Poll: Questions about dating a Muslim

[Headdrivehardscrew]

The main reason is to not mingle with non-Muslims. Non-Muslims like, say, Christians, eat pork and prawns and scallops and other such delicacies, so Mohammed and his folks basically copy-pasted the Jewish rules... and made some more up.

This is factually incorrect.

Muslim Halaal food rules are from everything I've seen far more permissive than Jewish Kosher rules. There are no Muslim restrictions on shellfish, mixing meat and dairy, etc. The only dietary restrictions I know of are bans on pork and bans on alcohol. And as I understand it, any animal that is slaughtered Kosher is deemed to automatically count as Halaal.

It should also be noted that all of these dietary restrictions go out the window when they are impossible to fulfill. If a Muslim man is starving in the desert and the only food to be found is a bacon sandwich, it's totally okay. If a Muslim person lives in a country where Halaal food is unavailable, then they're allowed to do their best with it.

Well, as usual in cases like this one, the clearest answer is this: It all depends on... everything.

I cook, eat, live and interact with natural born and converted Muslims. So, that's pretty much all I am going on here. Personal experience. Boy beaten black and blue for participating in Christmas preparations; girl axed in the back by father for wearing make-up and dating non-Muslim boy; girl invited on family holidays, married against her will; My very Muslim Turkish friends coming over for dinner and talk, rare interaction with the very pious who do not usually interact with non-Muslims; etc. I really work on my very own little better tomorrow on this one, you see.

That, and having read the Quran a dozen times, back and forth, trying to keep tabs on sharia law and all the hadiths that mess up social life around me... my main focus is on the bits and pieces that are making life harsh for young folks in their teens around me on a daily basis, so my question at this point in time must be this: Where do you draw your knowledge and stance on the dogmas, teachings and merry sayings of the prophet Muhammad from?

Yes, there are easy-going Muslims that will accept kosher meat, but for strict Muslims that would mean accepting Jewish food, slaughtered/prepared by a Jew, which would instantly make it non halal, or haram. A Muslim with this mindset will insist on a Muslim butcher that pronounces the name of Allah while he slits the throat of the animal, which, to my best knowledge, no Jewish kosher butcher will do.

Oh, and RE: prawns (scallops, etc.):
Maulana Amjad Ali Azmi Al-Qadri (Hanffi) writes in "Bahr e Shariat" Part 15, Vol. 2: There is difference of opinion on shrimps being a fish or not and based on it, is the difference of opinion on it being lawful or unlawful. Apparently it does not look like a fish. It rather looks like a worm. So one should avoid it. ("Radul Mukhtar") [PS: "Rad-ul-Mukhtar is written by Syed Mohammed Amin Ash-Shaheerba Bin Abideen Shammi, may Allah's mercy be upon him (died 1253H.)]

Following is abstracted form "Sufficient Provision for Seekers of the Path of Truth" by Sheikh Abd' Al-Qadir Al-Jilani (Translation: Muhtar Holland) Vol. 2: In the words of Bakr ibn 'Ubaidillah (may Allah bestow His mercy upon him): "A man can not be truly pious [taqi] until he has come to be pious in a way he approaches the dining room.... According to Shahr ibn Hawshab (may Allah bestow His mercy upon him): "The truly devout person [muttaqi] is one who is ready to abstain from something that is quite harmless in itself, as a precaution against slipping over into something else that could be harmful" ?. According to Abu Yazid Bastami (may Allah bestow His mercy upon him), true devotion [taqwa] is: "Cautious avoidance [tawarru'] of all things that are of doubtful legality [shubuhat]?.

Shrimps (prawns) can also live outside water and no one calls it a fish in regular day to day language. But since the cautious scholars of the past have mentioned the discussions and given no judgment it is up to every individual to decide.

SHRIMPS (prawns) ARE A DOUBTFUL LEGALITY!

 

[Jordy Hartog]

Pretty horrific film. What's the reason for solely eating halal meat?

It's because back in the day before refrigeration, living in the hot desert, and not preparing the food correctly, blood stuck in bodies made the meat rot faster and people would get sick from it, similar reason why pork (and shellfish, I am pretty sure that's why they mean by scaleless fish, like the Jewish interpretation of it is.) are a no go, because they pose huge infection risk when not treated correctly.

And traditions stick around, especially when you get denied entry into heaven/afterlife because you didn't follow them.

Really interesting to see how hygiene at a certain point in time evolves into a cultural habit! Good info.

In fact, a lot of things that get associated with the Islamic faith these days is a holdover from various tribal customs that were in practice during the time and in the area where the religion originated. Circumcision is among these as well I believe.

 

[Korolev]

You better be ready to convert to Islam. There aren't that many cases of Muslims marrying Non-Muslims. It does happen, but it is extremely rare and I am 99.99% certain her family would FLIP THE HELL OUT if they found out that she was dating a non-muslim. This comes from experience of growing up in Malaysia, a Muslim majority nation. Now, I get along with Muslims. Muslims have never caused me any trouble, but they generally tend to be very strict on these matters. Dating her would be possible, but you'd probably have to pretend to be muslim in order to get along with her family, and depending on what family she has and where she lives, there might be hell to pay if her family catches her dating a non-Muslim man.

If she's cool with it and if her family doesn't mind (or doesn't know), then here are some general tips for getting along with muslims:

1) Don't eat pork around her nor should you expect her to eat pork
2) Be respectful of her religion (duh)
3) Do not expect her to behave like a "Westernized" girlfriend for the most part. If she is serious about her religion, then you need to make allowances for that. She probably will not go to the beach in a bikini. She probably will not go out drinking with you. You need to accept that.
4) Read up on Islam. I'm not a religious person at all, but their religion is fascinating, from an academic view. You should learn about the different factions of Islam - Islam pretends to be one big homogeneous happy family, but they're as divided and different as the many different christian churches.

And it really depends on where you live and where her family comes from. If you live in the USA, she might not take her religion very seriously, and maybe her parents don't either. If she lives in Rural India, chances are she takes her religion VERY seriously. Are her parents first generation immigrants, or were they born in a Western Nation? That can make all the difference in the world. A lot of muslims are VERY strict about their religion, but I've met a fair few that aren't. I've seen many Muslims eat pork when they thought no one from their family was watching. I've seen many Muslims drink and smoke when they were out with friends.

Meet their parents and get to know how strict they are in regards to their religion. If they are very strict, you'd best say clear or convert to Islam if you want to date this woman. If they're not so strict and fairly liberal, then go for it.

 

[rcs619]

Ok, I got a question. This girl and I have been friends for a really long time and I think we're both crushing on each other, so I'm planning to ask her out. The only real catch is that she's Indian and a Muslim, I'm not, and I've never really had any contact with Muslims because there's not many where I live (I have made sure she's Muslim, not Hindu). Are there anything specifics I need to know about dating one? I really don't wannna make a bad impression early on, especially to her family, by doing something they'd think was disprespectful. I know to stear clear of politics and a lot of current events near her family (even though me and her talk politics all the time, the different perspective is part of why I like her) but I don't know about basics like customs and courtesies. Any help from my fellow Escapists is highly appreciated, especially if you've had experience with this sort of stuff.

very respectfully,
sharkeyes

Honestly, it really depends on her and to a lesser extent, her family and upbringing. Muslims come in as many varieties, traditional to more casual, as Christians, Jews and just about every other religion around. There's also not just one group of "Muslims" either. There are a bunch of different sects, with their own variations in beliefs and traditions (kind of like Baptists, Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc in Christianity).

Really the best way you could probably handle it would be to just, ask her. Find out how devout or casual she is with her beliefs and what you can do to be supportive and/or avoid doing something rude or insensitive. Being open and honest about it would be better than doing a bunch of broad research and trying to wing-it with her (which could lead to you doing something insensitive even with your good intentions behind it). There's nothing wrong with admitting you don't know something, as long as you're willing to try and learn.

Also, you might want to learn a little about her culture too, not just her religion. That depends how much of her parent's culture she and her family actually adhere to, of course. Once again, nothing wrong with admitting that you don't know something. Worst-case scenario, you learn something new

Basically, just talk to the girl Especially if you two have been friends a while and trust each other. It's better than asking a bunch of random internet-people, poking around wikipedia and hoping for the best. She'd probably get a kick out of you caring enough to ask.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halaal

In Surah 5:5 of the Quran, it is written: "The food of the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] is lawful for you as your food is lawful for them."

If a given Muslim has biases that prevent them from eating Kosher food, that's their problem, not the religion's.

Are you aware of the problem/issue of abrogation in the Quran?

Surah 5:5 is very well valid and reading it gives me and my arguments hope and strength, but there are - almost in any case - other, oftentimes plain contradictory statements in other Surahs.

Take Surah 5:3, for example (Mosin Khan translation):

Sura 5 - Al-Maeda (MADINA) : Verse 3

Forbidden to you (for food) are: Al-Maitah (the dead animals - cattle - beast not slaughtered), blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which Allâh's Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering, (that which has been slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allâh, or has been slaughtered for idols) and that which has been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by the goring of horns - and that which has been (partly) eaten by a wild animal - unless you are able to slaughter it (before its death) - and that which is sacrificed (slaughtered) on An-Nusub [] (stone-altars). (Forbidden) also is to use arrows seeking luck or decision; (all) that is Fisqun (disobedience of Allâh and sin). This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâm as your religion. But as for him who is forced by severe hunger, with no inclination to sin (such can eat these above mentioned meats), then surely, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (3)

This is a very mild example of contradictory Surahs in the Quran, but still you can make out the one important bit in our little argument here: "Forbidden to you (for food) are: (...) and that on which Allâh's Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering, (that which has been slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allâh, or has been slaughtered for idols)".

Now, you might want to argue that "Allah" is equivalent with "God". Some Muslims might agree with you, but they would focus on Surah 5:5 anyway. Those that favour Surah 5:3 will clearly have to disagree.

Yes, there are those Muslims that will wish you a Merry Christmas, genuinely wishing you well and respecting your customs, but there are also those Muslims that will threaten these Muslims for 'mingling' and 'damaging' or 'disrespecting' their faith. Both read the same Quran, but they focus their attention on different Surahs giving opposing instructions on the very same subject.

Depending on who teaches you to read the Quran 'properly', you will be given 'the key'. The key will allow you to differentiate between the earlier, feel good Surahs of love, peace and happiness of Prophet Muhammad, and the later, more divisive and generally less tolerant and less friendly Surahs of Warlord Muhammad.

 

[direkiller]

Ah, but we're not just talking about hate, we're talking about ignorant hate. Of hating an entire group because of what only a portion of its members do.

But it's not just a portion

Factually incorrect. I even personally know Muslim women who refuse to wear head coverings and who think that whole deal is nonsense. Next.

Although it is unlikely that Mr Frankie will read this.(3-day ban and all that)

Figure I would just add a little facts into the mix

The wearing of Hajab(Traditional head scarfs) by in large is culturally enforced.

Places like Egypt,Indonesia,Jordan it has largely become a fashion accessories with designer scarves.

Very few places have it Lawfuly enforced(Saudi Arabia, Palestine,Iran). Far more have it banned in universities and/or government buildings). Including alot of country that would consider themselves Muslim nations.



That's not to say there is not some serious nut jobs that don't enforce it under penalty of death/beatings it is just rarer then most people think it is.

 

[Daveman]

Steer clear of 9/11 jokes. That's about all I've got.

 

[Grape_Bullion]

Ok, I got a question. This girl and I have been friends for a really long time and I think we're both crushing on each other, so I'm planning to ask her out. The only real catch is that she's Indian and a Muslim, I'm not, and I've never really had any contact with Muslims because there's not many where I live (I have made sure she's Muslim, not Hindu). Are there anything specifics I need to know about dating one? I really don't wannna make a bad impression early on, especially to her family, by doing something they'd think was disprespectful. I know to stear clear of politics and a lot of current events near her family (even though me and her talk politics all the time, the different perspective is part of why I like her) but I don't know about basics like customs and courtesies. Any help from my fellow Escapists is highly appreciated, especially if you've had experience with this sort of stuff.

very respectfully,
sharkeyes

Been dating my girlfriend for 3 years, basically the same situation you're in. Don't worry too much about the family for now, you won't be meeting them for awhile, unless her family is more liberal minded. In which case good for you! If that's not the case be ready to be called "her really good friend, who just happens to be a guy." This bit kind of sucks for the most part, but it's honestly for the better if you're not meeting her family if they're super religious/traditional. Personally, I haven't changed that much of my life, and unless she's very religious, you won't either. I mean it's part of being a boyfriend, making choices for you that make her feel more comfortable. Whenever I'm around her I tend to avoid all pork products, seafood, undercooked meat (Can't tell if it's haraam, or if she just doesn't like it), etc. Her family is going to know you're not a Muslim, so just be a normal boyfriend. Ostracized until you can meet their standards, or at least prove you're a good enough guy and their family member is dating a good person. Any questions, feel free to ask.

 

[Milanezi]

Everyone is different, she may be really religious and she may not be. Most Muslims do not eat pork and do not drink/smoke or do drugs. She may also not wish to have sex before marriage, and may be more conservative about things like holding hands in public.

Honestly the easiest thing to do is just talk to her about it, its easier than accidently upsetting her.

I agree 100% There was this Muslim girl in my classroom, but she wasn't very religious oriented at all. She even went to our Easter party, and when she was about to deliver the chocolates she'd brought everyone went around running screaming "SHE HAS A BOMB!!!" ahaha, we would joke around her that way, and she'd reply at us with the same "force", so, in her case, she knew how to take a joke and exact swift friendly revenge later on She even went to burger restaurants with us all the time.