Poll: Out of the big 3 (Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony), who is the most anit-consumer?

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Why not be less biased and admit that Sony is simply not that competent? You already *KNOW* Sony has absolutely pathetic hardware engineers compared to the industry standard, why should we assume their software and security experts are good at their job? They are likely third rate. I am willing to bet the average knowledge, education, and experience at Sony is very much inadequate and quite cheap.

I agree that it is usually the consumer/user's fault for such incidents...but lets be honest. Occam's Razor applied here points the blame on Sony as well.

Gaming is about software, not hardware. It's actually bad to have your hardware different than the competition even if it's better as we saw with PS3. All you have to do is stick to the common industry architecture and at least be on the same power level as everyone else, and your system will be fine. Sony only has to make hardware on the same level as Dell "makes" hardware; assembling other people's components into a box. Even PC exclusive games hardly ever push graphics nowadays when they have more powerful hardware to work with. "Console" games push graphics more than PC exclusives now with the PC version just running at higher resolutions and framerates.

Again, I blamed Sony in opening post for getting hacked, what else do you want me to do?

Just stop talking. It's like listening to someone blame a rape victim. Sony's security is poor. I don't remember ever having other accounts stolen.

You don't know how it got stolen so it could've been a number of things, it could've your email got hacked especially if you ever sign up at a site with that email address, then use the same password for that site as your email's password. Thus, if someone hacks that site, they now have access to your email. Like most things, it's a case-by-case basis. I don't have a problem putting blame on anyone as long as there's some kind of proof. Even most company hacks aren't really the failure of that company's security, it's usually some employee that's being stupid that allows the hacker easy access behind all the security protocols; thus, most hacks are people hacks vs security hacks.

 

[Yoshi178]

yeah Sony can never do wrong even when they...

The hypocrisy of someone like you saying this to someone else is fucking palpable.

hypocrisy?

escapist members like the OP are always acting extremely sarcastic towards me saying things like "Nintendo can never do wrong" whenever they trash talk Nintendo and then i defend them.

i'm simply giving OP a taste of his own medicine.

Just stop talking. It's like listening to someone blame a rape victim. Sony's security is poor. I don't remember ever having other accounts stolen.

You don't know how it got stolen so it could've been a number of things

funny how you're desperate for Ezekiel to give Sony the benefit of the doubt when it comes to security and you're saying things like "it could of been a number of things"

Yet what were you doing again when people couldn't find Switches, NES Minis or SNES Mini's? oh that's right you were yelling about Nintendo and "artificial scarcity" at every possible chance you could get.

funny how when it's a Sony issue, you just change your tune and go all "b-b-but! it could've been a number of things! PLEASE give Sony the benefit of the doubt!"







What was that people like OP and Johnny Novgorad always called me? oh right the Nintendo Defense Force wasn't it?
Well respect is a two way street.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

funny how you're desperate for Ezekiel to give Sony the benefit of the doubt when it comes to security and you're saying things like "it could of been a number of things"

what were you doing again when people couldn't find Switches, NES Minis or SNES Mini's? oh that's right you were yelling about Nintendo and "artificial scarcity" at every possible chance you could get.

funny how when it's a Sony issue, you just change your tune and go all "b-b-but! it could've been a number of things! PLEASE give Sony the benefit of the doubt!"

Again, I put Sony's network security as an issue in the opening post, what else you want me to do? Most hacks of any company result from people hacks thus it has to be a case-by-case basis vs that company just has shit security. The big PSN hack that occurred points to Sony being at fault thus I faulted them.

Funny how Nintendo has these trends at constantly failing at the same thing over and over again. Either Nintendo produces a low amount of hardware and even plastic (Amiibos) on purpose or continuously underestimates demand. Even if it's the 2nd reason, they need to fix that shit because it's causing their customers to waste money buying from scalpers on eBay or waste time driving around trying to find the damn thing. I have a friend that's a huge Nintendo fan and collector, and he gets up really early on certain mornings trying to get certain Nintendo products, that's ridiculous to have to do that to get a product that should be plentifully available. Funny how supply isn't an issue with Sony or Microsoft. Nintendo is run like a toy company whereas Sony and Microsoft are run like electronic companies.

 

[Yoshi178]

Funny how Nintendo has these trends at constantly failing at the same thing over and over again.

Oh you mean like Sonys crappy security failing over and over again right?

 

[Yoshi178]

To be fair Yoshi, Nintendo are even worse than Sony at both Software and Hardware.

There is no ambition with them at all.

You say that, and yet Sony couldn't sell cardboard to people if they tried. Nintendo on the other hand...

 

[Hawki]

Fanboyism, in general, is baffling. That someone would take criticisms of a fucking company as if they were personal attacks on themselves is just...I just honestly don't get it. How sad must someone's life be, how little self worth must someone have, to feel they need to pin their personality and self-image on the public perception of a company? It's like someone taking it as a personal attack on their very soul when someone tells them, "Sorry, I prefer Pepsi to Coca-Cola."

Actually, I think it's pretty easy to understand. In this specific case, there's two areas to keep in mind:

-Games are expensive, not to mention the hardware to run them. If you're going to pump hundreds of dollars into this form of media, you'd want your purchase to be justified. The "PC Master Race" nonsense is the prime example of this as far as hardware goes (I spent over $1000 on a rig, bow before me your dirty console peasants), but in terms of software, you wouldn't want anything detracting from your belief that your purchase was justified.

-Even if you're not the one making the purchase, money being tight can be a determining factor. Casting my mind back to the console wars of the 16-bit era, you were pretty much stuck with a Genesis or a SNES (or I guess a TurboGrafix 16 if you were unlucky). Since you were stuck with one console, you'd want to make it clear that your console was the better option of the two, if only to reassure yourself.

-In terms of companies, I do understand that as well, and this could apply to anything. Suppose I like Company X. I like Company X because I like their stream of output. However, someone doesn't like Company X and criticizes it. On some level, I could be put off by this because if Company X acts on John Doe's criticisms, they may create products that I don't like anymore. I can certainly cite personal examples where a group has acted on criticisms that I don't agree with, and thus pushed out a product that is lesser in my eyes.

I'd like to think I'm a relatively calm individual who's mostly above fanboyism (though I'm sure people would disagree on this forum - that's fair), but I can certainly understand the mindset behind it. There's multiple pieces of hardware/software I feel defensive about on some level, but most of the time (I hope), I can simply stay clear of descending into a shitstorm.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Funny how Nintendo has these trends at constantly failing at the same thing over and over again.

Oh you mean like Sonys crappy security failing over and over again right?

Oh noes!!! Sony's social media accounts got hacked this year.

Why do you think the PS3's hardware is better than the Xbox 360's? Sure it had a faster CPU (not even for all possible cases BTW) but its GPU prowess was objectively inferior. And its RAM segmentation would lead to latency no matter how good you are. In all honesty, it was about equal in hardware power between X360 and PS3.

Then why is Sony so terrible at Software?
Why are they worse than even DELL at Hardware? You didnt answer me at all, you just are trying to deflect.

Just admit it. Sony can not do software not hardware. They can do nothing.

""Console" games push graphics more than PC exclusives now with the PC version just running at higher resolutions and framerates."

Is that why console games use medium settings?

PS3 exclusives looked a bit better than 360 exclusives IMO. Whichever system that did have an edge, it wasn't by much at all. PS3's architecture definitely hurt it with regards to multiplatform games.

What are you going on about? Sony can't make software but is one of the biggest publishers out there? Dell makes better hardware than Sony when both do the exact same thing? Plus, Sony has never made getting to a hard drive as difficult as some of Dell's laptop models that put the hard drive under the motherboard without a hatch on the bottom.

Name a PC exclusive game that fully takes advantage of PC's better hardware that can't be run on a console? Funny how a console exclusive can take home most technically impressive game of the year. Or that the best exclusive PC game last year, DOS2, can be easily run on a console and we'll almost certainly get a console release. Not that it really matters much as graphics don't make games great, but go on about your precious graphics while everyone over here is having fun...

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Funny how Nintendo has these trends at constantly failing at the same thing over and over again.

Oh you mean like Sonys crappy security failing over and over again right?

While Sony?s security definitely had its flaws, it?s more a case of them having a target painted on their backs which certain ?groups? took upon themselves to follow through on; most likely due to the reneging of some features they originally had on PS3 (Linux support being a big one). If anything has been proven these days it?s that anything that has a connection can be hacked [http://fortune.com/2017/05/17/reuben-paul-cybersecurity-hacking/]. The reason has less to do with ?security? than motive and ingenuity.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Why not be less biased and admit that Sony is simply not that competent? You already *KNOW* Sony has absolutely pathetic hardware engineers compared to the industry standard, why should we assume their software and security experts are good at their job? They are likely third rate. I am willing to bet the average knowledge, education, and experience at Sony is very much inadequate and quite cheap.

I agree that it is usually the consumer/user's fault for such incidents...but lets be honest. Occam's Razor applied here points the blame on Sony as well.

Gaming is about software, not hardware. It's actually bad to have your hardware different than the competition even if it's better as we saw with PS3. All you have to do is stick to the common industry architecture and at least be on the same power level as everyone else, and your system will be fine. Sony only has to make hardware on the same level as Dell "makes" hardware; assembling other people's components into a box. Even PC exclusive games hardly ever push graphics nowadays when they have more powerful hardware to work with. "Console" games push graphics more than PC exclusives now with the PC version just running at higher resolutions and framerates.

Again, I blamed Sony in opening post for getting hacked, what else do you want me to do?

Just stop talking. It's like listening to someone blame a rape victim. Sony's security is poor. I don't remember ever having other accounts stolen.

You don't know how it got stolen so it could've been a number of things, it could've your email got hacked especially if you ever sign up at a site with that email address, then use the same password for that site as your email's password. Thus, if someone hacks that site, they now have access to your email. Like most things, it's a case-by-case basis. I don't have a problem putting blame on anyone as long as there's some kind of proof. Even most company hacks aren't really the failure of that company's security, it's usually some employee that's being stupid that allows the hacker easy access behind all the security protocols; thus, most hacks are people hacks vs security hacks.

Why do you think the PS3's hardware is better than the Xbox 360's? Sure it had a faster CPU (not even for all possible cases BTW) but its GPU prowess was objectively inferior. And its RAM segmentation would lead to latency no matter how good you are. In all honesty, it was about equal in hardware power between X360 and PS3.

Then why is Sony so terrible at Software?
Why are they worse than even DELL at Hardware? You didnt answer me at all, you just are trying to deflect.

Just admit it. Sony can not do software not hardware. They can do nothing.

""Console" games push graphics more than PC exclusives now with the PC version just running at higher resolutions and framerates."

Is that why console games use medium settings?

Funny how Nintendo has these trends at constantly failing at the same thing over and over again.

Oh you mean like Sonys crappy security failing over and over again right?

To be fair Yoshi, Nintendo are even worse than Sony at both Software and Hardware. I am almost certain there are no engineers left there.

There is no ambition with them at all. If it wasn't for Nvidia's guidance they would have nothing all generation as they simply lack the talent or ability to make it.

General tasking was slower and far more cumbersome on Cell architecture, but its single precision floating point specs surpassed modern i7?s [http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ps3-playstation-3-linux-john-carmack,10035.html] at the time. Seeing as how games still mostly use SP, it was ultimately a great advantage if developers took the time to make it one. This is why a lot of higher end PS3 exclusives looked ?busier? and more visually complex than anything else on console, or even PC outside of RTS stuff. Things like Killzone 2, especially the mp, God of War 3?s titans, Uncharted?s dynamic object traversal and procedural terrain, etc. were far beyond what was ever done on 360, regardless of how much of it was due to the developers of hardware. Stuff like native 7.1 LPCM audio was also much appreciated.

But yeah, especially now the benefits of Cell have been overshadowed by the inefficiencies of its architecture; it was an exceptional number cruncher but ultimately not worth all the effort to yield the best results for most practical applications.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

To be fair Yoshi, Nintendo are even worse than Sony at both Software and Hardware.

There is no ambition with them at all.

You say that, and yet Sony couldn't sell cardboard to people if they tried. Nintendo on the other hand...

Pretty much; you can't look at stuff like Breath of the Wild, Splatoon, Arms, Xenoblade, and now Labo and claim they lack ambition. They are doing things that no one else thinks of, probably because, as their hiring process has revealed, they're not stuck up the collective ass of the gaming industry.

As for "anti-consumer" (whatever the hell that means nowadays), it's pretty much a tie between Sony and MS, mostly due to sheer incompetence. Sony has had REALLY bad hacking incidents in the past, the weeks-long PSN outage, the PS3 was a financial black hole that they still haven't really recovered from, and others. MS of course had the rushed to market 360 with the RROD and then there was their attempt to pander to 3rd parties with their XB1 DRM. A lot of these are just PR disasters that weren't good for their brands.

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

Actually on the PC thing ? to me PCMR means someone that loves modding, old games, backwards compatibility, emulation, the gaming art form in genera. Hardware is not relevant. Someone with a mid range 2004 PC that fullfils those requirements is PCMR. Someone with a 10 000 dollar PC that doesn't fulfill those requirements and disrespects modding or old games, is just a peasant.

I agree that the software PCMR is the real deal, wile the hardware PCMR just embraces the same fanboyism as the console pe..ople. Needs to be said again and again.

Silly fanbois. ,)

I didn't really think this divide still existed in any larger form, but I now realize that it is just hiding under the surface for the time being.

 

[Vigormortis]

You say that, and yet Sony couldn't sell cardboard to people if they tried. Nintendo on the other hand...

Pretty sure that says more about the cult-like mindset of the Ninty fans than it does of Ninty's ability to sell products.

I've seen Ninty fans throw temper-tantrums over how 'gross, unfair, and anti-consumer' premium DLC, limited-supply content, and loot boxes are, all the while standing in line waiting...hoping...to get their sweaty hands on one of the latest Amiibos.

Fanboyism, in general, is moronic. But Nintendo fanboyism takes on a whole 'nother level of hypocrisy.

 

[Hawki]

I didn't really think this divide still existed in any larger form, but I now realize that it is just hiding under the surface for the time being.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.1027450-Why-do-Console-Gamers-hate-mods-and-modding?page=1

Not really "hiding under the surface" when you can get asinine threads like this popping up.

 

[kilenem]

Microsoft seems like the only one with Real Anti consumer problems, if you buy a Sony or Nintendo product, it works. Microsoft knew about RRD and most Xbox 360's from launch don't work. As much as Nintendo is a dick about defending their I.P it seems like they do the least amount of work on defending their Hardware from modding. Which is nice because it breaths life into their products after Software isn't developed for them any more. Sony kind of sucks this generation when it comes to platform accessibility from moders but you use to be able to run linux on Playstation Hardware, the PSP was sometimes bought with the specific intention of modding.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Or forcing players to buy GBAs to play Zelda: Four Swords Adventures multiplayer?

I don't think you understand how multiplayer gaming worked in the past...

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Spoiler

Why not be less biased and admit that Sony is simply not that competent? You already *KNOW* Sony has absolutely pathetic hardware engineers compared to the industry standard, why should we assume their software and security experts are good at their job? They are likely third rate. I am willing to bet the average knowledge, education, and experience at Sony is very much inadequate and quite cheap.

I agree that it is usually the consumer/user's fault for such incidents...but lets be honest. Occam's Razor applied here points the blame on Sony as well.

Gaming is about software, not hardware. It's actually bad to have your hardware different than the competition even if it's better as we saw with PS3. All you have to do is stick to the common industry architecture and at least be on the same power level as everyone else, and your system will be fine. Sony only has to make hardware on the same level as Dell "makes" hardware; assembling other people's components into a box. Even PC exclusive games hardly ever push graphics nowadays when they have more powerful hardware to work with. "Console" games push graphics more than PC exclusives now with the PC version just running at higher resolutions and framerates.

Again, I blamed Sony in opening post for getting hacked, what else do you want me to do?

Just stop talking. It's like listening to someone blame a rape victim. Sony's security is poor. I don't remember ever having other accounts stolen.

You don't know how it got stolen so it could've been a number of things, it could've your email got hacked especially if you ever sign up at a site with that email address, then use the same password for that site as your email's password. Thus, if someone hacks that site, they now have access to your email. Like most things, it's a case-by-case basis. I don't have a problem putting blame on anyone as long as there's some kind of proof. Even most company hacks aren't really the failure of that company's security, it's usually some employee that's being stupid that allows the hacker easy access behind all the security protocols; thus, most hacks are people hacks vs security hacks.

Why do you think the PS3's hardware is better than the Xbox 360's? Sure it had a faster CPU (not even for all possible cases BTW) but its GPU prowess was objectively inferior. And its RAM segmentation would lead to latency no matter how good you are. In all honesty, it was about equal in hardware power between X360 and PS3.

Then why is Sony so terrible at Software?
Why are they worse than even DELL at Hardware? You didnt answer me at all, you just are trying to deflect.

Just admit it. Sony can not do software not hardware. They can do nothing.

""Console" games push graphics more than PC exclusives now with the PC version just running at higher resolutions and framerates."

Is that why console games use medium settings?

Funny how Nintendo has these trends at constantly failing at the same thing over and over again.

Oh you mean like Sonys crappy security failing over and over again right?

To be fair Yoshi, Nintendo are even worse than Sony at both Software and Hardware. I am almost certain there are no engineers left there.

There is no ambition with them at all. If it wasn't for Nvidia's guidance they would have nothing all generation as they simply lack the talent or ability to make it.

General tasking was slower and far more cumbersome on Cell architecture, but its single precision floating point specs surpassed modern i7?s [http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ps3-playstation-3-linux-john-carmack,10035.html] at the time. Seeing as how games still mostly use SP, it was ultimately a great advantage if developers took the time to make it one. This is why a lot of higher end PS3 exclusives looked ?busier? and more visually complex than anything else on console, or even PC outside of RTS stuff. Things like Killzone 2, especially the mp, God of War 3?s titans, Uncharted?s dynamic object traversal and procedural terrain, etc. were far beyond what was ever done on 360, regardless of how much of it was due to the developers of hardware. Stuff like native 7.1 LPCM audio was also much appreciated.

But yeah, especially now the benefits of Cell have been overshadowed by the inefficiencies of its architecture; it was an exceptional number cruncher but ultimately not worth all the effort to yield the best results for most practical applications.

You do realize there is a lot more to a CPU/GPU than Single Precision Floating Point? The CELL CPU has an advantage over the older Xeon but it is not enough to offset the GPU advantage of the Xbox 360 and the latency issues it has with its RAM split. Of course I will grant you, it depends on what the game is, in some situations the PS3 can win, especially if you code for all its strengths and around all its weaknesses.

As for it going up against PCs... the PS3 launched in late 2006. By March 2007 there was an FPS game outside its possible scope on PC, made on a small budget.

Funny how Nintendo has these trends at constantly failing at the same thing over and over again.

Oh you mean like Sonys crappy security failing over and over again right?

Oh noes!!! Sony's social media accounts got hacked this year.

Why do you think the PS3's hardware is better than the Xbox 360's? Sure it had a faster CPU (not even for all possible cases BTW) but its GPU prowess was objectively inferior. And its RAM segmentation would lead to latency no matter how good you are. In all honesty, it was about equal in hardware power between X360 and PS3.

Then why is Sony so terrible at Software?
Why are they worse than even DELL at Hardware? You didnt answer me at all, you just are trying to deflect.

Just admit it. Sony can not do software not hardware. They can do nothing.

""Console" games push graphics more than PC exclusives now with the PC version just running at higher resolutions and framerates."

Is that why console games use medium settings?

PS3 exclusives looked a bit better than 360 exclusives IMO. Whichever system that did have an edge, it wasn't by much at all. PS3's architecture definitely hurt it with regards to multiplatform games.

What are you going on about? Sony can't make software but is one of the biggest publishers out there? Dell makes better hardware than Sony when both do the exact same thing? Plus, Sony has never made getting to a hard drive as difficult as some of Dell's laptop models that put the hard drive under the motherboard without a hatch on the bottom.

Name a PC exclusive game that fully takes advantage of PC's better hardware that can't be run on a console? Funny how a console exclusive can take home most technically impressive game of the year. Or that the best exclusive PC game last year, DOS2, can be easily run on a console and we'll almost certainly get a console release. Not that it really matters much as graphics don't make games great, but go on about your precious graphics while everyone over here is having fun...

You also think the refresh rate of animations doesnt matter just because a console developer told you (likely thinking of how they do not need to account for high refresh animations since the console can never do them) so I dont think your opinion on technology or fidelity can be trusted. But yes, any edge for either system was fairly small.

CoD is one of the biggest games out there. Doesn't mean it is well made or has competent engineers working on it. Sony pays less than AMD or Nvidia or IBM or Intel. I dont expect it to have first rate software or hardware people, it is not logical for that to be the case, especially since it is Japanese to boot. DELL isnt first rate either though.

At the time STALKER. Nowadays, I guess Total War, Men of War, and Ashes of the Singularity to varying degrees but it is mostly due to the gigantic difference in CPU power between even low end CPUs ant a console CPU. I am unsure if that is fair as a comparison.

And lol. Horizon Zero Dawn looks worse than Battlefield 1 at Ultra, has amazing animations but no special groundbreaking technology to get them, worse sound processing than 2004 games (this BTW goes for all modern PC Games, it isnt Sony's issue, hell if anything PS4 has better than PC due to the usage of TrueAudio). It has bland and mediocre AI and mid tier physics simulation. The performance isnt playable either. It wins because its popular, not because it has true technical merit. There is nothing special happening with it. It isnt even as efficient as id Tech 6 at utilizing the hardware. This isnt even an assault on the game, just its technology

.

Your comments are rather peculiar. Is there a tally somewhere of all of Battlefield 1?s technical merits? Historically I?ve been under the impression that Frostbite is more about window dressing than actual depth, which is why it manages to look so good. Contrast that to a Thunderjaw [https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/296493/Making_Horizon_Zero_Dawns_Machines_feel_like_living_creatures.php] from Horizon, which alone took 18 months to get working in-game from initial sketch. I highly doubt any game asset from Battlefield 1 has that kind of physical detail, but feel free to prove me wrong.