Poll: Obesity: fat people or true illness?

[dwightsteel]

Ok, this is a topic that I personally find myself talking about a lot. Matzy, I disagree on your last point. For some, it's not easily avoided. Weight has always been an issue in my family. I am, slightly obese. Fortunately, I don't fall under the people who are 400+ lbs, and have trouble walking without getting winded, but none the less, I can easily claim to be heavyset. Do to hormones and metabolism, there was no way for it to be "easily avoided" in my case. I do agree that obesity has no advantages, and that it's not beyond anyone to take steps to either correct or avoid it, but to claim that it's a simple issue is a narrow minded view. I've been eating better and exercising regularly, and hopefully one day, obesity won't be an issue for me, but for someone like me, the process is an incredibly slow one.

It's true that there are people blessed with speedy metabolisms, and that they manage to beat them and gain weight regardless, and I would also agree that frivolous lawsuits to places like McDonalds don't do obese people any credit, but not all obese people are like this. It's a stereotype like any other. People need to take a look at their prejudices against obese people, and see it as it is, a problem, a fixable problem, but one that isn't as clear cut as you would feel better believing.

I should point out that my above point on obesity is a generalisation as it clearly isn't going to be as black & white as that. Personally I think that anyone who is obese and is taking steps to try and change is certainly morally commendable. It's when people try to defend the obese lifestyle or pretend it isn't a problem which has led to the social stigma which, in some cases, isn't fair at all.

Don't worry, the only thing relating to your statement was that sentence. On that note, while I would never suggest to anyone that they should actively become obese (more weight then you're built for is unhealthy, no matter how you look at it), I know people who enjoy being overweight. I have a friend who's wife was initially attracted to him because of his size. He enjoys the lifestyle. I personally don't, but he isn't the only person I know who feels this way.

 

[shannon.archer]

'm saying the problem of obesity is a joke if we're talking about overconsumption. No matter how fit we are, no matter how little we consume too many people will lead to overconsumption.

So what are you saying??? Its cool to have a few fat people then a ship load of normal people. Yeah thats gonna work so well in the long term aint it. However that is besides the point as it is possibly the worst rebuttal i have ever heard as it has no standpoint. Fat people do consume more resources not only in referance to food but fuel, power, minerals, labour or anything that must be used furthermore just to suit it tothe disability of the obese. I am sure many people would rather see 2 and even 3 normal people alive then 1 fat person who appears to be wasting there lives on tv and too many snacks ie it is a choice not a disease. These people place there bodies under the strain of an excess of fatty cells becuase they find it easier to eat then get off their lazy asses and do something remotely active.

Yeah, that's not what sustainable means. Sustainable means that if we use the same farming practices we use today, will we still be able to grow food in the future.

ok
1. Wtf is non sustainable food. I mean name one farming practice that guarentees the extinction of that plant or animal??? I mean isnt that the point of farming.
2. If you are indeed referring to the over consumption of food hunted or gathered who says that all fit people eat that stuff and that all fat people eat only food that is farmed.??? Stereotype much.
3. you are completely avoiding the argument... again...

type "Petrarch" and "dark ages" into a search engine.

dont need to. I was using the stereotypical vision of the dark ages. What would you like me to say???. The great depression of 1930. Somehow your gonna pick me up on that cause it was really late 1920's to mid 1930's or some shit. If your gonna avoid the argument why bother placing yourself in the position to argue???

The latter.

Name one great thing and i seriously dare you. Name one great thing that has been down with people who are being supported to do it. It is not a sickness so why should they recieve sympathy??? If someone decides to get behind the wheel of a car completely drunk what is gonna persuade them not to??? Its the same with the obese, they are just killing themselves or at least taking that chance just because its easier then "catching a cab" so to speak. and by saying this you are acknowledging that obesity is in fact not a disease but merely a choice.

Instilling the same values we have in them that allow us to put the effort in to stay fit with gentle coaxing?

Those values can only be instilled after you break through their mindset of being obese. If you are unable to do that only those that are able to do it for themselves will stay fit which is not very high. "and by saying this you are acknowledging that obesity is in fact not a disease but merely a choice."

Actually, fat people cost less over their lifetime. They die early of cheap stuff like strokes and heart attacks. It's the fit people that die after years of medical attention:

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050029&ct=1&SESSID=1dee2c86b6a909ca39f60c34abf416fb

great so how should we have it. People who live their lives with an overall poor quality merely cause they are fat. Or those that live a full healthy life and live as shown to a greater age. The difference in quality between obese and healthy people is significant enough that in the end which one would you say you rathered? Healthy or obese... And anyways to start this off you support my side of the argument that obesity is not truly a disease but merely a lifestyle choice. as in the report many "obese" people do not die from obese related diseases but from other non related diseases which are the reason for the incurrent medical cost.

Wow--that's a reason for people not to breed. We'll have to make objects to suit them.

exactly. how many "fat" people have been to space? How many "fat" people climb mountains? How many "fat" people have bungie jumped or skydived? Why should the common have to go out of there way to suit those that choose to be that way especially when they should have no obligation to do so. just because a few people start yelling discrimination and then everyone who doesnt want to seem in the wrong jumps on the band wagon. This just goes to show further that it is a choice and that someone should just say "if you want to do this like everyone else and be equal chubby then lose some weight". BLEH CHOICE!!!

You should go talk to Matzy about that.

Why cause when a good argument comes up instead of accepting defeat you throw a tantrum and refuse to participate??? hmm

Exactly. Good should be shown to good people, even if nothing good comes from the state of their bodies.

What a radical concept!

What you think that making sure they have a healthy full life is not doing somebody any good??? It is a choice no matter whether you are a forty year old footy fan who likes there beer and hotdogs to much or a depressed single mother of two who when her kids are at school only leaves the lounge to find her next tub of icecream. no matter how you could spin it there is not way that obesity is anything but a choice.

 

[shannon.archer]

'm saying the problem of obesity is a joke if we're talking about overconsumption. No matter how fit we are, no matter how little we consume too many people will lead to overconsumption.

So what are you saying??? Its cool to have a few fat people then a ship load of normal people. Yeah thats gonna work so well in the long term aint it. However that is besides the point as it is possibly the worst rebuttal i have ever heard as it has no standpoint. Fat people do consume more resources not only in referance to food but fuel, power, minerals, labour or anything that must be used furthermore just to suit it tothe disability of the obese. I am sure many people would rather see 2 and even 3 normal people alive then 1 fat person who appears to be wasting there lives on tv and too many snacks ie it is a choice not a disease. These people place there bodies under the strain of an excess of fatty cells becuase they find it easier to eat then get off their lazy asses and do something remotely active.

Yeah, that's not what sustainable means. Sustainable means that if we use the same farming practices we use today, will we still be able to grow food in the future.

ok
1. Wtf is non sustainable food. I mean name one farming practice that guarentees the extinction of that plant or animal??? I mean isnt that the point of farming.
2. If you are indeed referring to the over consumption of food hunted or gathered who says that all fit people eat that stuff and that all fat people eat only food that is farmed.??? Stereotype much.
3. you are completely avoiding the argument... again...

type "Petrarch" and "dark ages" into a search engine.

dont need to. I was using the stereotypical vision of the dark ages. What would you like me to say???. The great depression of 1930. Somehow your gonna pick me up on that cause it was really late 1920's to mid 1930's or some shit. If your gonna avoid the argument why bother placing yourself in the position to argue???

The latter.

Name one great thing and i seriously dare you. Name one great thing that has been down with people who are being supported to do it. It is not a sickness so why should they recieve sympathy??? If someone decides to get behind the wheel of a car completely drunk what is gonna persuade them not to??? Its the same with the obese, they are just killing themselves or at least taking that chance just because its easier then "catching a cab" so to speak. and by saying this you are acknowledging that obesity is in fact not a disease but merely a choice.

Instilling the same values we have in them that allow us to put the effort in to stay fit with gentle coaxing?

Those values can only be instilled after you break through their mindset of being obese. If you are unable to do that only those that are able to do it for themselves will stay fit which is not very high. "and by saying this you are acknowledging that obesity is in fact not a disease but merely a choice."

Actually, fat people cost less over their lifetime. They die early of cheap stuff like strokes and heart attacks. It's the fit people that die after years of medical attention:

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050029&ct=1&SESSID=1dee2c86b6a909ca39f60c34abf416fb

great so how should we have it. People who live their lives with an overall poor quality merely cause they are fat. Or those that live a full healthy life and live as shown to a greater age. The difference in quality between obese and healthy people is significant enough that in the end which one would you say you rathered? Healthy or obese... And anyways to start this off you support my side of the argument that obesity is not truly a disease but merely a lifestyle choice. as in the report many "obese" people do not die from obese related diseases but from other non related diseases which are the reason for the incurrent medical cost.

Wow--that's a reason for people not to breed. We'll have to make objects to suit them.

exactly. how many "fat" people have been to space? How many "fat" people climb mountains? How many "fat" people have bungie jumped or skydived? Why should the common have to go out of there way to suit those that choose to be that way especially when they should have no obligation to do so. just because a few people start yelling discrimination and then everyone who doesnt want to seem in the wrong jumps on the band wagon. This just goes to show further that it is a choice and that someone should just say "if you want to do this like everyone else and be equal chubby then lose some weight". BLEH CHOICE!!!

You should go talk to Matzy about that.

Why cause when a good argument comes up instead of accepting defeat you throw a tantrum and refuse to participate??? hmm

Exactly. Good should be shown to good people, even if nothing good comes from the state of their bodies.

What a radical concept!

What you think that making sure they have a healthy full life is not doing somebody any good??? It is a choice no matter whether you are a forty year old footy fan who likes there beer and hotdogs to much or a depressed single mother of two who when her kids are at school only leaves the lounge to find her next tub of icecream. no matter how you could spin it there is not way that obesity is anything but a choice.

 

[Shadow5]

The thing is not all fat people want to change, some are happy as they are and that is fine. What gives me the shits, and I'm sure others will agree, is when fat people complain how it is hard to lose weight.
How hard is it?
I lost 12kg in a month and have been trying to put it back on ever since.
And even if people are ligitimately hampered by genetics or an illness, some decent lifestyle changes won't hurt!

If they can't lose weight because they can't change their lifestyle then they are clearly addicted to high fat, high carb, high sugar foods. Just as someone can be addicted to amphetamines.

 

[shannon.archer]

Matzy is awesome =D

 

[shannon.archer]

I am sure many people would rather see 2 and even 3 normal people alive then 1 fat person who appears to be wasting there lives on tv and too many snacks ie it is a choice not a disease.

I'd much rather see one fat person "wasting there lives on tv and too many snacks" than a normal person bringing more hate into the world by way of an internet message forum.

Let alone "2 and even 3."

I never said i hated obese people. However i just do not accept their feeble excuses and attempts to condone the abuse they put their body through. I dont care if the whole world was fat i just of course would not agree with it and probably turn into hitler trying to create a race of superior human beings but nvm that. what i dislike is how these people pass there problems onto their children instead of acknowledging their problems and making sure they do not happen to their children. It is the responsibility of the parent to care for their kids and they should be taken away if they are teaching them how to abuse their bodies just the same. WOuldnt they if the parents were drug addicts?

YOu can resort to pathetic personal attacks claiming i am bringing hate into this world. Most probably you are obese yourself but that is not my problem. When i see somebody who cant run 10m without borderline collapsing. When i see someone tripling their normal wieght putting undue stress on their heart and other vital organs. When i see fat parents walking with their fatter kids i will remember this is the world you and many others would accept without a single utterance to the contrary. I wouldnt see this as a glorious future for humans. I dont hate them. I dont even express ill emotions towards them. no what i feel is pity. Pity that they are missing out on a life where they could do whatever they want. Know how it feels to be at your best. To be able to do everything and anything you could ever want then realise you traded it in for a few extra meal servings everyday. That is what i feel towards the obese.

As an added note i am not talking about the elderly or anyone over the ages of 40-50 because that is an age where it is almost acceptable to let yourself go. No i am talking about kids, teenages and young adults that have so much to live for other then food. Food is a necessity not something to live for...

 

[shannon.archer]

i would also like to remark how this discussion has turned from is obesity a illness to is obesity immoral.

 

[shannon.archer]

I am sure many people would rather see 2 and even 3 normal people alive then 1 fat person who appears to be wasting there lives on tv and too many snacks ie it is a choice not a disease.

I'd much rather see one fat person "wasting there lives on tv and too many snacks" than a normal person bringing more hate into the world by way of an internet message forum.

Let alone "2 and even 3."

I never said i hated obese people.

You didn't have to.

again with the personal attacks. you know what you probs are fat cause only someone who is obviously being made insecure by such arguments would resort to such childish rebuttals.i also find your feeble attempts to maintain stature in this argument amusing. "you didnt have to." wow so powerful. I can really see how that has backed up your argument amazingly.

 

[awmperry]

Some people are fat because of medical issues, while others simply eat too much and don't exercise. I have every sympathy for the former, particularly those who try to change it, but none at all for the latter. If you're fat because you just can't be bothered to exercise, that's your own fault.

I've always had a slim build, but recently I've started getting a bit flabby here and there (Geek's Arse, I call it, a terrible condition arising from sitting at computers too much). It's annoying. But I don't try to say it's not my fault.

The key thing is that being fat isn't normal, it's not healthy, and it's not acceptable. It's excusable when there's a legitimate medical reason, but it's as unhealthy as being too thin, and the current campaign to make it seem acceptable is irresponsible.

 

[IxionIndustries]

As many others have said, I think there are several reasons, but mainly it's laziness. I don't buy the whole "But it's glandular!" trick..

All I know is that my weight won't catch up with me 'till i'm in my 40's, since my family heredity is nothing but a bunch of toothpicks.

 

[shannon.archer]

i am off this topic. special thanks to matzy for subjecting me to some wonderful arguments. i applaud cheeze_pavilion for a somewhat entertaining rebuttal. Bid you all well.