Poll: New forum rules - Yay or Nay?

[Tsaba]

You would think with new rules would come a clean slate, everyone starts over. I just think it's messed up that there are things being held against us from a while ago, it's a bit too silly if you ask me.

 

[Outright Villainy]

Getting warnings put on my permanent record is ridiculous, since I got warnings for the most minor of reasons, as does nearly everyone who did. Also, having some minor reason or a contrary mod be the reason for a full ban on a minor offence seems silly.

So yeah, not a fan.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

Permanent probation!?!? How are you going to achieve that? What good will it do that for the rest of your existance on the Escapist you are being treated on the same level as a pesky dog who sometimes craps on the carpet?

I like how they specified the "don't be a dick" rule, but ad blockers are on the same level as pedophilia? Really?

I liked the old ones better.

 

[Verlander]

I shall post this before I see them: They need to sort out their punishment system. Some people get severely punished for nothing, some people throw out massively hateful rants and barely get a slap on the wrist. Standardise the punishments.

Reads new rules.

Ok, well I wish they'd had the appeal/4 warning system up a lot sooner. I got given a probation for having bad language in my post (not hateful, nor directed at anyone, just bad language. Yeah, that's right) out of nowhere, and under the assumption that mistakes can be made, I contacted The Escapist under the impression that a mod had got the wrong end of the stick, a cultural misunderstanding. I have never received a reply, and it's cost me those Matrix badges that you get on your profile. As I go out of my way to try and contribute politely and be respectful, it's still a massive kick in the nuts.

Also, define racist? I see loads of Anti-British stuff that never gets reported or punished, so is slamming my country ok? Or do we need different coloured skin, or a different language to be protected? Same with Anti-Americanisms. I'm not talking about disapproving of the politics of a country, I'm talking about open bad mouthing, use of negative stereotypes and general abuse.

How did you post before seeing the rules?

I edited the comment after reading them. This was my first post since they came out

 

[subtlefuge]

I personally find it fair. Unless someone is getting retroactively banned during the conversion, (which I haven't heard about) then you always have a chance to turn around.

I received my first and only warning maybe a week ago, and since then I've been extra careful to be polite. I mean, as long as you're civil and contribute, the mods are lenient. There's also a fantastic user group where they regularly accept and field questions about policy.

You should not worry about getting banned, you should worry about being a better member. The Escapist has a lax policy when it comes to the nitpicking things, and there are absolutely no trivial rules. If you want an example of a system that is really whips and chains, head over to Something Awful and take a look at their rules.

The Escapist is very, very open and kind.

 

[Dr. Pepper Unlimited]

How did you post before seeing the rules?

He/she was probably typing that, knowing that he/she hasn't read the rules yet and they would pop up after he/she tried to post that comment - then they added to the post after reading the new rules.

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

*snipped*

Hi Spin quoting you because I think this is your domain:

This includes, but is not limited to communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give The Escapist, an individual creator, advertiser, site sponsor, product, group, government or nation a negative image. In short, if you say something you better be able to back it up with fact.

Is that bolded bit there ^^^ just standard legal-ese to disassociate The Escapist with any negativity aimed at America/American government by posters or is it an actionable offence? I infer that it's just for when people are being dicks and saying "Lol.America." to a random news post but I thought it would be prudent to check.

We can't be perverts anymore!? WHAT!? The likely hood of me getting banned in the next few days is very great now.
-image-

That was in the rules? Great, there goes half the forum.

...and the rant rule gets rid of another third


Personally even though these rules were always there unspoken having them explicitly stated intimidates me a bit.

Yup, exactly. We didn't want it to include just The Escapist or just America. Overall, we are asking people just to not say mean and slanderous things that aren't true.

As for rants, people can still let loose in a forum thread, we ask that they have a point, make sure it adds or helps discussion and that the caps and swearing are negated. Some of the best debates have a 3 paragraph "rant" but there is reason and purpose for it. Just blasting out an opinion because of hate or anger does not benefit discussion, it only stops it.

Thank you for clearing that up. I thought that would be the case but better safe then sorry and all.

 

[Chainsaw_Chuck]

Just going to take a look.

 

[Ensiferum]

I'm not sure how I feel about the changes; will have to wait and see.

 

[Farson89]

Haven't seen them, just let me post and we'll see...

Basically what I expected, more of the "DON'T SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE EVER" stuff that defines the moderation of these forums. Eh, I don't post here nearly enough for this to affect me.

 

[GeorgW]

You guys are posting too fast, and I'm trying to keep up as best I can, so sorry if I've already been ninja'd.

And really, the mods aren't perfect. If one gives you a stupid sentencing that they then refuse to revoke even though you see it as unfair, as does everyone else in the thread, then that gets counted against you forever.

And that's why there's an appeal system.

OK, but without diving into my own specific example, that's what I meant by "refuse to revoke".

I like it, it'll make my job a bit easier cuz less people will complain about inconsistency. If you have any questions about the new rules, please address them here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/chat/Moderation-Team].

Why don't you have a FHM?

Because I don't know what you mean. Mind explaining?

Forum health metre.

I do, it's empty.

No, none of the mods do. Empty ones still show a grey bar.

I can understand SpinWhiz, but is this not unfair considering you're still general users?

I can see my own, so maybe it's just hidden? I can see that not really being fair, but what if people were to learn our dark pasts??? It'd be anarchy!!

 

[Aidinthel]

Haven't read the rules, but my forum health bar is empty. "Good work, citizen!" it tells me. For some reason that wording makes me a bit nervous.

 

[Whateveralot]

Just like gaming, there will eventually be regenerating health.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Given that I've had probations revoked because it was an overzealous moderator or reported wrongly I wonder whether that would count as taking back my 'forum health meter'

I don't like the idea of a forum health meter in general, because I think the same problem as the OP brings up. One probation and then you're probated for life, and even if you spent the entirety of the rest of your time on this site being a perfect poster you'll still never have recognition for that? It seems to me like it would drive people away. Certainly if I knew I would never get rid of the probation mark I'd probably just stop posting here.

Also, the rules for 'offensive' posts remain as vague as ever. Any post that anyone could potentially find offensive? You'd never post anything. I find swear words offensive in most contexts, do I report everyone who uses a swear word? Fuck no. Anything political, anything religious, anything about morality, or piracy, or even little things like whether you like or dislike a game can be construed as offensive by someone somewhere and I know that some of my posts have been misreported by people who took offence to my most carefully worded response.

I think the forum health meter needs to go, and the ruling for offensive posts needs to be heavily tightened up so we know exactly what construes an offensive vs non offensive post.

EDIT: Upon further inspection, I have apparently received a warning, but there is no way for me to know where or when I received it, and my memory isn't quite that good. Which rbings the problem up again. I might have received that warning as long ago as August 2009, and never been in trouble since, and so I have no idea of knowing what exactly it was I did that got me in trouble, so I don't know to not do it again.

If the forum health meter stays, then it should link to the post you got a warning for.

 

[Spinwhiz]

I find it rather unfair that there's absolutely no way to clear your record. Everybody slips up now and then. I'm usually the first to advocate harsh punishment for infractions, but this is ridiculous. With harsh punishments should come rewards for good behavior. So if you've not committed any infractions for a certain amount of time, your 'forum heath meter' should go back down.

Nobody should be able to slip up 8 times and being given more chances. If anyone can't learn how to be respectful and follow our rules after what is pretty much 8 infractions, they shouldn't be here.

Not even if the infractions are upwards of 6 months to year apart? Maybe even 2 years or more? 'Cause clearly if that's the case, that's not a person who's out to cause trouble; that's a person who just got a little carried away one day.

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

wont most of the determined trolls just make more accounts?

We have ways of getting rid of duplicate accounts. Those will automatically be permabanned.

 

[Canid117]

The conversion from past history into the current forum health meter is actually quite lenient. two examples:

Then I am probably going to be banned sometime in the next three months or so because I have a lot of minor infractions under my belt. I see much use of the ban hammer under this policy.

Three suspensions, ten probations, and five warnings. Two offenses this month alone! Good luck making it three months, but unless you clean up fast you're going to be lucky to make it through June.

Over the course of three years? I have seen worse on these forums. If you find my behavior to be offensive at times I apologize but I try to avoid personal attacks and I do feel genuinely bad about calling Jim Sterling fat. I meant it as a physical descriptor and nothing more and once again I apologize.

 

[Feralcentaur]

...Wait, if you're not allowed to advocate any thing that's illegal in the U.S., doesn't that mean that you're no longer allowed to argue for Homosexual marriage or the use of Marijuana then?
Or do those not count since it's different for different states?
Or would they only count as breaking the rules if the person were to specifically say,
"Hey, you should do (thing that's illegal in the U.S.) in the U.S."?

We have ways of getting rid of duplicate accounts. Those will automatically be permabanned.

So you have a method, but you're not going to tell us what it is?
That means that either there's some super sneaky clever method to find duplicate accounts that could be gotten around if they just knew what the method was, or you're bluffing and there's no way to prove that you're not bluffing unless if you actually did have a super secret method and admitted what it was to everyone or if everyone were to make their own duplicate account just to see if they'd get banned! Hmmm...

 

[CarlMin]

I'm already close to probation and I have absolutely no idea what I've done. Strange...

 

[ShadowKatt]

Well this'll be fun. I'm not going to last much longer obviously, and it's going to be fun to watch the entire Religon and Politics forum go down in flames.