Poll: Obesity as a Disease.

[Ranorak]

I'm currently taking a small break in writing a paper on my resent research.
Not going in too much detail, but it involves obesity.

Obesity has been the subjects of many studies for the last 20 years.
It's consequences are the leading cause of death in most of the western world.
And it's classified as a disease.

Now, I know many of you will disagree and will claim that most of it comes from a combination of eating too much and not getting off of your ass.

But studies[1,2] have shown that 40-70% of human obesity is caused by genetics. That matches the accepted genetic contribution to hight. Single genetic mutations can cause key proteins to lose part, or all, of their function, and therefore are unable to metabolise carbohydrates as well as healthy people.
In fact, knocking out those genes in mice will result in a obese phenotype.
Hypothetical, if I eat a bag of chips, I might convert 10% of the carbohydrates to fat.
While someone with such a mutation would convert 20% into fat. (these numbers are not representations of real metabolism)

Meaning that a normal diet would cause these people to become overweight.

Now, do you consider obesity a disease?
And yes, I know there are people who just eat a McDonald's every day, these are not really the people I'm referring to.


[1] Obesity and the regulation of fat metabolism, Ashrafi, march 9 2007, wormbook,ed The C.elegans Research Community, www.wormbook.org.
[2]Genetic approaches to understanding human obesity, Ramachandrappa, Farooqi, The Journal of Clinical Investigation, June 2011

 

[Kae]

I've never doubted that it was, besides I used to eat way too much, like I'd literally eat at least one of everything in a buffet, and I have never done much exercise, so when I was a kid I should have been obese, but since my genes are of slim people I never actually got fat [small](In fact I was, well still am so slim that you can actually see my bones, you'd think I never eat anything, though granted I don't actually eat much anymore)[/small], so I wouldn't be surprised if there are people that are the other way around.

[sub][sub]But seriously it was pretty funny when we went to the all you can eat buffet, since in addition to being so skinny I was also very, very short, everyone would stare at me dumbfounded as I ate dish after dish after dish.[/sub][/sub]

 

[hannya62]

Well, if it would be mostly genetics that caused obesity than look at figures from the past. If the amount of people with obesity is somewhat the same, than it can be attributed to genetics. If the numbers are different than there are other factors into play. Types of food we are eating, exercise etc. These are all things we can control ourselves.

I believe most obesity can be avoided in most cases through healty diet and regular exercise.

 

[Aidinthel]

I think the definition of "disease" is technically a bit broader than people generally use it, and that it actually includes pretty much anything that causes problems that isn't the result of direct physical injury.

 

[Hollyday]

OT: You've clearly studied it in more detail than I ever could, so I'll trust your research. I think it's pretty interesting, especially when I look at my family and how me and my siblings take after our parents in weight despite having very different eating habits.

I've always thought of it as a symptom rather than a disease, and more often a symptom of a mental disease than a physical one. If we consider addiction to be a mental disorder, then to be addicted to food in a way which affects your health can surely be termed a disease. Obesity would be the outward, visible sign of that disease.

On http://www.mind.org.uk/help/diagnoses_and_conditions/mental_illness?gclid=COmmkbaB-K8CFYXP3wodIjE1VQ bingeing and compulsive eating are said to be two of the most common mental health problems.

 

[Esotera]

It's still a disease even if some of it is genetic in nature. That still doesn't mean that people who are at risk can't carry out a healthy lifestyle to minimise their risk. And I'm fairly sure that the majority of patients who are obese can have it blamed on themselves, unless the human population has suddenly an increase in the number of mutations relating to metabolism.

 

[BringBackBuck]

I
But studies[1,2] have shown that 40-70% of human obesity is caused by genetics. That matches the accepted genetic contribution to hight. Single genetic mutations can cause key proteins to lose part, or all, of their function, and therefore are unable to metabolise carbohydrates as well as healthy people.
In fact, knocking out those genes in mice will result in a obese phenotype.
Hypothetical, if I eat a bag of chips, I might convert 10% of the carbohydrates to fat.
While someone with such a mutation would convert 20% into fat. (these numbers are not representations of real metabolism)

Meaning that a normal diet would cause these people to become overweight.

0% of human obesity is caused by genetics. As per your example: if you eat a bag of chips, you might convert a % to fat, someone else might convert a different % to fat. The fat still comes from eating that pack of chips. That is environment not genetics.

People (and all other living creatures) get fat when energy output is less than energy input, on an individual level, there is some small variation on the ability of the body to efficiently process energy input, and some bodies no doubt are more efficient with energy output, these small genetic variations are by no means the driving factor in obesity in the population. BMI in the population dropped during WW1 and WW2 as food was rationed and luxuries limited, and has increased at an alarming rate over the last 50 years, not because in 2 generations an abundance of genetic mutations has occurred, but because: McDonalds went from 0 restaurants to 30,000 during this time, and television sets in the US went from 6,000,000 in 1950 to 250,000,000 today, the economy has moved away from manual labour, everyone got a car, someone invented the internet, etc etc

In two generations changes in genetic mutations doesn't account for fuck all. The population ate millions of hamburgers, watched millions of hours of TV, drove millions of miles in the cars, surfed millions of pages on the net, and got fat.

 

[Luna]

But studies[1,2] have shown that 40-70% of human obesity is caused by genetics.

If the word 'influenced' rather than 'caused' was used then I'm sure I could agree with this.

That matches the accepted genetic contribution to hight. Single genetic mutations can cause key proteins to lose part, or all, of their function, and therefore are unable to metabolise carbohydrates as well as healthy people.
In fact, knocking out those genes in mice will result in a obese phenotype.
Hypothetical, if I eat a bag of chips, I might convert 10% of the carbohydrates to fat.
While someone with such a mutation would convert 20% into fat. (these numbers are not representations of real metabolism)

That example has no basis in science. If you eat a bag of potato chips, ZERO percent of the carbs will get converted to fat if you don't consume enough calories in the day so that it goes over your daily calorie maintenance intake. I could lose weight on Mcdonalds if I wanted to. I'd just have to consume less calories from there than what I burn everyday. I wouldn't even need to work out. There would be negative health benefits from only eating McDs of course, but I could still lose weight on it. Calories in vs calories out is the determiner of weight gain, loss and maintenance, not a certain percentage of something being converted to fat just because.


-I'm not advocating fat people attempt to lose weight on Mcdonalds because in practice its easier to consume more calories from fast food than from skinless chicken and brown rice, (its more filling), as well as the other negative health benefits, but they could if they wanted to, (they'd be pretty damn hungry if they have a very slow metabolism but it could be done.)


People who are obese have faster metabolisms usually. That's primarily the genetic factor of it. I mean I am certain that I could never ever weigh 300 pounds. I could not physically consume enough calories to go over my daily calorie maintenance level, (which rises as you gain weight - 250 pound person has to eat more than 150 pound person to gain weight assuming other variables are the same, and in many cases even if a lot of the variables aren't the same), so that I could gain weight to get to that point.

Meaning that a normal diet would cause these people to become overweight.

That's not what you said. You said obese. Overweight is not the same thing as obese.

If a 'normal diet', which I guess would be determined by society as 2000 calories, (which might make a chick fat more so than it would a guy), and it makes someone gain weight, then they simply need to consume less calories, unless they have some rare minority disorder that is used by some obese people in an attempt to justify their gluttony and/or lack of willingness to exercise.

 

[Crenelate]

I can understand a genetic influence causing people who have a reasonably normal, healthy diet putting on more weight than others. However, no reasonable diet will cause you to be obese. If you're getting too fat, eat a bit less, jog a bit more. I'm probably a stone overweight at the moment. Why? I eat loads of biscuits and don't get out enough. For about 3 weeks I cut out all snacks and then was quite ill and didn't eat much. I lost a fair bit of weight. You don't get fat by eating appropriately to your energy output.

 

[BringBackBuck]

If a 'normal diet', which I guess would be determined by society as 2000 calories, and it makes someone gain weight, then they simply need to consume less calories

Yeah, it really is that simple.
There is no such thing as a 'normal diet'. If you live in a cold environment and excercise a lot, than you need lots of calories to survive. When Dr Mike Stroud and Sir Ranulph Fiennes crossed the antarctic on foot in 1992/93, each man expended almost 7000 kcal per day, increasing to nearly 11,000 kcal during ascents..
If you live in a comfortable ar-conditioned apartment in the year 2012 sitting behind a computer 18 hours a day, and think that walking to the fridge to get a red bull is excercise, than you probably could survive on 800 calories a day.

The idea of how much a person should eat hasn't changed signifiantly over the last 50 years, whilst modern conveniences and lifestyle choices reduce our energy output. Therefore we get fat.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Eating too many pies is not a disease.

If you keep eating an excess of calories without burning any of it off, then of course you're gonna get chunky.

 

[Thaluikhain]

It's consequences are the leading cause of death in most of the western world.

I wouldn't be so sure. Obesity seems to be one of those areas where you're allowed to scare monger. Society has decided upon an ideal body weight, and anybody who doesn't confirm is to be reviled.

Yes, there are health risks associated with being overweight, but then there are will any number of things that don't attract the same bile. Motorcyclists, for example.

And, as mentioned, not everyone finds it equally easy to manage their weight. There are any number of things that can make that difficult.

 

[omega 616]

No and still no.

Well, let me clarify my second no. To me a disease is something you need medicine to counter act, this just means people with this genetic code (or whatever) need to adjust there diet and exercise accordingly.

 

[IndomitableSam]

I'm not sure it's a disease, but genetics are involved. The possibility of being obese is greater in some than others. I eat well - cook for myself, only buy pop/chips/candy maybe once a month as a treat, have veggies with every meal, etc, but am overweight. I've been overweight since childhood. I didn't eat well as a child, but walked 20 minutes each way to school (and home for lunch), played baseball, basketball, and roamed the streets on my bike. I was your typical active child. Then puberty, etc. Still walked to school and played baseball, but started filling out. Filled out all though middle and high school (still walked and played baseball). Have always been filled out.

I've accepted it now, and know I need more exercise - my diet could still be better but it's pretty good. However, my grandmother has like 7 sisters - and every single one of them has the exact same body shape as me. Tall and well-proportioned (ie top half and lower half are the same size) for being overweight, except for a spare tire around the middle. Every single one, including my aunt and second cousins twice removed, etc. And these women are all farmers (or were), so they were active their whole lives.

Again, I'm not sure if it's a disease, but it is genetics. Except now we're not as active as we were as a society, and we're eating a lot more processed things. I'm sure genetically modified foods don't help, either. (As I sit at my desk and eat my Chex...)

 

[manic_depressive13]

But studies[1,2] have shown that 40-70% of human obesity is caused by genetics.

That's a very large margin of error.

BMI in the population dropped during WW1 and WW2 as food was rationed and luxuries limited, and has increased at an alarming rate over the last 50 years, not because in 2 generations an abundance of genetic mutations has occurred, but because: McDonalds went from 0 restaurants to 30,000 during this time, and television sets in the US went from 6,000,000 in 1950 to 250,000,000 today, the economy has moved away from manual labour, everyone got a car, someone invented the internet, etc etc

Actually a lack of nutrition during the developmental phases of pregnancy causes changes in the foetus which result in greater preservation of fat after the child is born. When food is rationed during pregnancy the pregnant woman's body produces a baby designed to survive a life of scarcity. It happened that by the time the baby was born, the war was over. This lead to a children with a higher propensity to store fat and conserve energy, ideal for living in difficult conditions, being born into a life of plenty.

I'm not saying it can't be overcome. I'm just saying it's more complex than "people are eating more McDonalds now".

 

[Shinclone]

A disease? lol Obesity is the result of eating far too much and doing little to no exercise.
A classic case would be my old flatmate, a 20 stone (280lbs for the Americans) female who would sit on her arse smoking weed all day and stuffing her face and would say "I don't know why I'm so fat!" It's not a disease, if anything it's ignorance and plain old stupidity. Eating far more calories than you use will lead to you being a fatty, plain and simple.

 

[Brandon Logan]

Weight gain is 5% genetics.

 

[Tsaba]

saying being fat is a disease is simply an excuse for being lazy.

Everybody has to be a victim these days, "I'm fat because I have a disease." No, your fat because, you eat too much, don't have a job, and live in your mom's basement, now get outside and go play under the sun.