Poll: New forum rules - Yay or Nay?

[awesomeClaw]

UPDATE

As of right now, we have implemented a new system due to community feedback and to continually make these forums a better place. From now on, every 6 months a strike will be taken off your forum health meter for good behavior (meaning you have no infractions). After 2 years of no infractions, your infractions will be completely cleared.

Please note, this does not mean that every 6 months you can afford an infraction. If we see that you are playing the system, our moderators will hold you accountable.

You will see these changes taking place over the next 24 hours for those of your with no infractions over the last 6 months or 2 years.

[Update: The changes are already in place, and have run for the first time. -Virgil]

Wow, an official mod announcement? In my puny little thread?!

Anyway, this adresses my issues with it. It´s fine now, Much better then the last system. And to think, if i hadn´t created this thread, would this change have gone through?!

I sincerly hope you´ll document me in The Escapist official history book. (I´m assuming you have one of those. You do, right?)

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I've asked Spinwhiz what this rule is about, and it's not about talking about pedophilia. He said that it's about saying that you're a pedophile. Therefor, discussion about it is still allowed.

I find it funny that a site which advocates free speech doesn't allow people to admit their sexual preferences. I think what the mods need to do is remember that pedophilia is not the act of engaging in sexual activities with a child. Pedophilia means being sexually attracted to prepubescent or early puberty kids/teens. Now I'm not a pedophile but I see no reason why pedophilia shouldn't be treated as a mental health issue rather than a criminal one.

Being a pedophile is in fact perfectly legal, engaging in sexual acts to children is what's not. There are truly people out there who do not feel sexually attracted to persons of their age group. There's no reason to paint them as the devil. If this rule would be in effect, giving that it's a health issue, people should not be able to claim they're cancer/AIDS/MS sufferers. As it stands, there's no reason why someone shouldn't be able to admit they're a pedophile. Remmeber, peodophilia is a mental disorder.

 

[Whytewulf]

I was refferig to the health bar, not the overall rules. I should have been more clear. I don't have a problem with guidelines, hence again I am clean. But I think some long term forgiveness is acceptable.

As far as driving some people away. Well as I work for a company, that relies on it's customers. I don't want to drive any away. But in some cases losing a few bad apples, makes it better for everyone. Again, we shall see. I am more worried about the ever changing content. I get to like something and it goes away.

 

[powell86]

Wow, an official mod announcement? In my puny little thread?!

Anyway, this adresses my issues with it. It´s fine now, Much better then the last system. And to think, if i hadn´t created this thread, would this change have gone through?!

I sincerly hope you´ll document me in The Escapist official history book. (I´m assuming you have one of those. You do, right?)

I honestly think you have created a wonderful threat. You kinda hit paydirt as it is really a pertinent topic in many of our minds. Nonetheless, hats off to you sir. May you continue to bask in your moment of glory haha. I wonder if they give any badges for a thread that has made significant contributions for fellow escapists haha.

And I'm quite sure many people will be happy with this slight modification of forum rules.

 

[BabyRaptor]

Yeah, not liking the new rules much. The permanent probation thing is unfair. So is the "health meter." Warnings should disappear after you've proven you got the point.

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

I like to think that I helped in making these rules.

 

[theultimateend]

I know it's hard to think of us as people, as opposed to some big faceless company, but we are.

Your website is comprised of only like 20-30 people isn't it?

For in-house folks, yep, that's about right.

Kinda figured. You are about the size of the company I work for.

We deal with the same thing.

"You guys probably make like a million dollars a month!"

...this isn't Activision . We could fit our entire company in two vans.

So I feel your pain. G/L with the debate .

 

[Ramare]

I don't like them. I like the way it was before; it was a touch random, yes, but it was fair, and rather lenient on those that really weren't trying to break the rules.

A warning was that: a warning. You were a jerk, or you accidentally broke a rule. You'd be quietly PM'd about it, and you'd know that you inadvertently broke a rule, or you were a touch too close to being a real asshole to somebody. You'd try not to do it again, or not. Depends on the person. And that was end of story.

A probation was a minor hindrance. You were an asshole to somebody specific, and you got a slap on the wrist. Keep behaving like that, and you're going to catch more flak. So, either you do, or don't. Again, depends on if we're actually talking about a malicious soul.

A suspension was sad. You did something bad, but not too bad, or a lot of minor things in quick succession. You had posting right revoked. You could read the forums as much as you wanted...but you couldn't add to the discussion, give your opinion, maybe not even give a vote to a poll. If you weren't asking for this by being a bastard on purpose, this saddened you. You'd shape up, and become a great member of our community, or if you're just a troll, well, we're free of your BS for X time, until you finally get yourself banned.

A ban was pathetic. You were a troll, an advocator of child pornography, or a grade A douchebag. You seriously went so far the first time, or so far so quickly, that we had to ban you. It's sad, really. The Escapists are generally better than that.

Anything you said that wasn't removed, and indeed, your profile, will be left there.
An example to all.

These new rules, well, they're harsher. Warnings are now a part of the punishment board.
Probations take a massive six months, at the least, to disappear (If I even read that right, that is...), and a lot of minor infractions over the years could catch you a suspension, maybe even a ban. Again, not sure if I read that correctly; but even then, it still worries me a touch. Maybe it won't be so bad; I just hope that when we decide to change the rules back, or tone them down a tad, it isn't because a very good veteran, catches the banhammer with their teeth, because they slipped up one too many times throughout the years...

Edit: Alright, yes. Reading the last posts on the topic, after reading the first ones, I did read that right. Since I read the revised version of the new rulebook. In that case, my opinion about liking the old system still stands, but the new system is good.

 

[subtlefuge]

I just hope that when we decide to change the rules back, or tone them down a tad, it isn't because a very good veteran, catches the banhammer with their teeth, because they slipped up one too many times throughout the years...

Very good or even a little bit good veterans won't get the banhammer, because even with strict rules, they are easy to follow.

 

[Weaver]

IMO Forum Health should not act retroactively.

 

[Spinwhiz]

Spoiler

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

My problem with that is I've had half of those chances skipped over. I'm in the yellow and I've only ever had one post break the rules. Never got any warnings, it was straight to probation the first time. So now anything I do is automatically a suspension, and even though that was quite a long time ago I'm 3 away from a permanent ban.

I would say to send in an appeal then. They have the ability to read your plead for change and change it.

You aren't addressing the main issue of the punishment system. You're asking us to slip as little as possible, but, being human, it's going to happen. You're also stating that, if we slip up eight times, it's going to result in a permaban. This is where I feel that the system wouldn't work. While there are a few individuals who would be able to keep that by only posting maybe once or twice a week and stating something about a game or two, this essentially puts a lifetime limit on a particular account.

I'm sorry, mate. I understand that you're looking at a rewards system down the road if we play nice, but you really need to consider bringing such a system in sooner rather than later.

Actually, there are members who have been here for years and have over 10,000 posts who don't have a single warning. Over 99% of the current posters don't have more than 2 warnings. It IS possible and should be if everyone respects everyone else. The problem comes in when people's attitudes get in their way and they get "mad". This is a text based forum, if something pisses you off that much, walk away. Even better, report, ignore and walk away for a bit. There is no reason someone should be warned 8 times to be respectful and not call others names. In a debate setting, you would be disqualified, in real life you could be arrested for verbal assault.

If people really want to be able to say whatever they want, in any way they want, there are a lot of places on the internet to do so.

These are exceptions, not the tendency, though, and you know it. People get angry and post things that wouldn't normally go there. Rationality doesn't come into play when people get angry enough. We're just not wired to work like that and people are going to make mistakes. Hell, people who frequent the R&P forums get warnings and suspensions fairly regularly, unless part of your goal is to filter out all but the maybe 3 people that frequent there that seem to be fine.

That specific area of this forum tends to inflame people more than any other part and, because of this, we are constantly getting new blood because of this.

I'm not saying that the record needs to be eliminated; far from it, actually. I'm saying that the frequency and the severity of the infractions needs to be taken into account when we're talking about punishment, otherwise you're asking people to be unrealistically saintly or quiet.

99% of the posters with less than 2 warnings is not an exception, it's the overwhelming majority. However, I'm not saying we won't implement a system to get strikes back. What I am saying is people need to hold themselves accountable for what they say and how they say it, regardless of who they may be. That isn't asking too much.

I realize that you probably aren't personally responsible for any of this so I apologize if it seems like everyone is taking out their frustration on you but I have something to add. What about people who make a post that gets them in trouble without realizing it? Like if they post their desktop background in a thread and then they get a strike for "Low content post" and they get a suspension even thought they didn't really do anything "bad", or if they make a thread that is similar to an other one because they didn't see anything like it on the first 3 pages of the thread list but little do they know that it is only because there has been a lot of activity and got pushed back. Then they get banned over a simple misunderstanding. I just want to re-iterate that I know you aren't the supreme judge of the internet and it could seem like we are making a scapegoat out of you and I'm sorry if that is the case, I just hope you have the answers to our questions.

I would ask them to send in an appeal if they haven't done anything wrong. Also, thank you for realizing that this is a site, and I didn't implement anything. We, as a company, did, with the help of the community itself.

 

[Spinwhiz]

So it's not that people can't discuss what is illegal, it is about advocating illegal acts.

I hope you guys understand just how many people on this site advocate gay marriage. Err, not myself, of course, wouldn't want to get banned. *shifty eyes* You might need to ban about 80% of the people I see posting in religion in politics though if you don't write in an exception, just something to consider. If it takes your fancy.

We aren't really worried about the gay marriage debates, however we will step in if needed.

 

[Internet Kraken]

So forgive me if this has already been addressed, but after 31 pages it's easy to miss something. I'm trying to understand exactly what you mean by this;

You are on probation. All infractions while on probation result in suspensions. The third infraction results in a permanent ban from the forums.

Going purely on what that says, anything you do that is an infraction against the rules, no matter how minor, will result in a suspension if you are on probation. That seems incredibly harsh. I thought the Escapist dictated what punishment you would receive more on what the actual violation was rather than how many times you've been in trouble. If someone were to make a single careless low-content post while on probation they would be suspended without question. I don't see that as fair at all. With how vague the rules can be and how much bias there is amongst community moderators, forcing such harsh punishments for even the most minor infractions doesn't sit right with me.

You say this is supposed to be making the forum better but I don't see how. All I see is a lot of confusion and pissed of members.

 

[Agayek]

I have no real issue or problem with the new rules, to be perfectly honest. I do, however, have an issue with a rule that's apparently been around for a while.

Specifically, the low content rule as relates to pictures. I've received a handful of warnings and/or probations for "low content" because I posted a picture that completely encapsulated everything I had to say.

It makes no sense to blindly throw moderations solely because there's a picture and no text. There's the whole thing with "a picture speaks a thousand words" and all that.

 

[Bobzer77]

The moderation has already turned from mature to nazi police state since I joined.

Can't get much worse.

 

[Bobzer77]

The moderation has already turned from mature to nazi police state since I joined.

Can't get much worse.

Here comes a warning!

Probation and I are like peas in a pod.

Which is weird as you can't really get any lurk moar than 700 posts in almost 3 years.