's and MMO's can foster team work.
I don't play many FPS's simply because I'm wierd, but I'm sure beyond quick judgement and hand-eye coordination other skills would be required.
And both FPS's and MMO's can foster team work.
An mmo requires that you know and understand your limits.
An FPS requires that you push and test your limits.
An FPS requires that you push and test your limits.
It really depends on the MMO. There's a France-based Strategy MMO I used to play, called Dofus, which was turn based.
I quit because levelling took an obnoxious amount of time and quests yielded on average 500XP (you need 1,000,000XP total XP to get to level 35 or so), and the level cap was 200 (you stop gaining new abilities at 100 but continue to gain stats and point to level abilities afterwards), so it catered to the crowd with nothing better to do but grind.
Anyways, it did take skill and strategy as a turn-based team combat MMO. If this sounds appealing to you, try googling it. On a side-note, if they basically started you at level 100 with stats to place and all of your abilities already, it would be a much more fun game.
I quit because levelling took an obnoxious amount of time and quests yielded on average 500XP (you need 1,000,000XP total XP to get to level 35 or so), and the level cap was 200 (you stop gaining new abilities at 100 but continue to gain stats and point to level abilities afterwards), so it catered to the crowd with nothing better to do but grind.
Anyways, it did take skill and strategy as a turn-based team combat MMO. If this sounds appealing to you, try googling it. On a side-note, if they basically started you at level 100 with stats to place and all of your abilities already, it would be a much more fun game.
The way most people play traditional PvE MMORPGs, they take absolutely no skill.
Let's say you're on the hunt for new gear. Do you?
A) Go collect a bunch of loot, then compare the various stats, and decide what fits your character the best?
B) Determine what stats you need, then go to MMOWEBSITE to find out what has it, then go after it?
C) Go to MMOWEBSITE, find out what the optimal build is, then grind the hell out of what it tells you too till you get there.
Most people I've talked to advocate playing like C. I think it goes without saying that C take no skill and little effort, apart from free time, and button mashing. Sure, someone needed to figure out that build, but it wasn't you, and so it took you NO skill to do that.
Another little test.
You fight a boss with a party / raid and try a new strategy. What happens?
A) Everyone gets together afterwards and discusses how the strategy could be better.
B) Everyone yells at you for not doing it the way that everyone else does, and tells you that you suck at the game, and shouldn't be in the guild.
Guess which one is the activity of a skill-based game, and which one isn't? Doing things the same way as all the other people is not a skill. Any game that encourages you to play it in exactly one way takes no _real_ skill to play. AND, every time that you tell someone they're doing it wrong because they don't follow everyone's lead, you are ADMITTING that your game takes no skill.
As another analogy; back in the day of test-based adventures.... finding the play though of the game and typing the commands in the order given takes as much skill as looking on whatever MMO site and following those directions to bring down RAID BOSS.
Follow ups to predicted criticisms:
No, I'm not JUST some bitter player. I can follow directions as well as anyone else. I just don't find it challenging.
'Well *I* don't play the game that way' Bully for you. I'm obviously not talking about you.
Let's say you're on the hunt for new gear. Do you?
A) Go collect a bunch of loot, then compare the various stats, and decide what fits your character the best?
B) Determine what stats you need, then go to MMOWEBSITE to find out what has it, then go after it?
C) Go to MMOWEBSITE, find out what the optimal build is, then grind the hell out of what it tells you too till you get there.
Most people I've talked to advocate playing like C. I think it goes without saying that C take no skill and little effort, apart from free time, and button mashing. Sure, someone needed to figure out that build, but it wasn't you, and so it took you NO skill to do that.
Another little test.
You fight a boss with a party / raid and try a new strategy. What happens?
A) Everyone gets together afterwards and discusses how the strategy could be better.
B) Everyone yells at you for not doing it the way that everyone else does, and tells you that you suck at the game, and shouldn't be in the guild.
Guess which one is the activity of a skill-based game, and which one isn't? Doing things the same way as all the other people is not a skill. Any game that encourages you to play it in exactly one way takes no _real_ skill to play. AND, every time that you tell someone they're doing it wrong because they don't follow everyone's lead, you are ADMITTING that your game takes no skill.
As another analogy; back in the day of test-based adventures.... finding the play though of the game and typing the commands in the order given takes as much skill as looking on whatever MMO site and following those directions to bring down RAID BOSS.
Follow ups to predicted criticisms:
No, I'm not JUST some bitter player. I can follow directions as well as anyone else. I just don't find it challenging.
'Well *I* don't play the game that way' Bully for you. I'm obviously not talking about you.
Littaly said:
The reason why us anti-social hermits can never get that deep into a MMORPG and end up complaining about how they are skill-less wastes of time probably has a lot do with this. A lot of us don't like having to deal with strangers or coordinate all our friends to play. We just want to play a good game that doesn't demand massive social obligations from us...
...which might be a fair indication we've got the wrong genre.
Respect.Belair 1955 said:
In my opinion, as Belair points out here in a nutshell, there are different types of skill!
One cannot simply define "skill". "Skill" is just as broad a term as "smart". One could be a math genius and not know two shits and a damn about english or grammar.
I have a friend who has a certain gift with FPS games, but when it comes to any other gameplay that doesn't involve a gun, he's... er... embarrassing. Sorry Chris, if you ever read this
Guild Wars reference! You win. (not sarcastic)pantsoffdanceoff said:
It takes a certain amount of skill, sure. Sort of like how 2Fort takes a certain amount of skill. (For those of you not following along at home that means that MMOs take a different kind of skill)