Poll: Poker - Luck or Skill based game?

[Canid117]

A skill player will usually destroy a player who is relying on luck but if two amateurs are playing then it will probably come down to luck.

 

[Shock and Awe]

Well, you need to know when to hold them.....and when to fold them......

OT: Both, and poker player will tell you.

 

[robert022614]

i would say luck is a majority part of it. there is skill in the way you handle the cards you are dealt, but inevitably the other player just might have been dealt better cards. yes maybe you can bluff or know when to fold, but if im dealt a royal flush out of luck tell me how your skill is going to matter? i understand you can use your skill to understand i have those cards and fold before you make any big loss, but it is still a loss.

 

[51gunner]

Then explain why the same 20 people are winning the big open tournaments every year. In a single hand, luck has a lot to do with it, over a long period of time (even the course of one night) the skilled player will win nearly every time.

Only 20 people enter? Damned if I know.

 

[silentsentinel]

If it was based purely on luck, we would see random people at the World Series. Instead, we see the same people over and over. Either these people have been gifted by heaven, or they have skill. I'd go with saying that they have skill.

 

[bz316]

It can be either a luck-based or skill-based game, usually a combination of both. Someone can be exceptionally skilled in mathematics, allowing them to determine roughly the odds of one hand going their way, and some might be exceptionally skilled in psychology, knowing how far to push and play their opponents. At the same time, it's luck that determines which cards you get dealt. So, bottom line, its both

 

[asinann]

Then explain why the same 20 people are winning the big open tournaments every year. In a single hand, luck has a lot to do with it, over a long period of time (even the course of one night) the skilled player will win nearly every time.

Only 20 people enter? Damned if I know.

Most of those tournaments have over 1000 people entering.

 

[zehydra]

Well it's skill based because it's founded on luck and you have choices to make. Real poker is less about trying to win the hand as much as it is trying to figure out what decisions your opponents will make, and trying to influence their decisions with yours. It's a really psychological game.

 

[Dooblet]

you have to be skillful enough to get to the point where luck helps you

 

[Invaderbrim]

In my opinion it takes skill to have enough luck to win at it.

EDIT: Crap ninja'd by the guy above me

 

[PayneTrayne]

In the short run, luck. However in the long run of a game the money will flow towards the more veteran players. But one lucky hand can fuck skill right out of its place.

 

[Tjebbe]

In the case of hold'em an similar styles:

For any one single hand, it's luck (disregarding bluffs and tells for a second), you are calculating odds of possible hands against the ones you have

For 100 hands, it's skill, because the odds average out, and the better bluffer/teller/calculator wins.

Therefore the game as a whole is skill-based imo.

 

[hey_iknowyou]

From personal experience I would go with skill. I was in one tournament and had terrible luck. I kept on being dealt shitty cards the entire game, But through reading other players and bluffing once or twice I made it to 17 place out of 90 or so players. So all-in-all skill may not of won me the match but I would of been long gone without it.

Also I think it depends on the type of poker game being played. Texas hold-em imo requires more skill while 5 card stud or omaha is more based on luck.

Why do you say that stud or omaha is more luck based? Surely if you think any game of poker is skill based, than they are all skill based? I would argue that the cards average out for every player in any poker game so over the course of a session it boils down to who the most skillful player at that game is. This goes for any complex card game really I think. Hell, even the game where you each hold a card to your forehead that you can't see, then have a round of betting, then it's simply highest card wins. Since the chances are the same for everybody then I would argue that the regular winner will be the more skillful player.

 

[Denamic]

Where's the 'both' option?
The deal is luck, the game itself is about prediction through odds, 'reading' your opponents and fooling them in turn.
Hence skill-based.

I left out a both option as I figured it would be pointless having a poll since 90-100% of people would just go for that one.

I'm not voting until the correct option is available.

A poll where the answer is obvious is probably less pointless than one where all options are wrong.

 

[hey_iknowyou]

I'm not voting until the correct option is available.

A poll where the answer is obvious is probably less pointless than one where all options are wrong.

If you read my original post you'll notice that I have specified that I am more so curious which people think is the prevalent factor out of the two.

 

[apelsz]

Mixture of both. It takes luck to get the cards, but it takes skill to be able to know what to do and when to do it. Example:

Guy #1 has Ace 10, both hearts. Guy #2 has Jack 7, spades and diamonds respectively. Guy #1 bets 100, Guy #2 bluffs and goes all in. He needs luck to win, and he needs more skill, because bluffing and going all in is not a good move, I believe.

 

[anthony87]

Anyone who says luck is more important than skill has never played a serious game of poker in their life.

Basically this.

I play poker. A lot. I placed 3rd in a tournament and won $1,500. I've played in a number of tournaments, and I play with friends ( who know what they are doing) just about every week.

Luck is maybe 10% of the game, and that's a high number.

When I play with my friends, my buddy Ryan, his wife Nicole, and I usually end up winning. Virtually every game, one of us wins, and one of the other of us come in second. There are seven other people that typically play with us, although, not always one the same night. When roughly 90% of the winning in a series of games, goes to the same three people, it shows a clear demonstration that skill is more important than luck.

By the way, I need some money, and given the amount of people on this site who think that luck is such a big part of the game. . . would anyone like to play poker with me?

Yay! Someone else who actually understands the game!

I gotta say you make a pretty damn good point, although while I was reading your post I suddenly thought of something:

Online Poker,

Now while I'm not saying that there's no skill involved online, I tend to find that there's a higher degree of luck involved compared to playing a live game. Hell, I played a game on Pokerstars last night and pushed all in with pocket A's and got one caller with 7 9 off and he managed to get a straight and knock me out!

That's pure unadulterated luck right there.

 

[Aurgelmir]

I would say that it depends on what type of poker you play. Texas Hold-em has a lot more room for skill, while as 5 card stud is more or less always based on luck.

 

[amorpheus]

Also, estimaiting your chances is not luck, that is a large element of the skill factor.

Exactly my point - the skill involved is mostly about compensating for the randomness, so the "pure skill" idea goes right out the window. If I had to put numbers to it my estimate would be around 70/30, as in there's skill involved but the ultimate decider is always the cards chance gave you. (Note: There is also no guarantee for randomness to even out over time, and getting (un)lucky on a bigger pot can totally mess up any perception of it.)

 

[Laxman9292]

Doesn't matter if the guy holding the kings is a "world class poker player", he's fucked.

I feel this is where the skill comes in. being a good poker player, he would be able to read the opponents face, gauge their confidence in their hand, run through the odds, and use his own skill at bluffing to outmaneuver the other player. Obviously a more skilled player will not always win, but it is more likely, because poker is based hugely around skill at reading and controlling emotions while manipulating others, which is indeed a skill.