Poll: Nintendo's Quality In Consoles (i.e. Motion Controls and 3D)

[MasterV]

Why not take crap shots at Wind Waker too? Phantom Hourglass is largely based on Wind Waker's concepts, and has said "featureless ocean". Spirit Tracks I found to be entertaining because of the puzzles and obtaining new items, as they are some main appeals to Zelda I have. Exploring the "overworld" is limited to a single path which is what I hated the most, but I still found it entertaining to play.

Ohhh now you're stirring the beehive. I quite dislike WW. Let me see....I go through 1 hour to get my sword and then it steals it away and dumps me in a jail to play Metal Gear. Not good. The overworld is a flat blue texture, with some rocks protruding at 1 point in each square. The graphics were really plain, except for inside the dungeons. The saving grace was the combat. That, I loved. I could go on but I should stop now.

Listen here, enjoying the puzzles is all well and good but puzzles were merely a small part of the game way back when. Exploration, dangerous enemies, uses for items as weapons (not puzzle-solving devices or boss-beating thingies only), many many secrets. None of this exists in DS Zeldas, and I fear the same for Skyward.

You asked

Nintendo is still cranking out quality games, why do we lurk in the past and how things "used to be"?

I'll answer you honestly. Things used to be different. Used to be better. Used to be complete games, not parts of them missing. Zelda started out as an exploration adventure with perilous danger and has degenerated to a puzzle-solving trainwreck (pun intended). When one of the best software companies does blunders like these, it does not bode well for the industry.

You know what the problem is with Nintendo? They have an idea and instead of making a game, they make a half-assed job of it and stick a known name on top. It's like they're not really sure about themselves or they know what they make is shit and try to cover it up.

Examples:
Metroid:Other M, DS Zeldas, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Starfox DS etc.

These games could've been entire new IPs, they are mostly original games. Instead, they are burdened with a name which makes all the shit all the more apparent (or tasty for some people). Look at the past. Nintendo had the SuperFX chip. Did they do a polygonal Mario or Metroid? They created Starfox. They had Mode7. They made F-Zero.

Look at Rockstar. This is important because it's a very recent example. I'm not a fan of their games but watch this. They make a detective game....and don't call it GTA. It has nothing to do with GTA so they give it another name. Nintendo has long since stopped doing that, choosing to degenerate old favourites instead of making new ones.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

Why not take crap shots at Wind Waker too? Phantom Hourglass is largely based on Wind Waker's concepts, and has said "featureless ocean". Spirit Tracks I found to be entertaining because of the puzzles and obtaining new items, as they are some main appeals to Zelda I have. Exploring the "overworld" is limited to a single path which is what I hated the most, but I still found it entertaining to play.

Ohhh now you're stirring the beehive. I quite dislike WW. Let me see....I go through 1 hour to get my sword and then it steals it away and dumps me in a jail to play Metal Gear. Not good. The overworld is a flat blue texture, with some rocks protruding at 1 point in each square. The graphics were really plain, except for inside the dungeons. The saving grace was the combat. That, I loved. I could go on but I should stop now.

Listen here, enjoying the puzzles is all well and good but puzzles were merely a small part of the game way back when. Exploration, dangerous enemies, uses for items as weapons (not puzzle-solving devices or boss-beating thingies only), many many secrets. None of this exists in DS Zeldas, and I fear the same for Skyward.

You asked

Nintendo is still cranking out quality games, why do we lurk in the past and how things "used to be"?

I'll answer you honestly. Things used to be different. Used to be better. Used to be complete games, not parts of them missing. Zelda started out as an exploration adventure with perilous danger and has degenerated to a puzzle-solving trainwreck (pun intended). When one of the best software companies does blunders like these, it does not bode well for the industry.

You know what the problem is with Nintendo? They have an idea and instead of making a game, they make a half-assed job of it and stick a known name on top. It's like they're not really sure about themselves or they know what they make is shit and try to cover it up.

Examples:
Metroid:Other M, DS Zeldas, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Starfox DS etc.

These games could've been entire new IPs, they are mostly original games. Instead, they are burdened with a name which makes all the shit all the more apparent (or tasty for some people). Look at the past. Nintendo had the SuperFX chip. Did they do a polygonal Mario or Metroid? They created Starfox. They had Mode7. They made F-Zero.

Look at Rockstar. This is important because it's a very recent example. I'm not a fan of their games but watch this. They make a detective game....and don't call it GTA. It has nothing to do with GTA so they give it another name. Nintendo has long since stopped doing that, choosing to degenerate old favourites instead of making new ones.

The solution:

They need to make something new. And soon.

 

[TeeBs]

Nintendo gives you Motion Controls and 3D. You may call them gimmicks but what do you really want? Plain old controllers? No attempt at an advancement in gaming? HD and Blu-ray started out as gimmicks.

HD and Blu-ray were next gen from the get go.

Lol, that's like saying SSDs are gimmicks. (as if you even know what an SSD is!)

HD and Blu-ray were next gen off the bat. You know HD is just widescreen right? That's literally it. 1920x1080. We used to run in 1024x768/1280x1024/1600x1200 in 4:3 format vs the newest resolutions in 16:9 (1920x1080) or 16:10 (1920x1200)... Blu-ray offers 27 GB of space compared to the measly ~7GB of space offered by DVDs and less than 1GB offered by CDs. I didn't even mention the lack of audio codec compression that is exclusive to Blu-ray, as well as the read speeds...

But by all means talk like you know what you're talking about... even when you don't.


Nintendo didn't innovate anything as far as controllers go EXCEPT rumble. The rumble pack from the N64 was pretty sweet, everyone loved it, and it caught on and now every controller has it. Nothing else caught on though. Analog has been around since the 70s... it was just never implemented on a controller until around 1995 when Saturn put it on their analog pad. Then Nintendo brought analog to their fucked up controller design, and Sony adopted the Dualshock controller.

Regardless, Sony has kept pretty much the same exact controller design for around 16 years, Xbox changed theirs to mimic Sony's to an extent. Nobody copied anything from Nintendo in the last 15 years except rumble and that is literally it when it comes to controllers.

That should about cover it.

Insult me all you want, doesn't help you win an argument. Yes I understand HD and Blu-rays were next gen, its easier to point out the numbers and say thats just superior period, because your right they are superior.

But you can't just say motion control is inferior. Although its not visibly superior, its not too far fetched to say, maybe someday if not today, it can be a viable alternative. It ads a whole new dimension of control you can't get from a controller. Without getting a game that plays like QWOP.

Your argument about controllers doesn't make sense. Just because something has stayed the same for so long doesn't mean it shouldn't change, and you failed to explain to me how motion controls aren't innovation.

Yes I know what a SSD is.

 

[Ice Car]

OH YES, HOW CAN I FORGET TALES OF SYMPHONIA

Actually I didn't, I've been waiting to say it.

I honestly don't know where to start on how good it is. Though I don't know where to start on how BAD the sequel was...

Omg yes dude...the sequel made me cry. The main character emile was so unbearably annoying I couldn't control it. He was only cool when he was all ichigo form. How could they possibly have fucked it up? All they had to do was continue the story with the same game mechanics...ugh.

They did it for money or to shut up fans possibly... Though that is a harsh way to put it.

I'll start with cons and pros.

Pros:
Nostalgia
Revisit old areas
Old areas are redone
Free run in battles

Cons:
Iffy controls
Story suffers a very large blow to length and quality
Both main characters are extremely annoying
No more Robin Irving/Some Voice Actors were swapped
You can not control the old characters by default, must switch mid battle
Can not change equipment of old characters
Said characters drop from the party often
No overworld. This is honestly my most hated aspect of the game.
And more...

 

[Aura Guardian]

The quality of the stuff Nintendo has been putting out is as good as it has ever been. Whether you think what they're putting out is `gimmicky' is a completely separate issue.

And this post just said it all.

There was actually an issue I left out that I was going to mention but thought it was a bit touchy.

The repeated releasing of their oldest bits. I do think they need to start making something new. They can keep making Mario, Zelda, and Metroid, but I think they need to make something new.

Each time I read this, I am reminded of this picture

Spoiler

Seems Nintendo never wins.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

Nintendo made fire emblem radiant dawn. Anyone who claims they aren't they don't make core games should give that a try on mania and afterwards wipe their tears off, come back and apologize.

When was Radiant Dawn made?

Radiant Dawn/Path of Radiance cannot even compare to FE7/8... the stat growth is either starkly lacking for most characters, or they are on steroids (Ike)

I consider Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn to not be part of the FE family. Just 2 games I want to forget altogether.

I think Fire Emblem is a pretty cool guy. eh uses steroids to kick ass and doesn't afraid of anything.

hey I bet that was pretty funny back in 2008

Ah... I remember the days of terrible translations. I miss those days.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Eh. The Wii is one thing...

But 3D is hardly new for Nintendo. Seriously look up your history.

Virtual Boy...
Gamecube (yes, the gamecube has the ability to output 3D buried somewhere in it's hardware. It's never been used, but it's there.)

Now the 3DS...

It goes back quite a long way.

And no, duckhunt in 3D wouldn't have been as easy to do as you'd think.

For technical reasons, 3D is trivial once games are in '3d', but quite complicated before that.

When did '3d' become almost standard? N64/PS1 era.

about 95% of current games are '3d' from a technical point of view, they just throw out the depth information to be able to show it on a 2d display.

From that perspective, the 'gimmicky' part of 3d is that the display devices suck.
If that weren't the case, 3d games would be a no-brainer, because most of them already are 3d behind the scenes.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

The quality of the stuff Nintendo has been putting out is as good as it has ever been. Whether you think what they're putting out is `gimmicky' is a completely separate issue.

And this post just said it all.

There was actually an issue I left out that I was going to mention but thought it was a bit touchy.

The repeated releasing of their oldest bits. I do think they need to start making something new. They can keep making Mario, Zelda, and Metroid, but I think they need to make something new.

Each time I read this, I am reminded of this picture

Spoiler

Seems Nintendo never wins.

These days it doesn't...

Well...

I liked Super Smash Brothers Brawl. If only because it's SSB and because Solid Snake is in it.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

Eh. The Wii is one thing...

But 3D is hardly new for Nintendo. Seriously look up your history.

Virtual Boy...
Gamecube (yes, the gamecube has the ability to output 3D buried somewhere in it's hardware. It's never been used, but it's there.)

Now the 3DS...

It goes back quite a long way.

And no, duckhunt in 3D wouldn't have been as easy to do as you'd think.

For technical reasons, 3D is trivial once games are in '3d', but quite complicated before that.

When did '3d' become almost standard? N64/PS1 era.

about 95% of current games are '3d' from a technical point of view, they just throw out the depth information to be able to show it on a 2d display.

From that perspective, the 'gimmicky' part of 3d is that the display devices suck.
If that weren't the case, 3d games would be a no-brainer, because most of them already are 3d behind the scenes.

I meant Duck Hunt with wireless motion controls, not 3D.

But I do follow your points and they are very valid.

 

[Aura Guardian]

The quality of the stuff Nintendo has been putting out is as good as it has ever been. Whether you think what they're putting out is `gimmicky' is a completely separate issue.

And this post just said it all.

There was actually an issue I left out that I was going to mention but thought it was a bit touchy.

The repeated releasing of their oldest bits. I do think they need to start making something new. They can keep making Mario, Zelda, and Metroid, but I think they need to make something new.

Each time I read this, I am reminded of this picture

Spoiler

Seems Nintendo never wins.

These days it doesn't...

Well...

I liked Super Smash Brothers Brawl. If only because it's SSB and because Solid Snake is in it.

These days? They never could please anyone. Everyone would complain about them. And it's pretty sad that they get all the flak while games like Call of Duty get nothing. Maybe some hate. But not as much as Nintendo.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

The quality of the stuff Nintendo has been putting out is as good as it has ever been. Whether you think what they're putting out is `gimmicky' is a completely separate issue.

And this post just said it all.

There was actually an issue I left out that I was going to mention but thought it was a bit touchy.

The repeated releasing of their oldest bits. I do think they need to start making something new. They can keep making Mario, Zelda, and Metroid, but I think they need to make something new.

Each time I read this, I am reminded of this picture

Spoiler

Seems Nintendo never wins.

These days it doesn't...

Well...

I liked Super Smash Brothers Brawl. If only because it's SSB and because Solid Snake is in it.

These days? They never could please anyone. Everyone would complain about them. And it's pretty sad that they get all the flak while games like Call of Duty get nothing. Maybe some hate. But not as much as Nintendo.

Oh believe me. I complain about CoD and Halo constantly. Only reason I got Black Ops was the shut my friends up about it. It's not very fun. You go in expecting with a Title like Black Ops some damn stealth but it says, "NO! Now take that crossbow with exploding arrows and kill people." to which I reply by shooting it in the head with a silenced pistol and hiding away in the shadows....

 

[starwarsgeek]

Oh, another Nintendo complaint thread. Motion controls are cool when done right, the Wii is the best system Nintendo's released since the SNES, and the 3DS judgement is being made too quickly--weak launch titles didn't stop people from loving the 360 or PS3.

You know, working in Nintendo's business end must be the worst job in the world.

In the 80's:
You know, a huge flood of crappy knock-offs kind of caused a giant collapse of the entire industry in the US...it'd probably be best to use huge levels of control to keep the content clean and to stop big publishers from flooding the market.

In the late 90's:
Huh...people don't like censorship, do they? Well, I guess in retrospect that was a bad decision, even if it seemed reasonable at the time. Let's dump those regulations...what do you mean the third parties are already gone?

DS/Early Wii years:
Umm...we've brought in a huge number of new fans, but our older fans don't seem to like new things...apparently making Wii Sports means we've abandoned them. Did they even play Galaxy, Twilight Princess, and Brawl? Oh, and now they're mad that we aren't using extreme methods of third party control...

Late Wii:
Alright, we've released a stream of retro-style platformers...they're critically loved and bringing some old styles back to the mainstream....wait, now they're upset because we're using classic styles? What the hell do these people want?

 

[Aura Guardian]

Oh, another Nintendo complaint thread. Motion controls are cool when done right, the Wii is the best system Nintendo's released since the SNES, and the 3DS judgement is being made too quickly--weak launch titles didn't stop people from loving the 360 or PS3.

You know, working in Nintendo's business end must be the worst job in the world.

In the 80's:
You know, a huge flood of crappy knock-offs kind of caused a giant collapse of the entire industry in the US...it'd probably be best to use huge levels of control to keep the content clean and to stop big publishers from flooding the market.

In the late 90's:
Huh...people don't like censorship, do they? Well, I guess in retrospect that was a bad decision, even if it seemed reasonable at the time. Let's dump those regulations...what do you mean the third parties are already gone?

DS/Early Wii years:
Umm...we've brought in a huge number of new fans, but our older fans don't seem to like new things...apparently making Wii Sports means we've abandoned them. Did they even play Galaxy, Twilight Princess, and Brawl? Oh, and now they're mad that we aren't using extreme methods of third party control...

Late Wii:
Alright, we've released a stream of retro-style platformers...they're critically loved and bringing some old styles back to the mainstream....wait, now they're upset because we're using classic styles? What the hell do these people want?

So true dude. So very true.

 

[Hungry Donner]

For technical reasons, 3D is trivial once games are in '3d', but quite complicated before that.

Good point.

A while back someone released 3D glasses for the PC with an interesting twist, rather than expecting game developers to support this they did the hardware support themselves for every individual game they supported (since this was a single piece of hardware, and no an industry standard, the market was too small to expect developers to support it). From my understanding it was pretty good although I don't believe it lasted all that long.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

Oh, another Nintendo complaint thread. Motion controls are cool when done right, the Wii is the best system Nintendo's released since the SNES, and the 3DS judgement is being made too quickly--weak launch titles didn't stop people from loving the 360 or PS3.

You know, working in Nintendo's business end must be the worst job in the world.

In the 80's:
You know, a huge flood of crappy knock-offs kind of caused a giant collapse of the entire industry in the US...it'd probably be best to use huge levels of control to keep the content clean and to stop big publishers from flooding the market.

In the late 90's:
Huh...people don't like censorship, do they? Well, I guess in retrospect that was a bad decision, even if it seemed reasonable at the time. Let's dump those regulations...what do you mean the third parties are already gone?

DS/Early Wii years:
Umm...we've brought in a huge number of new fans, but our older fans don't seem to like new things...apparently making Wii Sports means we've abandoned them. Did they even play Galaxy, Twilight Princess, and Brawl? Oh, and now they're mad that we aren't using extreme methods of third party control...

Late Wii:
Alright, we've released a stream of retro-style platformers...they're critically loved and bringing some old styles back to the mainstream....wait, now they're upset because we're using classic styles? What the hell do these people want?

The people want something new, but they want to make it still comfortable and familiar. There is no real winning. Sorry Charlie Sheen. Wait. Why be sorry for Charlie Sheen? He seems to be doing okay.... I think.

But what I want is for a console with the best of all of their stuff. Good graphics, good inovation (Hey You Pikachu was pretty cool.), and just overall epicness.

 

[Chibz]

I'm sorry, but I'd rather the so-called "gimmick" phase then the absolutely retarded controller phase (see as: N64).

That is all.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

I'm sorry, but I'd rather the so-called "gimmick" phase then the absolutely retarded controller phase (see as: N64).

That is all.

I respect your opinion. Everyone's opinion varies.

My only problem is that I was born in the controller era. Naturally, motion controls and everything with that seem strange and weird to me. I guess it just has to do with what generation you are. The younger kids can embrace the Wii because they have no real point of comparison. And then others are just better at adapting. I'm not too good with adapting to the new generation of gaming.